Who here knows the name of this guy's 60s?
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necroaqua
Grandfathered
I don't want to be dragged into the drama/popcorn side of this thread, but the xpoff queue aspect is always a good conversation.
An additional point to backup the great summary from chops is recruitment. Twinks retire and take breaks all the time. New twinks pop up all the time. But the majority of new twinks come from seeing existing twinks in action. You level up in BGs and see someone kicking ass at 39. You've still got another 80 levels til a mediocre endgame...or perhaps you could also kick ass at 39?
When queues are separated, that dries up. It'll be good for a while with competitive games (pugmades are great) - but twinks will retire or move on or go to college or what not. And few new twinks will be coming in. Even the new communities won't save it =(
jwl
FC - Pagle
That's a pretty fair point, but that's not how I was introduced into twinking. Not sure about everyone else
Chops
Soccer Dad
Our mindsets are formed by having gone through the exact scenario you’re talking about.
Yes, there are now in game communities. They make finding wargames pretty easy. But if you think that’s too much of a hassle, I have some real bad news for you about the amount of effort you’ll have to put into finding games 6 months after they separate twinks from levelers
Besides you’re making the same mistake we did back then. You’re forgetting that queuing into levelers grows the community. Most of the people in these forums right now are here because we got murdered by a twink, went “what the hell was that” and started researching. No exposure to thinking means less growth for thinking.
I admire your desire to get competitive games. I really do. And even though your white knighting for levelers is a bit cringey, it’s also admirable.
But your solution has been tried. Over the course of what... three xpacs? And it was a disaster for twinking. The community STILL hasn’t really recovered.
As much as folks don’t want to admit it, the solution is something that looks a lot like Legion templates and not like segregated BGs
Tonkks
Tônks
I havnt been able to get caught up on this thread.. at work. But seperating battlegrounds was one of the worst things that has ever happened to twinks in this game. I thought it would be a great idea. I was really looking forward to it being twinkvtwink every game, and not having to deal with the disproportionate leveler based teaming having a disadvantage.
This did not happen. What did happen- was a lack of queues. Everyone transferred to ruin battlegroup for a chance at a pop. We would get several games during “prime time” but that was it. This slowly decreased until most brackets had *zero* XPOff pops. For those of you that were not there or don’t remember- even the pugs we have today are better than just not queueing.
This would 100% kill off every bracket other than *maybe* 19 as it did before. Yes- twink only bgs would be awesome- but the reality is that games would never pop.
You have to keep in mind our community was MUCH bigger then than it is now. I can only imagine how bleak it would be if history were to repeat itself here.
This did not happen. What did happen- was a lack of queues. Everyone transferred to ruin battlegroup for a chance at a pop. We would get several games during “prime time” but that was it. This slowly decreased until most brackets had *zero* XPOff pops. For those of you that were not there or don’t remember- even the pugs we have today are better than just not queueing.
This would 100% kill off every bracket other than *maybe* 19 as it did before. Yes- twink only bgs would be awesome- but the reality is that games would never pop.
You have to keep in mind our community was MUCH bigger then than it is now. I can only imagine how bleak it would be if history were to repeat itself here.
Sponsor
Achievement Hunting
@necroaqua I think that that is exactly how a lot of twinks got introduced to this playstyle (as it was for me). Great insight.
@jwl
No one ever takes advice on this website since it always feels like an ego fight and refuse to see another perspective. But anyway... Wargames is your solution.
Cata through Legion twink-wise was dry as hell. I don't know if you played back then, but if you did you would know how bad it got.
At their worst 19s would only get pops on scheduled nights (and I'm talking only 1 game running at a time), and at their best we had 2 games running. AB was non existant.
Great so then you had "quality" games. But that's where the elitists come out. Bad players stand out like sore thumbs since they are taking up such a crucial slot in the few games you have. The HATE towards new players grows and segregation between awkward level twinks (level x0-x8) starts.
So let's say xp lock is back... again as many players who have loved through this period have told you...
19s only pop on scheduled nights - half your community disappears due to scheduling problems
20-29 would be the only thriving community due ONLY to f2p - 29s would bitch about how the f2ps ruin the bracket though cuz #logic
39s wouldn't exist
49s wouldn't exist
59s wouldn't exist ( I played one during that time) - don't kid yourself you can't even get another guild to wargame vs you NOW
60s gone
70s gone
80s gone
90 gone
100s gone
110 gone
Good job you just killed the entire WOW twink community by bringing back separate brackets.... AGAIN.
If only there was a way to get competitive BGs with only xp off players for quality and keep merged brackets. OH WAIT... WARGAMES.
You speak a lot about laziness being the reason we want to keep BGs merged but I could just as easily flip that coin towards you. You want to be able to get quality games by just clicking "enter bg" rather than take time advertising your guild LF games threads and searching for more twinks for wargames?
Also, your recent change in attitude seen through your posts and reports is only bringing you negativity and you're starting to remind me a lot of Voc's beginning of the end of his credibility. You can only stroke your own ego so much before you're simply tossed aside as a joke.
Take it as a reality check if you'll have it. You used to be a great poster but idk what happened recently my guy :/
@jwl
No one ever takes advice on this website since it always feels like an ego fight and refuse to see another perspective. But anyway... Wargames is your solution.
Cata through Legion twink-wise was dry as hell. I don't know if you played back then, but if you did you would know how bad it got.
At their worst 19s would only get pops on scheduled nights (and I'm talking only 1 game running at a time), and at their best we had 2 games running. AB was non existant.
Great so then you had "quality" games. But that's where the elitists come out. Bad players stand out like sore thumbs since they are taking up such a crucial slot in the few games you have. The HATE towards new players grows and segregation between awkward level twinks (level x0-x8) starts.
So let's say xp lock is back... again as many players who have loved through this period have told you...
19s only pop on scheduled nights - half your community disappears due to scheduling problems
20-29 would be the only thriving community due ONLY to f2p - 29s would bitch about how the f2ps ruin the bracket though cuz #logic
39s wouldn't exist
49s wouldn't exist
59s wouldn't exist ( I played one during that time) - don't kid yourself you can't even get another guild to wargame vs you NOW
60s gone
70s gone
80s gone
90 gone
100s gone
110 gone
Good job you just killed the entire WOW twink community by bringing back separate brackets.... AGAIN.
If only there was a way to get competitive BGs with only xp off players for quality and keep merged brackets. OH WAIT... WARGAMES.
You speak a lot about laziness being the reason we want to keep BGs merged but I could just as easily flip that coin towards you. You want to be able to get quality games by just clicking "enter bg" rather than take time advertising your guild LF games threads and searching for more twinks for wargames?
Also, your recent change in attitude seen through your posts and reports is only bringing you negativity and you're starting to remind me a lot of Voc's beginning of the end of his credibility. You can only stroke your own ego so much before you're simply tossed aside as a joke.
Take it as a reality check if you'll have it. You used to be a great poster but idk what happened recently my guy :/
jwl
FC - Pagle
That is because of the community we have, giving up. There is honestly no reason whatsoever as to why we cant get daily 10v10 games in any bracket (with the exception of 90s, 100s, and maybe 49s?).
I understand that everyone likes to just log in and queue, but its so boring playing rigged games on a daily basis. There are so many players who aren't even apart of their respected brackets in-game community pages. There are blizzard-groups for cross faction chat now. There truly, is no reason why we wouldn't be able to get daily pops Other than players losing interest / giving up. The queue times are longer than the games themselves these days.
Not a single person has yet understood the argument at hand though. You guys are just giving the perspective on how its going to affect xpoff play, when that is not what my post is about.
[doublepost=1547840389,1547839770][/doublepost]@Sponsor I played cata-WOD, Legion I was around for the end, didnt really play much because templates lost my interest completely. Quite frankly, cata by far holds the best twink PVP experiences for me. As I earlier mentioned, 40v40 AVs @70.
As far as my little gimmick goes (referring to my attitude), I am trying to have a serious conversation. Everyone (with the exception of a few) is trying to attack me through fallacy because they truly, cant hold up a credible argument here. I present myself appropriately plenty, while also giving you guys something to bite at. It varies on context and my mood.
And you cant flip that coin. I am constantly looking for wargames in-game, on discord and on these forums. Nice try though. I appreciate you taking the time to reply, where you did make a few valid points relevant to cata-legion, its overall not a great read.
I am just going to assume 99% of you haven't read the original thread, that provoked this lol. Because not one of you has yet comprehended the actual argument, you are all just talking about how its going to potentially affect twinking.
I understand that everyone likes to just log in and queue, but its so boring playing rigged games on a daily basis. There are so many players who aren't even apart of their respected brackets in-game community pages. There are blizzard-groups for cross faction chat now. There truly, is no reason why we wouldn't be able to get daily pops Other than players losing interest / giving up. The queue times are longer than the games themselves these days.
Not a single person has yet understood the argument at hand though. You guys are just giving the perspective on how its going to affect xpoff play, when that is not what my post is about.
[doublepost=1547840389,1547839770][/doublepost]@Sponsor I played cata-WOD, Legion I was around for the end, didnt really play much because templates lost my interest completely. Quite frankly, cata by far holds the best twink PVP experiences for me. As I earlier mentioned, 40v40 AVs @70.
As far as my little gimmick goes (referring to my attitude), I am trying to have a serious conversation. Everyone (with the exception of a few) is trying to attack me through fallacy because they truly, cant hold up a credible argument here. I present myself appropriately plenty, while also giving you guys something to bite at. It varies on context and my mood.
And you cant flip that coin. I am constantly looking for wargames in-game, on discord and on these forums. Nice try though. I appreciate you taking the time to reply, where you did make a few valid points relevant to cata-legion, its overall not a great read.
I am just going to assume 99% of you haven't read the original thread, that provoked this lol. Because not one of you has yet comprehended the actual argument, you are all just talking about how its going to potentially affect twinking.
Chops
Soccer Dad
That’s just it, man. People lose interest all the time. We have other hobbies, jobs, social lives, families, etc. People fall off and come back and change brackets and change games. That eventually kills brackets that have to schedule games.
You’ve got a really idealized version of how things are gonna go. And they really did go that way. For about 6 months. And then twinking nearly died and the only bracket with games was 29s because, get this, despite what folks around here say they really do enjoy farming levelers. Some brackets saw the occasional revival(s) but even the quality of those games couldn’t hold people for longer than a week or two.
This isn’t us “not getting your argument” but rather telling you that your idea has been tried and it was a miserable failure, for everyone. Even levelers, who stopped bitching about twinks and started bitching about enchants and heirloom gear instead.
Sponsor
Achievement Hunting
You'd be surprised. Not the first time someone has had this conversation. You aren't bringing any new points that haven't been mentioned before.
On topic of separated brackets...
"you think you want it, but you dont"
And I don't mind you rating my points as being a bad read, as I said... always stubborn ego fights here refusing to see the message being sent from a neutral point of view. My only advice to you would be to take advice from those who have been through all of this and more instead of putting up a front.
BUT HEY NOTHING WILL CHANGE FROM TALKING ABOUT IT HERE....
Also a reminder to all, don't know if intentional or accidental but this is an @thread.
On topic of separated brackets...
"you think you want it, but you dont"
And I don't mind you rating my points as being a bad read, as I said... always stubborn ego fights here refusing to see the message being sent from a neutral point of view. My only advice to you would be to take advice from those who have been through all of this and more instead of putting up a front.
BUT HEY NOTHING WILL CHANGE FROM TALKING ABOUT IT HERE....
Also a reminder to all, don't know if intentional or accidental but this is an @thread.
Blackberryy
TBC Classic
@jwl you are asking the handful of dedicated twinks to just accept that it is so easy to connect now etc. that’s great and super helpful, but you realize even with these features you will lose twinks. “Great now the casuals are gone”. No, that’s not great, casuals have friends and casuals become better and more involved with more play time. Now your looking at a sample size of active real twinks, awesome! This number Varys per bracket and is dependent on time, there are very few brackets where at any given time you can make a pick up wargame group. And even then, look, now you have a 10 man with 2 heals oh god the horde ques 4 healers, now you go 4 heals to even the game, but oh wait, there’s not 4 healers available or there are and you have 2 that are no good. Look at there now we are either queing at a severe disadvantage or not at all. All of these working parts still depending on people other than the ones your talking to right now across all brackets. What you don’t understand is no matter how much you convince us of your narritive, you still have the human element and variable that inevitably wittles at the community until it’s all but gone. I too qued through cata- wod and all of legion, I know first had that this happens and even with the great features we have it’s still hard to organize quality war games daily. Thanks for reading the rant lol.
jwl
FC - Pagle
These are all points that I have acknowledged and spoke on. You guys are acting as if I have not considered the potential downfall of this separation. I am not someone who has twinked for 3-4 months, who hasn't experienced the past expansions with dried out queue times. I've seen it all. I am just someone wanting competitive games, and we do have the numbers to get them going on a daily basis, despite what people want to think. It'd be easier than ever to organize too because we no longer have to use the internet. Blizzard has implemented cross-faction chat rooms & in-game communities. Where we can communication is much more efficient & convenient.
I'd be willing to sacrifice 5-6 shitty games every day, for 3-5 competitive games every week.
Blackberryy
TBC Classic
Tonkks
Tônks
Lol. Spoken just like everyone else used to say. Until those 3-5 weekly games became one a week. And then one a month. And then other brackets ceased to exist entirely. I watched it happen dude. Pugs arnt perfect- but they keep people playing. Even if you ONLY step foot in wargames, you should want to keep things as they are so your friends who will wargame still play their twinks
jwl
FC - Pagle
Please read my post. I am sick of repeating myself. I made a thread on the official Warcraft forum (provoked after seeing 3-4 other threads regarding the same issue). I am not catering to twinks. We are the minority consumer. I gave my nonbiased thoughts on how to make Warcraft a healthier, more successful game. That is the information blizzard actually wants. Yes, I stand by everything I have said, I would like more competitive games & there truly is no reason as to why we dont already have them going on right now. But please, comprehend what I am trying to say, before referring to past expansions as if I have not played them.
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