Replacing the old Code of Conduct with a New Twink Charter

Laurasia said:
I think warnings are important to helping people understand they made a mistake. I think a certain number of warnings should happen before a user is infracted. Then a certain number of infractions before a temp ban. Then a certain number of temp bans before permanent ban. Permabans should really only happen if absolutely necessary, as they can hurt a community.
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I'm well aware but your response has nothing really to do with my post though Laura. I just used "do x and you'll be banned" as an example. My point was it doesn't matter HOW steep or HOW strict punishments are or the CoC is if there is a complete lack of consistency in moderation.


It's not fair for two members to post the same things and receive two different interactions simply because a different moderator handled the report. That is the only point I'm trying to make.


Get rid of all of the subjectiveness and interpretation. It should be blatantly clear. It's like ordering something through amazon. You order an apple, you should expect to get an apple. Just because someone different shipped out the box doesn't mean that when someone orders an apple they should get a tomato simply because the person whom shipped out the box felt like it.


Predictable CoC and consistency is important. It's not right nor fair for it to be a complete guessing game all the time based off of who's going to be the one to open the report.


Could you imagine a world where all crime had no known punishment? Where you could kill someone and have no clue on whether or not you'll be in prison for 2 days or a lifetime sentence, or get off for free just because you're friends with the person filing the report and that was just the way it was?


If there's a cloud of obscurity with handling the CoC, it is 100% guaranteed that people will not be treated evenly nor fairly. If someone does x they should receive y no matter who that person is. That's the way it should be and that's the way it has to be. x and y are variables but that exact occurrence needs to be consistent with every member no matter popularity or relationship statuses....
 
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Flamer said:
You can say whatever you want but the chances that this will be achieved are slim to none.

Just look at the American legal system and political jurisprudence. At the end of the day there are going to be other factors like the moderator's personal views that influence the decisions/infractions that they hand out.

And don't try to act like your actions as a moderator reflect this vision. Stubs getting 2 infractions for calling someone bad and another similar action while plenty of other people making worse insults without receiving any infractions or warnings is not consistency at all. It just shows that your decisions were largely influenced by your personal vendettas.
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No response [MENTION=6446]Mocha[/MENTION]?

Couldn't come up with an excuse?
 
Mocha said:
I'm well aware but your response has nothing really to do with my post though Laura. I just used "do x and you'll be banned" as an example. My point was it doesn't matter HOW steep or HOW strict punishments are or the CoC is if there is a complete lack of consistency in moderation.


It's not fair for two members to post the same things and receive two different interactions simply because a different moderator handled the report. That is the only point I'm trying to make.


Get rid of all of the subjectiveness and interpretation. It should be blatantly clear. It's like ordering something through amazon. You order an apple, you should expect to get an apple. Just because someone different shipped out the box doesn't mean that when someone orders an apple they should get a tomato simply because the person whom shipped out the box felt like it.


Predictable CoC and consistency is important. It's not right nor fair for it to be a complete guessing game all the time based off of who's going to be the one to open the report.


Could you imagine a world where all crime had no known punishment? Where you could kill someone and have no clue on whether or not you'll be in prison for 2 days or a lifetime sentence, or get off for free just because you're friends with the person filing the report and that was just the way it was?


If there's a cloud of obscurity with handling the CoC, it is 100% guaranteed that people will not be treated evenly nor fairly. If someone does x they should receive y no matter who that person is. That's the way it should be and that's the way it has to be. x and y are variables but that exact occurrence needs to be consistent with every member no matter popularity or relationship statuses....
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You are making up extremes again to make your arguments more relevant. No one suggested to either have "2 days in prison or a lifetime sentence" but it is necessary to have the option to adjust the punishment depending on the severity of the violation.

It is a fact that, for example, manslaughter can give you anything from a fine to 15 years in prison. I have no idea why you are acting as if getting a different punishment for breaking the same rule under entirely different circumstances is completely ludicrous.

You are trying to create a CoC under the assumption that the staff is entirely incapable of making correct decisions.
 
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Conq said:
This is the most ignorant comment I've ever read on this website. I don't mean that as an insult, literally you must be unaware of a great many facts in regards to the harm Shane caused this community to believe something so outstandingly out of touch.

Myrm bought this site because of his passion, that and that alone is worth whatever he wants it to be.

People are being more vocal because myrms leadership has empowered them to have a say without fear of reproccusions, this has been evident since week one of myrms administration. You seem to be confusing this with something a bit more negative.

[MENTION=21235]Tacowarrior[/MENTION] by who?
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You sound like 19 twinks are your life lmao I can't take you seriously.
 
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Personally, I love how the site has been ran since myrm has taken over the reigns, very few complaints, and if there is a problem I know the people I can get in touch with to get the issue resolved.

The only issue with the site that I see from time to time is when new users try to get involved on TI, some people have technical difficulties getting their account started, issues with posting or having their acount verified.

The site has been flourishing in activity and I believe minimal to no change will keep that snowball effect.
 
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Mocha said:
Arkant Flamer


Hold on a second. It's unfair for two people to post the same things and receive different actions because the reports were read by two separate moderators. That's the only point I'm arguing and if you're arguing against that, you're really just arguing against me.
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Oh look, let's ignore the majority of the post again and declare that everyone is arguing against you as a person, how original.

You told us that there had to be certain, non-adjustable punishment for breaking each rule and I showed you that a CoC like that is completely unrealistic and impractical. It is also a fact that your punishment can vary depending on the court or judge that hands out your sentence and the only way to change that is to have a single court or to make laws that guarantee unreasonable punishments for the vast majority of the cases.

Do you honestly believe that every degree of toxicity or prohibited material should be considered as equal?
 
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Hotshots said:
You sound like 19 thinks are your life lmao I can't take you seriously.
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Yet another post demonstrating your lack of awareness. I work a full time job, I spend time with my family, i'm trying to build a professional grade E-sports league centered around 19, and I run a professional grade charity centered around 19s as well. So yeah, obviously. this real community is a big part of my life and I'm more than comfortable with that, I've never been happier, I care a great deal about this community and work very hard for its continued development.
 
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Conq said:
Yet another post demonstrating your lack of awareness. I work a full time job, I spend time with my family, i'm trying to build a professional grade E-sports league centered around 19, and I run a professional grade charity centered around 19s as well. So yeah, obviously. this real community is a big part of my life and I'm more than comfortable with that, I've never been happier, I care a great deal about this community and work very hard for its continued development.
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Lol my awareness is great ask anyone about my EFC cut off skills in the gulch. You're just butt hurt.
 
Allybeboba said:
Nah...
Facebook...
You get "likes" on Facebook don't you? Or MySpace(kek).


/cheers
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Yes, but facebook doesn't revolve around how many "likes" you get on a photo or post. It's mainly used to keep in touch with friends and family through the internet.

But then again I wouldn't expect old, balding soccer dads like you to understand this kind of stuff.
 
Mocha said:
Arkant Flamer


Hold on a second. It's unfair for two people to post the same things and receive different actions because the reports were read by two separate moderators. That's the only point I'm arguing and if you're arguing against that, you're really just arguing against me.
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You've yet to address my post. Your past actions contradict the argument you are now trying to make.
 
Flamer said:
Yes, but facebook doesn't revolve around how many "likes" you get on a photo or post. It's mainly used to keep in touch with friends and family through the internet.

But then again I wouldn't expect old, balding soccer dads like you to understand this kind of stuff.
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Baited and HOOKED!!! Wheee!!
I am proud to say I know absolutely nothing about Facebook and do not have a Facebook account.
I am also proud to say that I am indeed a "soccer Dad" as I do get involved in my children's lives. In fact, that involvement help send two of them to college so far. One of which is doing her dissertation right now. (Hint hint)
Sorry to disappoint you, but I am not bald. Whether I am "old" or not would depend on your perspective I would suppose. Because, a five year old may think you are "old". And a 60 year old may think that someone that was 90 was "old".
Keep trying grasshopper.

/cheers
 
Flamer said:
You've yet to address my post. Your past actions contradict the argument you are now trying to make.
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This is not the " Mocha prevented me from playing my characters because he gave me an infraction thread." I'm not here to explain anything to anyone.

However, thank you for addressing the same issue I'm trying to correct here... Did you see how obscure the whole thing was??? I mean I wrote the thing FIVE years ago when I was 18 lol. Literally everything in that was undermined by the fact that moderators = the CoC and the fact that it was SO subjective is why we had inconsistencies and people getting warnings and other people not. In 2013 Arkant received an infraction that I fully regret giving and apologized in giving him. However, had the CoC not been so subjective, my infraction probably would have been reversed immediately by another staff member. In staff chat there's an infraction thread section and we constantly read who is being given infractions and why and we often contradict each other in there.

You're bringing up the EXACT reason why I'm trying to fight for either NO COC or a completely CLEAR COC with 0 cloud as to what the boundaries / lines are and what you may get if you cross them.

Your post (that I did not see before) is now addressed. You may now continue living your life and you're allowed to play your 19 if you want to. I'll let you play your characters.
 
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As someone who recently returned to TI, I have to point out what I've seen. I can only speak for what I've seen on the 19s sub forums so keep that in mind.

I've seen forum veterans berate new comers and people who don't following the "meta" and express an opinion outside of the 10ish people TI worships. I've seen endless insults coming from the same people and yet are still be able to post, "Faggot" is a direct insult and I'm 99% sure that would not fly in outside of TI in most people lives'. People are only caring about the color of your name and not listening to anything you have to say. In the last few weeks people brought up stream threads being endlessly bumbed. [MENTION=6446]Mocha[/MENTION] made a clean thread and proceeded to be attacked by what looks like the most outspoken people on 19s because they didn't like the way he was a mod. A clean thread to fix an issue many people were complaining about turned into a hate thread that "veteran" accounts and vocal "mature twinks" used as an attack platform and even the bracket manager post in but doesn't seem to affect anything.

What it comes down to in my view is that the older and donation accounts don't want people changing things. They want everything to stay the same so they can keep using this for whatever they want. People wanted to be recognized by Blizzard but are now asking for RL money transactions again. People want to be taken seriously but few are willing to do it without stooping to insults. People aren't welcoming chance. You have the top 3-4 guilds who rule the TI forums, if you aren't in that they don't take any opinion.

My rant from a player who just logged back onto TI after being off a while.
 
Pvv said:
As someone who recently returned to TI, I have to point out what I've seen. I can only speak for what I've seen on the 19s sub forums so keep that in mind.

I've seen forum veterans berate new comers and people who don't following the "meta" and express an opinion outside of the 10ish people TI worships. I've seen endless insults coming from the same people and yet are still be able to post, "Faggot" is a direct insult and I'm 99% sure that would not fly in outside of TI in most people lives'. People are only caring about the color of your name and not listening to anything you have to say. In the last few weeks people brought up stream threads being endlessly bumbed. Mocha made a clean thread and proceeded to be attacked by what looks like the most outspoken people on 19s because they didn't like the way he was a mod. A clean thread to fix an issue many people were complaining about turned into a hate thread that "veteran" accounts and vocal "mature twinks" used as an attack platform and even the bracket manager post in but doesn't seem to affect anything.

What it comes down to in my view is that the older and donation accounts don't want people changing things. They want everything to stay the same so they can keep using this for whatever they want. People wanted to be recognized by Blizzard but are now asking for RL money transactions again. People want to be taken seriously but few are willing to do it without stooping to insults. People aren't welcoming chance. You have the top 3-4 guilds who rule the TI forums, if you aren't in that they don't take any opinion.

My rant from a player who just logged back onto TI after being off a while.
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Woosh.
 
Mocha said:
This is not the " Mocha prevented me from playing my characters because he gave me an infraction thread." I'm not here to explain anything to anyone.
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I've never once made this argument.

Mocha said:
However, thank you for addressing the same issue I'm trying to correct here... Did you see how obscure the whole thing was??? I mean I wrote the thing FIVE years ago when I was 18 lol. Literally everything in that was undermined by the fact that moderators = the CoC and the fact that it was SO subjective is why we had inconsistencies and people getting warnings and other people not.
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So you're admitting that you were the root of the problem and the biggest reason why that problem went on to cause so much trouble with the community?

You'd think someone that fucked up this bad would try to have nothing to do with any revisions being made after the fact.
 
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