19 Quick Start Gearing Guide [BfA]

Lightkîng said:
For mages i have also found scaled Mindthrust bracers with better stats(imo BiS), Also feyline cloak seems to be very good (BiS ?) . Also the BG boots with +5 vers are better than the spider silk boots, i have tested this.

Here is my armory for reference: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/kazzak/arcanekîng
Also i wouldnt mark haste as being superior to Crit. I dont think this is the case at all.

First of all the average DPS is the SAME. Tested this many many many times.
second, Crit provides more value for mana compared to haste (OOM mage = useless mage), This is the main reason i run crit.
Third, having unpredictable burst helps you burn down those healers (monotone damage is easier to counter)

Open for discussion ofc
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As MartinD738 says, I don't believe Fayscale cloak is better than cape of the brotherhood (or sporid cape if going verse/crit). The 3 verse is just about as much damage as 1 int for your spells (I don't know the exact conversion, but I'd guess 2-3 verse per int), and also boosts hidden satyr/ele force and provides damage reduction. Its can also be a pain to farm due to the nature of the rare mob.

Mindthrust bracers probably should be added. I need to go through and look at the scaled and unscaled versions to see what exactly I should add.

The BG crate boots are listed on the same tier as Spidersilk boots (for mages at least). I'd consider adaptable boots to be the best possible, but BG crate boots with other stats and spidersilk boots are solid options. Since BG boots can be difficult to get, I like to make sure one other option is included usually.

For the crit vs haste aspect - most of the stat priorities listed are very generic and not set in stone. I can re-emphasize this for mage. Both haste and crit as the secondaries (after verse) are often used. Haste I believe works out to more damage overall, and lots of fast, consistent damage. It also eats through mana a little faster, but you'll eat through mana fast either way. Crit, even with the 150% nerf, is an option as it can be harder to heal through. A lucky crit can help burst a focus target down. It depends on your playstyle and team comp and whatnot.

Punchy said:
Doesn't haste give you mana regeneration as well though? Plus I would think it makes hot swapping target a little faster, with the lower gcd and stuff. easier poly morphs etc.

On another crit topic, I'm gearing a destro lock right now with straight crit no haste for the increased chaos bolt damage, it feels so awful trying to cast stuff with 0 haste, fears feel like forever so does trying to get a well timed spell off to burst someone. Its making me reconsider going to the otherside of haste. Obviously a different class but I want to see what people think about it.
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Theres a good discussion about destro in the F2P section right now. I'll probably update a bit with the options there. It sounds like going pure crit is fun, since it directly increases the damage of chaos bolt. Going verse/haste like most casters means you have a lot more that you can do with casting faster fears and other spells. It hurts your chaos bolt damage, so it depends if you're playing for big chaos bolts, or for a more support role. There hasn't been too much discussion here as warlock isn't FOTM and theres not a lot of people playing it right now.

MartinD738 said:
I think Feyscale Cloak is not as good as Cape of the Brotherhood as 3 vers will beat 1 int for pure damage and provide you with additional stats, as well as damage reduction.

As for the bracers I would agree they are probably BiS but I believe the higher ilvl version is GF(?). But only marginably better than a 4 versa 1 crit/haste BG bracers.

However, for a pure damage output I suspect the +7 int Bright Bracers offer more raw damage output.
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Mindthrust do scale, and the scaled version isn't grandfathered. You just have to farm SFK on your 19 to have it scaled, which can be a major pain. It has 5int/6stam/3verse. I don't recall offhand what the BG crate bracers are statwise. Dungeon are 4int/6stam/secondaries, which are generally going to include 3 verse at best, so will always be 1 int short. Bright bracers should offer the same output, but have no stam - I need to add them.

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In general I have several things to tweak, just haven't had time for a while. But keep the discussions and additions coming. Its pretty obvious to me that my cloth gear is lacking a bit, so I'll always welcome more info there.
 
In regards to your rogue gear advice above:

Scouting gloves can come in a +4 vers variant and also have crit, which make them better than serpentis gloves that only have 4 vers and no other secondary stats. They also provide the same damage boost as fang gloves but give better secondary stats, so fang gloves are only good as a placeholder and aren't BIS.

In regards to weapons, for offhand it's debatable as to if a level 17 version of twisted sabre could be bis instead of shadowfang or bronze shortsword, due to giving 5 agility and 4 vers. The only factor is if shadowfangs proc chance would outdue the sabres stats due to elem force procs. The twisted sabre is more rare than the shadowfang though, only ones on the market and it's a lvl 24 version I think. You would have to kill mobs using a level 19 until it drops.

Also black wolf bracers have less stats than Wranglers.

So for gloves you should have it in this order---- Scouting, Gloves up the uplifting cap, Fang.
For bracers---- BG crate, Forrest leather, Wranglers
Chest----BG crate, Gloomshroud, Prospectors, Dark leather tunic
Head----Goggles, Dokebi hat (scaled), Boa
Shoulders----BOA, Dungeon satchel, BOE, Serpents
Legs----Dark leather, enchanted, Scouting, enchanted, BG crate with +1 armor kit, BOA, enchanted ( All of these options other than BOA are subjective to setup goals, not listed in order of best to worst)
Boots---- BG crate, Feet of the lynx, Dark leather/Agile, Scorched blazehound boots
Neck----BOA neck, Dungeon satchel neck, Scouts neck, Hematite tortoise pendent
Back----Parachute cloak, Sporid cape
Belt---- Ruffian belt, Dungeon satchel belt, Girdle of the blindwatcher
Trinkets----Defending champion, touch of the void, inherited insignia. (You already have the honorable medalian ability, it's just a minute slower. I'd take the extra versitility from having both the other trinkets as you need dps.)
Weapons----Mainhand=BG crate, Offhand=Twisted sabre (scaled), Shadowfang, Bronze shortsword

All varients of bg and dungeon satchel gear should be of the quickblade, or if possible of the adaptable to add the most burst.
 
Potatosoup said:
In regards to your rogue gear advice above:

Scouting gloves can come in a +4 vers variant and also have crit, which make them better than serpentis gloves that only have 4 vers and no other secondary stats. They also provide the same damage boost as fang gloves but give better secondary stats, so fang gloves are only good as a placeholder and aren't BIS.

In regards to weapons, for offhand it's debatable as to if a level 17 version of twisted sabre could be bis instead of shadowfang or bronze shortsword, due to giving 5 agility and 4 vers. The only factor is if shadowfangs proc chance would outdue the sabres stats due to elem force procs. The twisted sabre is more rare than the shadowfang though, only ones on the market and it's a lvl 24 version I think. You would have to kill mobs using a level 19 until it drops.

Also black wolf bracers have less stats than Wranglers.

So for gloves you should have it in this order---- Scouting, Gloves up the uplifting cap, Fang.
For bracers---- BG crate, Forrest leather, Wranglers
Chest----BG crate, Gloomshroud, Prospectors, Dark leather tunic
Head----Goggles, Dokebi hat (scaled), Boa
Shoulders----BOA, Dungeon satchel, BOE, Serpents
Legs----Dark leather, enchanted, Scouting, enchanted, BG crate with +1 armor kit, BOA, enchanted ( All of these options other than BOA are subjective to setup goals, not listed in order of best to worst)
Boots---- BG crate, Feet of the lynx, Dark leather/Agile, Scorched blazehound boots
Neck----BOA neck, Dungeon satchel neck, Scouts neck, Hematite tortoise pendent
Back----Parachute cloak, Sporid cape
Belt---- Ruffian belt, Dungeon satchel belt, Girdle of the blindwatcher
Trinkets----Defending champion, touch of the void, inherited insignia. (You already have the honorable medalian ability, it's just a minute slower. I'd take the extra versitility from having both the other trinkets as you need dps.)
Weapons----Mainhand=BG crate, Offhand=Twisted sabre (scaled), Shadowfang, Bronze shortsword

All varients of bg and dungeon satchel gear should be of the quickblade, or if possible of the adaptable to add the most burst.
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If you can show me a twisted sabre at lvl 17, I'll add it. AFAIK no one has proved it scales down yet.

In general, the items on the same tier (separated by commas) are not necessarily in best-to-worst order. The greater than signs are what separates tiers, so anything to the right of a > is going to be not BiS, but generally very easy to obtain until you can find the rarer BiS options. Anything on the same tier is more or less BiS depending on the gear set (glass cannon vs balanced agi/stam vs balanced w/ secondaries, etc). Sometimes items that are nearly BiS (prospector chest), but BiS is really rare and/or expensive (scaled gloomshroud) - so I've opted for the almost as good version (see bronze sword and shadowfang.

I've been using 2.5 verse = 1 agi, which still puts gloves of the fang at better than scouting gloves for pure damage. That conversion rate is napkin math, but no one has come up with a true value.

I probably need to add wranglers. Wowhead is being wonky for me now so I can't check the stats vs the BG crate. I may have decided that the BG crate is better and to therefore not include it.

Does Dokebi actually drop and scale down to 19? Like the sabre, if you can show me that its obtainable, I'll add it.

I haven't included dungeon satchel neck, WSG neck, or hermatite tortoise pendant because they are all equal or inferior damage to the BoA, which wins because of the heal active.

Ruffian belt is not included as it is GFd. There are a few unbound ones around, but those are beyond the scope of this quick start guide.

For trinkets, the insignia is included as it can help secure kills on people who are almost dead. I don't personally use it, but some people definitely want it off cooldown as much as possible to secure those kills.
 
I currently have a level 16 req, ilvl 19 dokebi hat that gives 8 agility, 4 crit, 3 vers. When equipped my abilities do the same amount of damage as when the goggles are used, but the difference is that the hat gives slight crit bonuses, at a cost of a ton of stam. It might even scale to level 19 and would beat the goggles in terms of a dps boost which might would make it BIS for a pure glass cannon set. I also have a level 19 feathered headdress, which gives 6 agility and 6 vers. I havn't equipped it yet due to waiting to see if it's rare, but it may be bis as well for pure damage.

I'm currently spending a few hours a day when I can and i've been farming the mobs that drop the sabre, on my 19 rogue. I'm also pickpocketing them as well and sending the boxes back to my 19 rogue to loot, to join in the quest for a 19 bvb and to find out if it's possible. Might as well do both at the same time to make farming less boring.

When equipped the scouting gloves give the same damage bonus as well to my abilities as the fang gloves do, except with scouting I get extra secondary stats. You might be right however in a total math way, because maybe the fang gloves in combination with another items agility bonus give more damage than the scouting gloves alone due to an abilities damage being rounded to the nearest whole number. But at first glance they both give the same damage via the tooltip.

Also scouts neck would be slightly better in a pure glass cannon set, and I mean a PURE glass cannon set, albeit one would miss out on the small self heal and the damage reduction from the vers.
[doublepost=1542067730,1542067652][/doublepost]I'm all about minning and maxing a twink, Iv'e been collecting gear and doing countless bg's on my 19 rogue in an effort to be come up with the absolute perfect set that's not grandfathered BOP. Just got a pair of ''of the adaptable'' boots an hour ago and that was very nice.
[doublepost=1542068128][/doublepost]When this guy's finished my perfect set idea so far will be:
Head-Goggles
shoulders-BOA
Chest-BG chest of the quickblade (got it)
Legs-BG chest of the quickblade (got it)
Feet-BG chest of the adaptable (got it)
Wrist-BG chest of the quickblade
Weapon Mainhand-BG chest of the quickblade, Offhand-Twisted sabre
Rings-BG chest of the quickblade, Dungeon satchel ring (got the BG one, with 4 vers and 1 crit)
Hands-Scouting gloves of the quickblade (have two pairs, one with 4 agility, one with 7 stam)
Back-Parachute cloak (have two, one with vers/speed, one with agility and armor
Belt-Ruffian belt

Also whenever I get that arena trinket as well to combine with the void one I'll have between 1600 and 1700 hp.

This set will have enough agility and verse to do almost as much damage as a pure glass cannon set, but with like 600 more HP and 25 percent crit chance, and around 22 verse. Using it, one could still take down efc's, but could 1v1 any other rogue.
 
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Potatosoup said:
I currently have a level 16 req, ilvl 19 dokebi hat that gives 8 agility, 4 crit, 3 vers. When equipped my abilities do the same amount of damage as when the goggles are used, but the difference is that the hat gives slight crit bonuses, at a cost of a ton of stam. It might even scale to level 19 and would beat the goggles in terms of a dps boost which might would make it BIS for a pure glass cannon set. I also have a level 19 feathered headdress, which gives 6 agility and 6 vers. I havn't equipped it yet due to waiting to see if it's rare, but it may be bis as well for pure damage.

I'm currently spending a few hours a day when I can and i've been farming the mobs that drop the sabre, on my 19 rogue. I'm also pickpocketing them as well and sending the boxes back to my 19 rogue to loot, to join in the quest for a 19 bvb and to find out if it's possible. Might as well do both at the same time to make farming less boring.

When equipped the scouting gloves give the same damage bonus as well to my abilities as the fang gloves do, except with scouting I get extra secondary stats. You might be right however in a total math way, because maybe the fang gloves in combination with another items agility bonus give more damage than the scouting gloves alone due to an abilities damage being rounded to the nearest whole number. But at first glance they both give the same damage via the tooltip.

Also scouts neck would be slightly better in a pure glass cannon set, and I mean a PURE glass cannon set, albeit one would miss out on the small self heal and the damage reduction from the vers.
[doublepost=1542067730,1542067652][/doublepost]I'm all about minning and maxing a twink, Iv'e been collecting gear and doing countless bg's on my 19 rogue in an effort to be come up with the absolute perfect set that's not grandfathered BOP. Just got a pair of ''of the adaptable'' boots an hour ago and that was very nice.
[doublepost=1542068128][/doublepost]When this guy's finished my perfect set idea so far will be:
Head-Goggles
shoulders-BOA
Chest-BG chest of the quickblade (got it)
Legs-BG chest of the quickblade (got it)
Feet-BG chest of the adaptable (got it)
Wrist-BG chest of the quickblade
Weapon Mainhand-BG chest of the quickblade, Offhand-Twisted sabre
Rings-BG chest of the quickblade, Dungeon satchel ring (got the BG one, with 4 vers and 1 crit)
Hands-Scouting gloves of the quickblade (have two pairs, one with 4 agility, one with 7 stam)
Back-Parachute cloak (have two, one with vers/speed, one with agility and armor
Belt-Ruffian belt

Also whenever I get that arena trinket as well to combine with the void one I'll have between 1600 and 1700 hp.

This set will have enough agility and verse to do almost as much damage as a pure glass cannon set, but with like 600 more HP and 25 percent crit chance, and around 22 verse. Using it, one could still take down efc's, but could 1v1 any other rogue.
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Cool to see Dokebi hat scales down. Unfortunately it won't scale to level 19 req with our current understanding of scaling (only things that drop from a single mob/zone scale exactly to 19 - or those that require level 19 without scaling). But still - getting 8agi/3verse/4crit is great damage.

For Scouting Gloves and Scout's neck - the tooltips aren't reliable enough. Like you mentioned - theres rounding going on. But also a good chunk of damage comes from your enchants, which scale with verse as well. I use 2.5 verse, but I'd guess its closer to 2 verse per agi when taking enchants into account. So the BoA neck is the same, if not more damage than the WSG neck, and then the heal.

Think about it this way. You're saying WSG is more damage than BoA - which is trading 2 agi for 5 verse. But also saying scouting gloves are better than gloves of the fang, which is trading 4 verse for 2 agi.
 
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The only way i'll truly be able to tell which gloves and neck is ultimately the best will be after I already get my other slots filled with the rest of my items. But regarding the gloves and neck I think you are right based on your math. So far even with having only 75 percent of the gear I desire Iv'e been pretty much winning 90 percent of the 1v1 against other rogues and still topping bg charts. I think full or almost full crate gear with all the versitility wins verses the standard glass cannon setup people use with dark leather chest, dark leather boots, dark leather pants, etc. Plus it's just more fun to live more than 5 seconds outside of stealth. I wouldn't call my set a tank set or even a balanced set either, because it'll be almost on par damage wise with a pure glass cannon set. I'd say it'll be an all around BIS setup for rated/solo queueing.
 
Potatosoup said:
The only way i'll truly be able to tell which gloves and neck is ultimately the best will be after I already get my other slots filled with the rest of my items. But regarding the gloves and neck I think you are right based on your math. So far even with having only 75 percent of the gear I desire Iv'e been pretty much winning 90 percent of the 1v1 against other rogues and still topping bg charts. I think full or almost full crate gear with all the versitility wins verses the standard glass cannon setup people use with dark leather chest, dark leather boots, dark leather pants, etc. Plus it's just more fun to live more than 5 seconds outside of stealth. I wouldn't call my set a tank set or even a balanced set either, because it'll be almost on par damage wise with a pure glass cannon set. I'd say it'll be an all around BIS setup for rated/solo queueing.
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Yeah, there are several solid rogues that feel the same way. Glass cannon is a great way to start and quickly get the damage to down EFCs. But a fully geared rogue does that and survives much better. Grandfathered gear makes that much easier (see my or Bestworld's rogues). Unforunately the quick start nature of this guide sometimes doesn't really get into the nuances there, as I mostly do a paragraph blurb for each class. Perhaps we'll get some individual class/spec guides - which would be a great place to really delve into all the special sets.

Speaking of which, I think you'd like a stealth set if you don't already have one. Basically it switches in boots with minor speed, a cloak with gift of verse (which you already have it sounds like), and catseye ultra goggles. Gets that 2% extra movespeed for crossing mid while stealthed, and also gives you a better chance to catch stealthies and sap them before they get you.

[doublepost=1542080428,1542071037][/doublepost]

Updates!

Other notes:

  • Not adding, but I want to note Faerie Cloak - as its slightly worse than sporid/brotherhood and harder to obtain. It is however very close to BiS and certainly viable. Note Sanguine Cloak would be best for glass cannon pure damage.
  • Not adding, but I want to note WSG neck - as its the same approximate damage as the BoAs with verse (depending on the value of verse) - and the BoA has the on-use heal. That being said, it is the most agility you can get for a neck and isn't a bad option.
  • Things to look forward to - NEW TRINKETS IN 8.1!!!

Thanks to all those who commented. Lots of great discussion and the gear guide is better for it!
 
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necroaqua said:
Yeah, there are several solid rogues that feel the same way. Glass cannon is a great way to start and quickly get the damage to down EFCs. But a fully geared rogue does that and survives much better. Grandfathered gear makes that much easier (see my or Bestworld's rogues). Unforunately the quick start nature of this guide sometimes doesn't really get into the nuances there, as I mostly do a paragraph blurb for each class. Perhaps we'll get some individual class/spec guides - which would be a great place to really delve into all the special sets.

Speaking of which, I think you'd like a stealth set if you don't already have one. Basically it switches in boots with minor speed, a cloak with gift of verse (which you already have it sounds like), and catseye ultra goggles. Gets that 2% extra movespeed for crossing mid while stealthed, and also gives you a better chance to catch stealthies and sap them before they get you.

[doublepost=1542080428,1542071037][/doublepost]

Updates!

Other notes:

  • Not adding, but I want to note Faerie Cloak - as its slightly worse than sporid/brotherhood and harder to obtain. It is however very close to BiS and certainly viable. Note Sanguine Cloak would be best for glass cannon pure damage.
  • Not adding, but I want to note WSG neck - as its the same approximate damage as the BoAs with verse (depending on the value of verse) - and the BoA has the on-use heal. That being said, it is the most agility you can get for a neck and isn't a bad option.
  • Things to look forward to - NEW TRINKETS IN 8.1!!!

Thanks to all those who commented. Lots of great discussion and the gear guide is better for it!
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You are a beast keep up the good work :) if only you also managed the armory thread our lives would be a lot easier. <3
 
notoriousthf said:
Have the release on trinkets been confirmed for 8.1 though? Remember how long it took the rings to make an appearance.
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I don't know as of yet. I haven't seen anything official from the PTR, but they do appear to use the new pvp currency in 8.1. So we'll see. I'm hyped for it nonetheless.

Lightkîng said:
You are a beast keep up the good work :) if only you also managed the armory thread our lives would be a lot easier. <3
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I don't relish Ripduck's job with the armory thread. Its hard to figure out who to add, people change specs and stop playing all the time. You'd really want a full application that monitors stuff - but we've got to do it in a thread format. Its rough =(
 
necroaqua said:
I don't relish Ripduck's job with the armory thread. Its hard to figure out who to add, people change specs and stop playing all the time. You'd really want a full application that monitors stuff - but we've got to do it in a thread format. Its rough =(
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I get it but all we really need is someone who checks the forums frequently. And for the current EU people who are stuck to "Vertical" Who hasnt been on the forum for a month now it could be nice if we had an active thread.

Cant you just copy past the existing thread and Revamp it ? Or maybe someone else can do it ?
 
Lightkîng said:
I get it but all we really need is someone who checks the forums frequently. And for the current EU people who are stuck to "Vertical" Who hasnt been on the forum for a month now it could be nice if we had an active thread.

Cant you just copy past the existing thread and Revamp it ? Or maybe someone else can do it ?
Click to expand...

Ahhh sounds like the EU thread isn't kept as up-to-date as the US thread. Guessing @Ripduck would be the person to talk to about having someone else take over that thread.
 
If anyone is interested in consumables, today I discovered you can get +8 Intellect food (possibly Agility/Strength). It can be expensive, but it is fast to do with a main and twink. Here is how to get it:-

1. Get your Twink to Legion Dalaran (Broken Isles).
2. Go to the Underbelly.
3. Log your main and go to Legion Dalaran (Broken Isles).
4. Go to Underbelly and buy https://www.wowhead.com/item=139411/underbelly-banquet with 650x https://www.wowhead.com/currency=1149/sightless-eye.
5. Pop the feast.
6. Relog Twink for 60 min +8 food (you can eat while behind the wall on the side of the Inn to avoid NPC aggro).
7. Watch your foes cower in fear /profit.
 
I have played and number tested destro lock enough that I have a pretty good understanding of stat value if you want to update it I have
Int>vers>crit>haste
vers seems to out preform crit even w the chaosbolt scaling.
 
I believe that Butcher's cleaver should be in the list of weapons for DW survival hunters. farm-able vers weapons for a balanced gear set 3 agi 3 vers 2 crit 5 stam.
 
Lateraldrop said:
I believe that Butcher's cleaver should be in the list of weapons for DW survival hunters. farm-able vers weapons for a balanced gear set 3 agi 3 vers 2 crit 5 stam.
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Quite possibly. As of right now, I've been leaning towards max agility - bronze shortsword (6agi) and blackwater cutlass (5agi/3crit) are very easy to get for high agility, so have been the go-to farmable item. With marksman having a lot of damage in double ele force, I could see an argument that verse is more important than it normally is. Butcher's Cleaver (or any similar weapon with 3verse - there are a number of greens) may actually be better - I just unfortunately have no numbers to go on.
 
Ill get the numbers, i have Backwaters and Butchers so give me a bit to do some sims.
[doublepost=1542837611,1542837382][/doublepost]i guess i can craft some bronze shortsword as well
[doublepost=1542847241][/doublepost]i got a rough estimate from lookin at my logs in some sims but my addon wasnt working right and isn't picking up the pet dmg so take this with a grain of salt right now it looks really close in dmg between blackwater and butcher's the proc dmg slightly higher for butchers and aa's are very slightly higher for Blackwaters (like 1 dmg point). IF they are that close i think the stam starts to weigh more even though its not a priority stats but its close enough that I cant really parse it without the right tools. Ill have to get back to it later this week; probably Friday.
 
Aaalright, in 5 min sims the average dps for blackwater and butcher's (with my gear) was as such-

Blackwater- 150 dps
Melee was top contributor w 31.6%
Eforce was second w 31.4%

Butcher's- 154 dps
Eforce was top contributor s 31.9%
Melee was second w 30.6%

the serpentine dmg was literally identical. Blackwater ha a higher average crit on Mark but that seems like an outlier since it does not proc often its more prone to have stray numbers. Also in 5 min there was literally 100+ Eforce procs; that was allot more than i expected. There were litterally almost as many Eforce procs as there were serpent sting dot ticks. Based off of this (and its by no means conclusive) I think Butchers would out perform in an actual BG because there is allot less uptime on melee auto attacks. Even if they performed equally at range butchers would just be like getting a free 10 stam and a little bit of defensive help from vers.
[doublepost=1542922157,1542922026][/doublepost]Saucy Craboo contributed equally in the average of both sims (50dps)
 
Lateraldrop said:
Aaalright, in 5 min sims the average dps for blackwater and butcher's (with my gear) was as such-

Blackwater- 150 dps
Melee was top contributor w 31.6%
Eforce was second w 31.4%

Butcher's- 154 dps
Eforce was top contributor s 31.9%
Melee was second w 30.6%

the serpentine dmg was literally identical. Blackwater ha a higher average crit on Mark but that seems like an outlier since it does not proc often its more prone to have stray numbers. Also in 5 min there was literally 100+ Eforce procs; that was allot more than i expected. There were litterally almost as many Eforce procs as there were serpent sting dot ticks. Based off of this (and its by no means conclusive) I think Butchers would out perform in an actual BG because there is allot less uptime on melee auto attacks. Even if they performed equally at range butchers would just be like getting a free 10 stam and a little bit of defensive help from vers.
[doublepost=1542922157,1542922026][/doublepost]Saucy Craboo contributed equally in the average of both sims (50dps)
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Good stuff. How much was kill command doing if you still have the numbers? It would be interesting to sim a "ranged" survival hunter only doing serpent sting and kill commands. I know pets inherit agility from you. Not sure about verse.

Either way, numbers look good enough for me to include it. I'll add it in when I get a chance.
 
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