EU+US Player from XP OFF asked for the separation

[FrozenWill]

15 minute bg ques for xp ON games. middle of the day on a saturday is that normal?

Levelers probably regretting not having twinks carry them on a daily basis and are probably already bored lmao

 

[Chops]

Didn’t say active my friend.
Besides, the Asian servers have an awful lot of video gamer players. A lot of video game players that are willing to blow a lot more gold than their western counterparts on WoW. Just look at the token prices. They average 2.5-3x US prices. (That’s a entirely different discussion).
The largest portion of the WoW subscribers is probably in the Asian countries. Thus making most of the Twinks part of the Asian countries. Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Free your mind and the rest will follow.

/cheers

I know the internet is confusing to you boomers, what with yall getting scammed out of your life savings every time a nice Nigerian prince asks for money but like...

You do know posts you've made before can be read, right? Like, they don't disappear.

 

[jcochran]

Mother of God, some of you bring out the cranky grandpa twink in me.

Look, "both sides" are correct about XP segregation issues. Yes, we should step up and organize in any given bracket if we want games. Yes, we should be able to play this game the way we want to play, and not have Blizzard hamstring our efforts to participate and pay for their game. Yes, gear does not equal skill, nor vice versa. All of these are valid points, and some of you keep trying to juxtapose them when they actually don't contradict each other.

The reality is, Blizzard once again separated queues because it was the quickest way to serve the greater good of the PvP section of the playerbase. Until Blizzard actually deploys better matchmaking such that it makes sense to desegregate queues and/or balances BGs with worthwhile bots, BG segregation is where we are and Blizzard is no idiot in doing this.

Yes, twinking will lose 90% of its community (again), but the loss of those thousand or so players (and have no doubt, it's not more than a couple thousand) is nothing compared to the several thousand that Blizzard will retain thanks to a better BG leveling experience (such as it is). Moreover, those several thousands are nothing compared to the hundreds of thousands who level outside of BGs, because make no mistake, the majority of WoW players do not PvP, let alone PvP below 110.

Yes, it sucks that twinking will lose people either unable or unwilling to put more time into this game than previously required. But if you want a better game, then advocate for what will help twinks and nontwinks alike. Crapping on Blizzard for taking our ball away or (worse yet) crapping on other twinks because they don't "play the right bracket" or don't "step up" reeks of self-entitlement and ignorance of the historically deep effort many brackets invested in their well-being, and hurts the very causes the complainers presume to support.

To be clear, it's early in the days of this second segregation, and a lot of players feel angry over their loss. I understand that and I empathize. We invest in our twinks in ways few other games allow for. As someone who's been around this bend before, I ask that you try not to take it out on your fellow players and see the bigger picture of what's going on. We'll make better decisions if we do.

You sir have the first post I've seen about the split that is actually reasonable. Thank you.

One thing a lot of people here need to realize is how much effort Blizzard has had to do because of complaints from the PvP community. Let's start at the beginning with Vanilla. Remember how Horde had Shamans while Alliance had Paladins? That was a deliberate decision by Blizzard so that each faction would have an unique feel. But that decision required Blizzard to balance Shaman against Paladins. And the result of this effort over all those patches? Well, there came Burning Crusade and Blizzard figuratively threw up their arms and said "Fuck it! We'll give both factions Paladins and Shamans." Then the battle continues. "Class XYZ is OP, nerf it!" Guess what people? PvE players are not making those nerf requests, PvP players are. And the patches continue, "Fear is OP! Nerf it!", "Class DEF is underpowered. Buff it!" This list goes on and on. Complaint and request after another. Sometimes to buff one's own class. Sometimes to nerf someone else's class. But those requests for patches and hot fixes are not coming from PvE players, but from only PvP players. In fact, many of those patches and changes at the request of the PvP community actually HARM the PvE community. The PvE community has no interest in nerfing other classes since their power is useful to the community as a whole in dungeons and raids. They may whine a little when some other class outperforms them on DPS or healing meters, but in general they don't really care. And finally when a sub community of a sub community goes too far and pisses off too many, Blizzard finally takes steps to isolate that sub-sub-community so the larger population is happier.

 

[Methical]

Yes, twinking will lose 90% of its community (again), but the loss of those thousand or so players (and have no doubt, it's not more than a couple thousand) is nothing compared to the several thousand that Blizzard will retain thanks to a better BG leveling experience (such as it is)

How can it be a better leveling experience when nothing has changed? in fact my winrate went up from 90% to 100% on my non twink characters. theres no difference if i'm graveyard farming on them in heirlooms or twink gear

 

[Allybeboba]

I know the internet is confusing to you boomers, what with yall getting scammed out of your life savings every time a nice Nigerian prince asks for money but like...

You do know posts you've made before can be read, right? Like, they don't disappear.

I said it once and I’ll say it again.
I have often observed those that make comments on other’s ages are the ones that seem to have the issues with there own.
BTW, that’s called ‘projection’.

/cheers

 

[Chops]

I said it once and I’ll say it again.
I have often observed those that make comments on other’s ages are the ones that seem to have the issues with there own.
BTW, that’s called ‘projection’.

I've observed that those who focus on off hand comments and jabs are uncomfortable with the direction the actual argument is taking.

BTW, thats called "deflection"

/chairs

 

[Burg]

Just feel like leaving my opinion cuz bored....

I like the separation

 

[jwl]

We're all wrong, you're right. Everyone is telling you what you came over as. Intended or not.

Many of us as many more years experience than you. We told you how things would go, not only did you tell us we were wrong but you took the piss. Stop being so pedantic and maybe you won't get blacklisted.

I never claimed to be the most experienced player. However, I have likely invested more time and effort into twinking than a fair 95% of users here. Not once have I said anyone was wrong. Nor have I said I was right: If you could comprehend things as intended, you'd understand that what I was stating is MY OPINION and MY THOUGHS - Not factual statements.
I was open minded as far as critiques, and appreciate the few who did have reasonable, civilized cases with me. Compare those individuals to yourself or the majority of others who cant handle unpopular opinions.

hmmmmmm

And if you must know, I was "blacklisted" for no reason whatsoever (possibly I was too entertaining?)
This is the conversation that got me removed. A trollish-banter between a friend & myself.
He and many others agree that I've done nothing wrong. However, My ban served its time & I have returned to 39s.

 

[Chops]

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I cared beyond the effort of just mocking you.

 

[Warglave]

I was "blacklisted" for no reason whatsoever

Everything I see in that post makes me sad at how clueless you are, friend.

 

[The Saint]

I never claimed to be the most experienced player. However, I have likely invested more time and effort into twinking than a fair 95% of users here. Not once have I said anyone was wrong. Nor have I said I was right: If you could comprehend things as intended, you'd understand that what I was stating is MY OPINION and MY THOUGHS - Not factual statements.
I was open minded as far as critiques, and appreciate the few who did have reasonable, civilized cases with me. Compare those individuals to yourself or the majority of others who cant handle unpopular opinions.




And if you must know, I was "blacklisted" for no reason whatsoever (possibly I was too entertaining?)
This is the conversation that got me removed. A trollish-banter between a friend & myself.
He and many others agree that I've done nothing wrong. However, My ban served its time & I have returned to 39s.

View attachment 10832

And it's every one else's opinion you did... I'll give you that you're entertaining though, just not in the way you like to think.

 

[jwl]

Everything I see in that post makes me sad at how clueless you are, friend.

Elaborate or shutup

 

[Bestworld]

I've observed that those who focus on off hand comments and jabs are uncomfortable with the direction the actual argument is taking.

BTW, thats called "deflection"

/chairs

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I cared beyond the effort of just mocking you.

@Chops stahp, you're killing me man, LMAO.

 

[Kirise]

How can it be a better leveling experience when nothing has changed? in fact my winrate went up from 90% to 100% on my non twink characters. theres no difference if i'm graveyard farming on them in heirlooms or twink gear

Nothing has changed for you. And indeed, any twink who solo-queue exploits into an XP-on BG or just throws on a set of enchanted heirlooms and levels through BGs won't see much of a difference, because the combination of gear and skill will outclass most levelers by that much. You're going to lead a blowout no matter what.

But while twinks show up in most integrated BGs, they rarely show up in segregated BGs. That reduces (though far from eliminates) blowouts. Add to that the fact that most twinks are not particularly skilled players (not trashing on twinks, just saying that the skill curve in twinking isn't much different than the skill curve for levelers), then it starts to make sense why Blizzard re-segregated BGs.

Bottom line: it is indeed a better leveling experience as long as we're not there, and far more battlegrounds happen without us now.

 

[Warglave]

and far more battlegrounds happen without us now.

Unless you mean without us physically in them that may be too early to say. Arent the queues longer? XPon?

Likely simply because of the patch, but temporary higher BG activity could be due to that too. I don't think you can claim there's more/less of anything just yet, because there's so many more factors than just re-segregation affecting the games.

edit- and on the other part I didn't quote, i'm sure it's not worse.

 

[Kirise]

Unless you mean without us physically in them that may be too early to say. Arent the queues longer? XPon?

Likely simply because of the patch, but temporary higher activity in them could be do to that too. I don't think you can say there's more/less of anything just yet, because there's so many more factors than just re-segregation affecting the games.

Good point -- I chose my words badly. I meant that a far greater proportion of games happen without twinks. True, the total number of games in a given time period have certainly dropped for now, so it's early yet to see the results of Blizzard's segregation. But I don't think there are many more factors beyond that. Lower- and mid-level class balance has been better this expansion than in any other time in the history of WoW (that I've played), and word isn't out yet that the segregation is back. Sure, forumgoers know, but they make up the minority of players.

 

[Warglave]

I meant that a far greater proportion of games happen without twinks.

After reading it again I thought so. Agreed. Much less chance of seeing us.

 

[LennywBT]

Good job Blissard. ☺

 

[Chops]

Arent the queues longer? XPon?

Maybe, but even if it is, you gotta understand the leveler mindset.

They BG between questing. It's a diversion for them. Going from a 5 minute que to a 10 minute que is just going from "quest, bg quest, bg" to "quest, quest bg, quest, quest, bg". Its not a big deal. Most of them probably wont even notice and even less will care.

 

[LulzSecz]

queues are perfectly tolerable, evidenced by the fact that people are continuing to queue despite increased times

If you look outside 19s, most people are abandoning their brackets. Even in 19s, it's not uncommon for queues to take over an hour. I prefer numbers over vacuous statements like "queues are perfectly tolerable". Queues do take over an hour at 19 outside peak times and literally don't pop in a lot of brackets, and this is a verifiable fact, unlike saying that "queues are tolerable".

war games did not solve the problem in the way that twink-only pugs solve the problem. war games took an insane amount of effort to form in comparison which turned a lot of people *who now have returned to play and queue pugs* away from the game anyway. ease of access to twink vs twink games is a huge reason why veterans are playing again

They took about 30 mins to an hour to form, usually. About as long as it takes queues at the moment during peak hours. Most of that time was spent standing around in Orgrimmar asking people from Warlords of Warsong to join. I wouldn't say "war games took an insane amount of effort to form". If this "insane amount of effort" did turn people away from the game, maybe they're just lazy, to put it in your words.

people are lazy and unskilled because they stopped playing as soon as queue time increased and games became harder to win, like literally people you'd constantly see in bracket have basically disappeared because they lost interest (as a result of generally being lazy and unskilled)

The same logic you used to criticize people who don't queue in PuGs (of them being too lazy) you used to justify wargames not being a suitable alternative. It seems hypocritical.

if you want to continue this convo please spare me the arrogant vocabulary it's literally insufferable and not really necessary in this context

All of the words I used are part of the English language, the language we're both writing in. If it was difficult for you to follow, that's on you not me.