potterfotter
Veteran
Some hpalas seem to ignore going slither scale in favour of going full plate, would full playe be superior vs alot of phys dmg?
19 Quick Start Gearing Guide [BfA]
- Thread starter necroaqua
- Start date
notoriousthf
Born US, Raised Mexican
Slither is definitely better, as there arent many high tier physical damage dealers to benefit from plate, but it's difficult without companions.
QuintusDrake
Veteran
Thanks for your guide, really helped me after I quit the game since Legion. Also, how come the AGM is unavailble? And which class is in your opinion the most OP? (I remember Survival Hunters having the most amount of overall DPS)
KyoTwinks
Veteran
AGM was GFd for this bracket. But it's not really important, only good for FCs mainly. And I guess for Hunts/Rogues that don't have Defending and Returning champ.
Atm, Balance Druid is king. Great burst, mobility, spread damage, stealth, basically immunity to slows, can dodge Polymorphs and good for FCing are the main reasons. But more balance druids are really not what the bracket needs rn lol
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necroaqua
Grandfathered
Glad you liked it. The quest for AGM got a level 35 requirement in a recent-ish patch. If you didn't already have it, its no longer obtainable. At 19 - the "OP" classes would be boomkin (high dot damage, solid burst, stealth, flag running), most healers (really high healing and also high damage with elemental force), and then perhaps arcane mages (easy to play with high sustained damage, but also has some CC/mobility that can make good arcane mages a nightmare). Theres plenty of decent specs though depending on your playstyle and if you play solo queue, in a group, or wargames.
See https://xpoff.com/threads/presumed-19s-comprehensive-tier-list.81152/ for a better breakdown of classes/specs.
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necroaqua
Grandfathered
Found a cool thing in discord (thanks to Alori and Knycks). Gargoyle's bite scales down below level 20. At ilvl 25 it requires level 17 and has 11str/3verse and slightly higher damage than executioner's sword. I need to add it to the guide after seeing where it falls with the BG crate weapon damage (along with verse weapons for survival dual wield).
Bodes well for other items possibly scaling down.
https://www.wowhead.com/item=12989/gargoyles-bite&bonus=3920
Bodes well for other items possibly scaling down.
https://www.wowhead.com/item=12989/gargoyles-bite&bonus=3920
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necroaqua
Grandfathered
8.1 is here and some updates are going to be needed. I want to let things flesh out a bit to see how things go, but here's what I'm looking at updating:
- Add more verse options to survival hunter. Specifically weapons. Will need to add to the summary to explain it.
- Add https://www.wowhead.com/item=12989/gargoyles-bite&bonus=3920 in. If anyone can post a picture of a BG crate 2h, that would be great so I can compare weapon damage. Not sure my warr has one.
- Runecloth Bandages have been nerfed. I don't cover much in the way of consumables, but I have a note about it that I'll need to remove or update with the new best bandage.
- New BoAs! While the cloak isn't better than dungeon options, most of the trinkets are going to be viable. Will have to add trinkets to every class/spec, so it'll take me a bit. Initial thoughts below:
- https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=166755/dusk-powder - First agi/str trinket at this level. BiS for all agility users. Warriors/Pallies will also like it, but may prefer something with stam/verse or haste depending on build.
- https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=166753/bolstering-war-horn - Highest amount of stam possible on a trinket. The active isn't too good. I'm guessing most classes going for stam would still prefer insignia and returning/defending champion, or both arena trinkets. But depending on the currency, this may be a good option for people without the arena trinkets. May also be a good FC druid option if insignia is on cooldown maybe...?
- https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=166754/battle-hymnal - While we already have an int trinket, this brings another option for the second part of the trinket. Arcane mages might still prefer the mana return, but I imagine this will replace an int trinket for many classes due to the active being slightly better. Still not a crazy good active, but its something.
- https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=166756/enchanted-warscroll - Crit on a trinket. While crit is 150% in pvp instead of 200%, this is still a solid option for anyone who wants to stack crit. I imagine most classes would prefer their primary stat or verse from the arena/void trinkets - I can see it being an option for destro locks and fire mages and...well, thats it really.
- Most of the other 8.1 changes seem to be class-specific stuff, which I won't really cover. And things like stam giving 10hp instead of 9hp (which is cool, but ultimately doesn't change anything as far as gear goes).
- Questioning whether mystic's wrap and mystic's sphere drop anymore. I may want to remove them and consider them similar to Ruffian's Belt or Black Widow Band.
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necroaqua
Grandfathered
I sure can. Each enchant section in the guide should link to here: https://xpoff.com/threads/19-quick-start-gearing-guide-bfa.79275/page-3#post-1107073
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necroaqua
Grandfathered
As holy pally, probably not. I'd either stick with ele force for damage, or use something like power torrent or pure spellpower for pure healing. Changing weapons incurs the GCD, and none of the buffs are powerful enough to make switching worth the loss of the GCD and the micromanaging (unlike say crusader/landslide/flintlocke for dps).
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necroaqua
Grandfathered
Post 8.1 Update:
TODO:
- Changing duel wield survival hunter to prefer hybrid verse over pure agility. Weapons is the main place in the guide that this shows, but a more specific guide is really needed to go into it. Would recommend BG crate armor of adaptable/quickblade over pure agility to maximize ranged elemental force damage. Thanks @Lateraldrop for research on this.
- Runecloth Bandages have been nerfed, https://www.wowhead.com/item=8544/mageweave-bandage is king now. I don't cover much in the way of consumables, but bandages are are covered in a note, which is now updated.
- New BoAs! Not terribly hard to farm, but can take a bit of time.
- https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=166755/dusk-powder - First agi/str trinket at this level. BiS for all agility users. Warriors/Pallies will also like it, but may prefer something with stam/verse or haste depending on build.
- https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=166753/bolstering-war-horn - Highest amount of stam possible on a trinket, but otherwise not particularly great. Added to resto druid as an option - but Returning/Defending Champion are definitely better. Insignia is also probably better. And the active of the battlemaster trinket is probably better too. So maybe for a stacks set when you don't have returning/defending champion but have lots of the darkshore currency?
- https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=166754/battle-hymnal - While we already have an int trinket, this brings another option for the second trinket. If you are currently using 2x discerning eye and don't have mana problems, you'll ideally want to switch to this for the slightly better active. But its a pretty minor upgrade. If you have mana problems, stick with 2x discerning eye (cough cough arcane)
- https://ptr.wowhead.com/item=166756/enchanted-warscroll - Crit on a trinket. While crit is 150% in pvp instead of 200%, this is still a solid option for anyone who wants to stack crit. I've added it to fire mage and destro lock, but honestly int is probably still preferred there.
TODO:
- Add https://www.wowhead.com/item=12989/gargoyles-bite&bonus=3920 in. If anyone can post a screenshot of a BG crate 2h, that would be great so I can compare weapon damage. My warr doesn't have one and the armory doesn't have exact stats on BG crate gear. Once I get that and can compare, then I can know where to add gargoyle's bite in.
- Questioning whether mystic's wrap and mystic's sphere drop anymore. I may want to remove them and consider them similar to Ruffian's Belt or Black Widow Band. Needs more research. If anyone has had a properly scaled mystic's wrap/sphere drop for them - please let me know. Prospector Chest/Legs are also in question. Note that this doesn't make them any less good if you have them, it just removes them from the scope of the guide as they would be GFd.
Lateraldrop
Grandfathered
I am going to do some research on warrior oh. I think that using a rppm chant offhand could be worthwhile because the consistency of price on rppm chants. I feel the proc rate of sader oh is very low. Might not be worthwhile but I know back in the day BiS chants for fury was sader/15 str.
Any suggestions on what rppm chants people are curious about let me know. I am going to start w ele force bc its proven to be strong and gale force striking bc personal curiosity.
Any suggestions on what rppm chants people are curious about let me know. I am going to start w ele force bc its proven to be strong and gale force striking bc personal curiosity.
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necroaqua
Grandfathered
Sounds good, let me know how it goes! I will say that gale force is an attack speed buff, not a haste buff, so it doesnt work multiplicatively with bloodthirst. So perhaps one of the haste enchants. Landslide might be RPPM iirc.
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necroaqua
Grandfathered
There are a number of threads right now about the PTR changes for 8.1.5. I'll sum them up quickly here, and will update the guide when it goes live, with what actually happens.
1. All stats to chest enchants are nerfed.
Glorious stats is still going to be the best stat option at +3. Since this is a global nerf, it doesn't change much in the way of balancing things. It means that +4 verse to chest might be considered, but 3stam/3primary is still probably better than 4 verse.
2. Quest blues scale to ilvl 25.
This isn't a huge change, but it might make a few quest items viable. Most of the quest blues aren't particularly great with secondary stats. Any many slots will have to compete with BG crate items (still ilvl 25). Its kind of annoying for many players who did quests for ilvl 23 gear, as those will NOT scale back up to ilvl 25. Random dungeon satchels remain at ilvl 23. We'll have to see what items become viable. For the most part it seems like they might gain ~1 stat from their current form. Most appear to be inferior to BG crate options. I think the main changes from this will be 2h weapons (more viable options and easier to obtain ones than the RNG involved) and perhaps some plate pieces that don't have many options (still probably worse, but easy to get).
3. Shadow Armor nerfed.
Agility users are going to want to switch from shadow armor (will be 1agi/3armor) to stealth (2agi/2dodge). Basically all agility users lose 1 agility. Also makes Gift of Verse not as bad as it used to be. 2agi is still more damage (equiv to 4-6 verse) - but going movespeed isn't as big of a loss.
4. Frag Belt damage nerfed.
While not part of the quick start guide, the grandfathered frag belt will still be annoying with a 3 second stun in a bracket with little CC, but now it deals 1/3 of its former damage give or take. Will make the bracket a bit more welcoming to new twinks.
5. ELEMENTAL FORCE NERFED.
Damage cut by about half. This is a big one. This nerfs so many classes/specs. Rogues, boomkins, arcane mages, survival hunters are going to see their damage drop. Dual wield survival is such a niche option that it may not be useful anymore (remains to be seen). Offensive healers will have their damage reduced (not a bad thing). Less viable classes will also feel these nerfs and be even less viable (WW/locks/enhance/etc). On the bright side, this may open up other enchants like landslide, dancing steel, +spellpower, and 12agi to 2H. We don't have any extra slow weapons to take advantage of PPM unfortunately.
We'll have to see what else gets hit by the nerf though, because it looks like fiery and lifesteal get hit by it, as they are possible replacements. Avalanche was also nerfed.
6. Incendiary ammo, frost ammo?, flintlocke, gnomish xray scope all nerfed.
Not sure what this is going to mean for hunters. Incendiary is an easy fire and forget item. Flintlocke still gives 30agi and gnomish 40AP, but the 40s ICD is annoying to micromanage and harder to justify at less than half the previous buff value. Another option is that BfA enchants can be used on ranged weapons, and can be used on ANY ranged weapons. So ilvl 25 BG crate weapons with ideal stats and slightly higher weapon damage can use those. The enchants themselves are meh, but depending on how nerfed the scope are...
7. Coastal Surge nerfed.
Still does 2/3 of what it used to, and an extra HoT is pretty nice still. +spellpower may compete in terms of throughput now though. I imagine it will depend on the class if the throughput or the hot is preferred.
8. Stats to bracer nerfed.
It used to show +1 on the tooltip, but give +2. Now it actually gives +1. Bracer enchants will likely switch to pure int/agi/str/stam/etc.
9. Crusader is NOT nerfed, still gives 100 str.
Warrior and ret are still somewhat limited classes, but their damage relative to everything else is going up. At higher levels, warrior is going to dominate even more than it already does. For 19s though, we'll see. Lack of mobility, slows, and spammable moves still mean warriors are vulnerable to kiting. A pocket healer is still highly recommended.
We'll see what actually makes it to live and if there are any other changes. Healers are going to be WAAAAAAY harder to kill. Warriors will be dealing more damage relative to other things, but still suffer from the same vulnerabilities. Some minor enchant changes to armor might be needed, but the weapon enchants are going to shake things up. We'll need to dust off some of those old enchants to see what sticks. +9 Spellpower might be comparable throughput for casters. Landslide, mongoose, and dancing steel will need to be tested. Some of the Cata/Wrath enchants with PPM or ICD style enchants might be worth looking into.
1. All stats to chest enchants are nerfed.
Glorious stats is still going to be the best stat option at +3. Since this is a global nerf, it doesn't change much in the way of balancing things. It means that +4 verse to chest might be considered, but 3stam/3primary is still probably better than 4 verse.
2. Quest blues scale to ilvl 25.
This isn't a huge change, but it might make a few quest items viable. Most of the quest blues aren't particularly great with secondary stats. Any many slots will have to compete with BG crate items (still ilvl 25). Its kind of annoying for many players who did quests for ilvl 23 gear, as those will NOT scale back up to ilvl 25. Random dungeon satchels remain at ilvl 23. We'll have to see what items become viable. For the most part it seems like they might gain ~1 stat from their current form. Most appear to be inferior to BG crate options. I think the main changes from this will be 2h weapons (more viable options and easier to obtain ones than the RNG involved) and perhaps some plate pieces that don't have many options (still probably worse, but easy to get).
3. Shadow Armor nerfed.
Agility users are going to want to switch from shadow armor (will be 1agi/3armor) to stealth (2agi/2dodge). Basically all agility users lose 1 agility. Also makes Gift of Verse not as bad as it used to be. 2agi is still more damage (equiv to 4-6 verse) - but going movespeed isn't as big of a loss.
4. Frag Belt damage nerfed.
While not part of the quick start guide, the grandfathered frag belt will still be annoying with a 3 second stun in a bracket with little CC, but now it deals 1/3 of its former damage give or take. Will make the bracket a bit more welcoming to new twinks.
5. ELEMENTAL FORCE NERFED.
Damage cut by about half. This is a big one. This nerfs so many classes/specs. Rogues, boomkins, arcane mages, survival hunters are going to see their damage drop. Dual wield survival is such a niche option that it may not be useful anymore (remains to be seen). Offensive healers will have their damage reduced (not a bad thing). Less viable classes will also feel these nerfs and be even less viable (WW/locks/enhance/etc). On the bright side, this may open up other enchants like landslide, dancing steel, +spellpower, and 12agi to 2H. We don't have any extra slow weapons to take advantage of PPM unfortunately.
We'll have to see what else gets hit by the nerf though, because it looks like fiery and lifesteal get hit by it, as they are possible replacements. Avalanche was also nerfed.
6. Incendiary ammo, frost ammo?, flintlocke, gnomish xray scope all nerfed.
Not sure what this is going to mean for hunters. Incendiary is an easy fire and forget item. Flintlocke still gives 30agi and gnomish 40AP, but the 40s ICD is annoying to micromanage and harder to justify at less than half the previous buff value. Another option is that BfA enchants can be used on ranged weapons, and can be used on ANY ranged weapons. So ilvl 25 BG crate weapons with ideal stats and slightly higher weapon damage can use those. The enchants themselves are meh, but depending on how nerfed the scope are...
7. Coastal Surge nerfed.
Still does 2/3 of what it used to, and an extra HoT is pretty nice still. +spellpower may compete in terms of throughput now though. I imagine it will depend on the class if the throughput or the hot is preferred.
8. Stats to bracer nerfed.
It used to show +1 on the tooltip, but give +2. Now it actually gives +1. Bracer enchants will likely switch to pure int/agi/str/stam/etc.
9. Crusader is NOT nerfed, still gives 100 str.
Warrior and ret are still somewhat limited classes, but their damage relative to everything else is going up. At higher levels, warrior is going to dominate even more than it already does. For 19s though, we'll see. Lack of mobility, slows, and spammable moves still mean warriors are vulnerable to kiting. A pocket healer is still highly recommended.
We'll see what actually makes it to live and if there are any other changes. Healers are going to be WAAAAAAY harder to kill. Warriors will be dealing more damage relative to other things, but still suffer from the same vulnerabilities. Some minor enchant changes to armor might be needed, but the weapon enchants are going to shake things up. We'll need to dust off some of those old enchants to see what sticks. +9 Spellpower might be comparable throughput for casters. Landslide, mongoose, and dancing steel will need to be tested. Some of the Cata/Wrath enchants with PPM or ICD style enchants might be worth looking into.
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