Is the PvP trink BiS?

[Snowjobs]

on the other note yes if a paladin is any were near offence i would have pvp trinket . same if a bm hunter is on offenense and i feel that the team has significant stealthed burst or visible to take me down in the cooldown of a intimidate or what ever the cc.

my point is that of course dub agm and mm isnt biss in all situations thats why i have 4 diffent fc sets i choose from when i see a inc offence or i am running . but you cant say that there isnt a situation were agm and mm wouldn't be biss .

 

[Snowjobs]

Yes, lets look at percentages. Lets say that 30% of this bracket is made up of non-guardian druids and shamans (which from what I've seen is a little generous). Then lets assume that none of them are pandas or tauren. There is a 0.0059049% chance for your enemy team to have no cc that a druid would need to trinket. There is less then 1% of a 1% chance for that to happen, and that is not taking into account race. Then there's the resil on the trink (which I'm trying to find the thread in the 19s section about).

the math is

.3^10=5.9049*6^10
5.9049*6^10 * 100 = 5.9049*4^10
5.9049*4^10 = 0.00059049

my orriginal quote about that was me saying that in a all rogue / druid offence i wouldnt need to trinket anything.
i was not saying there isnt cc .

 

[Mesikämmen]

alright with shoulders on and pvp trinket i have 2.171 k in bear form 48.09 pvp damage reduc pluss 42.26 reduc from armor (melee) in dub agm and mm i have 2.421k in bear form with 43.23 pvp reduc and 41.19 reduc from melee
if im doing the math correctly 2171x 1.4809x 1.4226 = 4573.70722614 2421 x 1.4323 x 1.4119 =4895.90203977

if i have been doing the formula wrong the entire time pls let me know . if u factor in a extra 15 % from standard the difference is greater. but if you use wiskey the difference might be slighter .

"Ok so firstly to calculate this what you do is take 100% and subtract your resilience (48.33%). I got 51.67%. Now if you simply take your health (2218) and divide by the percentage you found (0.5167) you will get your real health. (4292)
"
2171 HP / 0,5191 / 0,5774 = 7243 EHP
2421 HP / 0,5677 / 0,5881 = 7251 EHP


So yes, even though your formula doesn't seem to be right, you are right that with MM + dual agm you get bigger effective hp. But the difference is a lot smaller, marginal enough that I would never hesitate a second to use resilience gear (loom trink + shoulders) over MM and dual AGM, because of the healing factor (resilience gets stronger and stronger over time, as you're receiving heals), and of course the insignia effect.

Mind you that I've been up for quite long atm, so please correct me if needed !

This is where I got my formula, and there's about 10 pages of posts from different people that came to the conclusion that the OPs formula is right. Just in the case you wanna check it out.

http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/f12/pvp-trinket-agm-fc-druids-41969/

 

[Snowjobs]

lol just read through that thread and all threads linked in that thread . thanks for that post now i just to adjust my gear sets a tiny bit

 

[Snowjobs]

Now heres another question though . if for some crazy reason i decide to fc in guardian spec . how do i encorperate that 25% base damage reduc into the formula

 

[Disco Stu]

this is going to sound like a troll post, but every one of you who claims Insignia is best in slot sounds to me as if they've never played in a battleground. in a duel/1v1, sure, but in a 10vs10 where nearly every class has a CC, the trinket is pretty ineffective in real situations. in theory, yes. in practice, you're not being intellectually honest by holding onto this woobie.

 

[Goesid]

this is going to sound like a troll post, but every one of you who claims Insignia is best in slot sounds to me as if they've never played in a battleground. in a duel/1v1, sure, but in a 10vs10 where nearly every class has a CC, the trinket is pretty ineffective in real situations. in theory, yes. in practice, you're not being intellectually honest by holding onto this woobie.

kill it before it lays eggs.

 

[Disco Stu]

kill it before it lays eggs.

how very 2002 of you. care to actually SHOW how being able to get out of a CC every 5 min is better than say having +10 hit all the time? i've made the point that nearly every class can and will CC you, you've made the point that you can copy top youtube comments.

 

[verh]

how very 2002 of you. care to actually SHOW how being able to get out of a CC every 5 min is better than say having +10 hit all the time? i've made the point that nearly every class can and will CC you, you've made the point that you can copy top youtube comments.

Your argument against the cc removing trink is that there is alot of cc?

 

[Disco Stu]

yes, if you read my post, i've already put it into perspective, but let me spell it out for you.

i used to use the pvp trink, but here's what invariably happens: stun, trink, sheep. why? because nearly every class has a cc and will use it, making your trinket almost useless in a 10 vs 10. this is why i said its useful 1v1.

was that too difficult or should i break out paint.exe and draw it for you?

 

[Swoops]

yes, if you read my post, i've already put it into perspective, but let me spell it out for you.

i used to use the pvp trink, but here's what invariably happens: stun, trink, sheep. why? because nearly every class has a cc and will use it, making your trinket almost useless in a 10 vs 10. this is why i said its useful 1v1.

was that too difficult or should i break out paint.exe and draw it for you?

And what about that holy shock/scatter/fear/shield or whatever you get off right after trinketing the stun?

 

[SallyG]

This just in. Trinket which removes CC is useless because there is CC in the game and someone will use them.

 

[Yde]

Hey, don't get too heated, please!

 

[Arkant]

yes, if you read my post, i've already put it into perspective, but let me spell it out for you.

i used to use the pvp trink, but here's what invariably happens: stun, trink, sheep. why? because nearly every class has a cc and will use it, making your trinket almost useless in a 10 vs 10. this is why i said its useful 1v1.

was that too difficult or should i break out paint.exe and draw it for you?

That's like saying you shouldn't do damage because your target has a chance to recieve heals.

 

[sungo is king]

lol

 

[Mesikämmen]

Now heres another question though . if for some crazy reason i decide to fc in guardian spec . how do i encorperate that 25% base damage reduc into the formula

Guardian only gets 12% reduction from physical and 25% from magical damage I guess you could count that in your EHP calculations the same way as armor + resilience, but I don't think it's necessary since these reductions are always the same, as long as you're a guardian. And btw, Guardian is a very effective FC spec if you have a healer, especially after 4 stacks it beats resto any day, but you must have a healer at all times, so that's the downside.

 

[Lil]

Disco don't bother arguing.. As long as 90% of the people believe that trinket is BiS then you will just be beating your head against a wall.. I wish this "debate" would have ended with

IMO -> even for druids its the BiS DEFENSE trinket(with the OP's qualifier that it's off cooldown). Fears and disorients is the whole point of the trinket.

I don't think you can really compare offensive trinkets to defensive trinkets when you're talking PvP. It's all about the situation. that means comparing this trinket to the haste trinket is a bit futile. (of course there's always the 'oh, well what about this situation, blabla).

all IMO of course.

as he seemed to be able understand MY point but oh wellz. Lets just continue to not be BiS Disco <3

 

[Disco Stu]

This just in. Trinket which removes CC is useless because there is CC in the game and someone will use them.

i've already responded to this logical fallacy...normally i like your posts, but this one is not only dumb, it's also unoriginal.

now, i've already said twice that in 1v1, the argument can be made that insignia is best in slot. somehow this keeps being missed and everyone is responding emotionally as if i used the 'n' word at the apollo. however, i've also pointed out that in battlegrounds, you're dealing with 10 opponents, most of them will have crowd control abilities, many will even have multiple CCs. someone please show me (because i'm obviously ignorant of this pvp secret you've all been hoarding) how it's smart for 1 guy with a trinket that has a 5 min cooldown compared to 10 guys, all using their CC's, which effectively makes the opposing teams ability to CC you virtually without any cooldown.

so, you've been CC'd, you pop your trinket, feel empowered and get a small endorphin rush from your brain for being so clever, then you're a sheep 2 seconds later. i can't help but wonder if at least some of the sarcasm (come on, a little bit maybe, big enough to admit it?) being thrown my way is because this has happened to you and you're questioning your staunch religious belief in this artifact you place so much stock in.

but hey, i concede...go on clinging to your woobie, when i see you in the battleground and force you to use it, i'll immediately CC you again (yeh, i'm one of those guys with multiple CCs) letting you believe that you're BiS while i dangle you like a marionette from my bow strings.

 

[Disco Stu]

That's like saying you shouldn't do damage because your target has a chance to recieve heals.

another logical fallacy....this assumes that damage has a 5 min cooldown.

pwnd.

 

[Arkant]

another logical fallacy....this assumes that damage has a 5 min cooldown.

pwnd.

No, it assumes that you should not do something because there is a chance that someone counteracts it.


Also, I can understand your point that the trinket is fairly useless for the players who just run from one CC into the other. For those of us that actually have the ability to avoid CC the pvp trinket does make a difference when we eventually have to eat a CC in a bad sitatution.