Super Prot damage

[Swoops]

Oneshotting stuff is not a "small improvement" but flat out broken. Let's see 1v1 Prot Warrior-

Paladin- Prot warriors kill hpals unless the Hpal is extremely good. Prot warriors kill Ret paladins with ease and Prot Paladins if they don't use a CD

Mage- No Brainer here. Shield slam kills mage instantly if it crits. Warrior kills the mage before the mage kills the warrior.

Shaman- Resto might stand a chance but if the Warrior Crits and Charge stuns, it's over.

Hunters- A good BM hunter might beat a Prot warrior assuming the warrior doesn't use LOS.

Warlocks- No brainer here

Priests- Warrior kills the priest with charge stun + SS+ execute

Monk- Warrior kills all 3 specs

Druids- If the druid is resto and amazingly good, he might stand a chance. If not the warrior can just SS, charge stun and finish the druid off with another SS

Rogue- Warrior beats the rogue. Evasion won't save the rogue forever

QQ against prot warriors is justified. They are OP.

It would take a terrible paladin or an extremely lucky warrior for the fight to work out that way, regardless of pally spec. I didn't see a solo prot warrior as even the slightest threat playing an Hpal. Same thing with druids. The only way a prot warrior solos a resto druid is a huge shield slam into execute range while they're stunned. If the warrior needs to use a second shield slam, chances are the druid isn't dying.

2 prot warriors can be a problem for mages. One, not so much.

6 seconds may seem like a short CD, but that's a pretty significant window for healing. Warriors are still easy to counter.

4. SS > Avenger shield. Way shorter CD, twice the damage > silence.

no no no no no no no!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ARuoSFflc#t=3m51s

However, its damage is split between 3 people, so in a 1v1, it deals 1/3 the damage of shield slam. Of course, it silences, so that's an added bonus. [...] Self healing? The smart ones. Don't underestimate the number of paladins that don't cast a single heal on themselves, let alone their teammates (denounce spammers, anyone?). Never running out of mana??? This one really confused me. Flash of Light cost 37.8% of your base mana

Avenger's shield does full damage to single targets. It'll hit harder against people with armor, shield slam will hit harder against clothies. Also, classes shouldn't be balanced around people who legitimately don't remotely know how to play them, the overwhelming number of Quel'thalas/Gallywix Paladins that can't heal doesn't make paladins any less OP. Prot requires some mana management and spacing out heals, maybe a mana potion here or there if you really need it. You don't need to spam FoL in a fight against a warrior though.


Anywho, Shield Slam is too strong - it's a tad broken at this level (as opposed to being totally broken at slightly higher levels where glyphs come into play). But it didn't magically turn warriors into this godly 1v1 class people are making it out to be. They're still nowhere near as good as a prot pally. A lot of times their only chance of getting a kill is two consecutive shield slam crits. Say they're running 15% crit (which is pretty much a full crit stack right now). You know what the chance is of that happening? Like 2%.

All this means is you actually need to be wary of Prot Warriors now. Tbh, I still find Arms to be a much bigger threat most of the time, especially if I'm healing.

 

[sevenslacks7]

I gtg. Will argue some more later. Have fun!

^ . This thread as I have posted like 5 times now is not a QQ about warriors thread, I am just tired of these worthless arguments, this as I have stated was for warriors who want to try out getting maxed on their shield slam damage, being that we have been under powered so long and deserve a thread to discus things to try out.

If you want to QQ about warriors create a new thread for it because I am tired of answering the same questions.

 

[Mialo]

Let's agree to disagree. Keep it polite, people. Don't make me lock such a good discussion

 

[Activate]

twice the damage > silence.

My sides

 

[Lil]

OP means overpowered--I know you know this--and if one class is "less overpowered" than another, then how are they overpowered at all? What do you call people who are not super-human, for example? You call them human. Overpowered would be if you are unkillable or run rampant through BGs, like Cata hunters or current paladins and druids. If you just have regular abilities, and perhaps one area where you specialize (damage for warriors, CC for hunters/mages, etc) then that's not OP, that's just having viability.

Damn this thread has gotten alot of attention this morning >.< Made it hard to find your reply.

I know what OP means and I'm not the one trying to say every class OP however some classes are OP in certain categories then some classes are overall just plain OP. Pallies and Druids are just plain OP (besides ret/guardian). They are overpowered to almost any class and can counter almost any class thus making them flat out OP imo. Some classes are OP in certain aspects like a hunt with it's CC or a rogue with it's 1kish ambushes. I considered rogues OP before when they were getting 900 ambushes and 400 evis doing 1.2k-1.5k dmg in a matter of 2s.

I think wars are OP just on the plain fact that they can one shot people. I'm not saying they can beat every class but when you even have the chance of 1 shotting someone I consider that pretty unbalanced thus making you OP. Just for example: aimed shot has a 2+ second cast and does half as much as shield slam. Ambush can only be done in stealth while behind your target and only does around half the damage as shield slam. All I'm trying to say is some of the harder hitting abilities in this bracket are hard to set up or has something limiting them to how often they can do it.

SS can be done whenver you get off that combat charge off. Yayaya hunts can kite in 40 yd range or people can stay in that dead zone around 6 feet but lets be honest.. Theoretically possible this just doesn't happen really. I've said it in bgs and I'll say it in here. I'm glad wars got this buff and I'm glad they are OP. They took so much beating up in cata they deserve an OP patch and when the badly geared 1.4k wars are critting for 1.2k they are gonna keep playing. I'm not really complaining they are OP I'm more just trying to get other people to realize that 1 shotting people (no matter how frequent or tough) is pretty OP

 

[Franciska]

Hunter became the prey to Warriors i guess, eh Lil? Atleast Hunters get punched of their high horses now by what they used to camp. I hope you learn sometimes from this. No hard feelings, you hear?

 

[LennywBT]

Umm hey Oldspike , ITS ME LENNYW !

 

[Lil]

Hunter became the prey to Warriors i guess, eh Lil? Atleast Hunters get punched of their high horses now by what they used to camp. I hope you learn sometimes from this. No hard feelings, you hear?

I'll still give wars my best and pop that RoS every chance I got although the OP has gotten the best of me 1v1 a couple times I think I know his style now. Hunts have been off their high horses since cata and MoP balanced them out kinda so as long as these wars are 1 shotting all these mop healers I'll all for the buff

 

[Snowjobs]

can honestly say i have yet to be one shot by a prot warrior and ive been running around in my swag set almost all bg's lately with 1.3k health (max spirit and haste and min stam).

Imo yes prots can hit hard. woopty freaking do. if i see one with more that 15% crit chance ill be impressed. i dont consider prots op i just consider it worth while for me to mozzy on down to tun top when i see more than one coming up to attack me when im on horde roof fcing.

 

[potatoez]

SSing Efc with 10 stacks must be a pleasure, i bet

 

[Holypowah]

So are you really just complaining that in the fast paced world(of warcraft) PVP you miss a CC and cause a loss and get blamed?

Rogue doesn't have a lockout unless you count sap, which is situational. Pally (you know the class you play) has a stun, a bubble, a heal to full, can spec into an instant decent heal, can spec into a silence. All that and you have mail. Last I checked SS is physical, so your armor can help there, just focus your gear for higher armor and stam. The heriloom hammer will have plenty of spellpower.

Bob

Exactly. Warriors have less to worry about because they don't have much abilities at this level therefore less skill used.

 

[Holypowah]

Please take a look at Guarded by the Light.

Last sentence, I paraphrase, "Grants 6% of your maximum mana every 2 sec.". Now, without enchants, you have 120 mana at level 20, doing basic math 6% of 120 is 1.2*6=7.2 mana every 2 seconds, together with your basic mana regen. The mana granted by GbtL is instant, it doesn't crawl up like normal mana regen (or, just as an example, energy does), it becomes instantly available after 2 seconds (like the 14 focus does for a hunter that cast Steady Shot). With you saying that a prot paladin's Flash of Light costs 37.8% of his base mana and takes 1.5 seconds to cast (without Haste) and getting 6% back every 2 seconds, I can say that you can easily cast 3 FoLs in a row without having mana issues (even moreso with the pushback suffered by melee hits). Then, don't forget that our beloved paladin's have the famous "OH SHIT!"-buttons, namely Divine Shield and Lay on Hands, as well as they have their favorite Hammer of Justice. IF they are EVER in a situation, where they JUST CAN'T withstand an offense dealing enough damage to diminish a geared prot paladin's 2k hp (don't forget GbtL grants 10% higher chance to block and reduces the chance to be critically struck by 6%) then he can easily just activate one of the above skills (HoJ being the weakest against a bigger assault than 1v1, then Lay on Hands, then Divine Shield) to get either 8 seconds of free casting, 6 seconds of less damage or an instant heal, that heals you for 100% of your maximum health. Also, don't forget we have an instant heal, Word of Glory, that, together with GbtL, is not on the global cooldown and healcrit my paladin for 700 once (of course with 3 charges of Holy Power).

And damage wise the paladin hardly lacks anything in comparison to a prot warrior.

If a warrior manages to make a pally use a CD, the pally is terribad.

 

[Holypowah]

It would take a terrible paladin or an extremely lucky warrior for the fight to work out that way, regardless of pally spec. I didn't see a solo prot warrior as even the slightest threat playing an Hpal. Same thing with druids. The only way a prot warrior solos a resto druid is a huge shield slam into execute range while they're stunned. If the warrior needs to use a second shield slam, chances are the druid isn't dying.

2 prot warriors can be a problem for mages. One, not so much.

6 seconds may seem like a short CD, but that's a pretty significant window for healing. Warriors are still easy to counter.



no no no no no no no!

Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody - YouTube

Avenger's shield does full damage to single targets. It'll hit harder against people with armor, shield slam will hit harder against clothies. Also, classes shouldn't be balanced around people who legitimately don't remotely know how to play them, the overwhelming number of Quel'thalas/Gallywix Paladins that can't heal doesn't make paladins any less OP. Prot requires some mana management and spacing out heals, maybe a mana potion here or there if you really need it. You don't need to spam FoL in a fight against a warrior though.


Anywho, Shield Slam is too strong - it's a tad broken at this level (as opposed to being totally broken at slightly higher levels where glyphs come into play). But it didn't magically turn warriors into this godly 1v1 class people are making it out to be. They're still nowhere near as good as a prot pally. A lot of times their only chance of getting a kill is two consecutive shield slam crits. Say they're running 15% crit (which is pretty much a full crit stack right now). You know what the chance is of that happening? Like 2%.

All this means is you actually need to be wary of Prot Warriors now. Tbh, I still find Arms to be a much bigger threat most of the time, especially if I'm healing.

Huge damage on single targets > divided burst. When a warrior crits you, you are forced to heal. Hell, I beat Prot paladins on my warrior all the time without losing half health. Also when fighting druids as a Prot warrior, I can just run up to them via mount, SS them, charge, ss again and execute.

Seriously man. Have you seen a warrior with zerker? INSANE crits. They can oneshot almost everything and that isn't OP?

 

[verh]

Regardless of how mobility and cc is potentially being able to one shot on a 6 sec cd is broken. Not necessarily overpowered, but definitely broken.

Yep, I stopped posting in here because I have an allergy to confirmation bias, and this thread is loaded with it now.

Going off on the bias tangent it's equally likely that people who originally played wars did so in order to not be overpowered or because they enjoy the class, and so they don't want to it to be broken now.

 

[Kincaide]

Going off on the bias tangent it's equally likely that people who originally played wars did so in order to not be overpowered or because they enjoy the class, and so they don't want to it to be broken now.

I completely agree with you. I'm an old-school warrior as the other "old guard" members around here can tell you. I suffered through all the time that warriors were among the worst of classes (respect to the warlocks, though).

But even then, I haven't been able to one-shot a single person yet, and so I reject the entire argument that warriors are running around one-shotting everyone. It's simply not true. Granted I haven't played all night long, so my evidence is anecdotal, but I can definitely say that if the claim were true, I'd have OHK'ed at least one person by now.

Between armor mitigation, increased stats and HP from scaling, and the age-old issues of CC and ToT, warriors simply are not the OHK gods that people (read: Holypowah) are making them out to be. And if the argument for them being OP or broken is that they one-shot people all over the place, then the facts just don't support the case.

My other main is a hunter. I didn't start playing a hunter until after Cata because Cata hunters were genuinely OP. Hunters today, though, can still 2- or 3-global the same opponents that people are claiming can be one-shot by warriors, and hunters can do so at range with 100% ToT and (in the case of my Pandaren hunter) up to six different CC tools. Yet hunters are considered balanced by today's standards.

 

[Buckeye]

Please take a look at Guarded by the Light.

Last sentence, I paraphrase, "Grants 6% of your maximum mana every 2 sec.". Now, without enchants, you have 120 mana at level 20, doing basic math 6% of 120 is 1.2*6=7.2 mana every 2 seconds, together with your basic mana regen. The mana granted by GbtL is instant, it doesn't crawl up like normal mana regen (or, just as an example, energy does), it becomes instantly available after 2 seconds (like the 14 focus does for a hunter that cast Steady Shot). With you saying that a prot paladin's Flash of Light costs 37.8% of his base mana and takes 1.5 seconds to cast (without Haste) and getting 6% back every 2 seconds, I can say that you can easily cast 3 FoLs in a row without having mana issues (even moreso with the pushback suffered by melee hits). Then, don't forget that our beloved paladin's have the famous "OH SHIT!"-buttons, namely Divine Shield and Lay on Hands, as well as they have their favorite Hammer of Justice. IF they are EVER in a situation, where they JUST CAN'T withstand an offense dealing enough damage to diminish a geared prot paladin's 2k hp (don't forget GbtL grants 10% higher chance to block and reduces the chance to be critically struck by 6%) then he can easily just activate one of the above skills (HoJ being the weakest against a bigger assault than 1v1, then Lay on Hands, then Divine Shield) to get either 8 seconds of free casting, 6 seconds of less damage or an instant heal, that heals you for 100% of your maximum health. Also, don't forget we have an instant heal, Word of Glory, that, together with GbtL, is not on the global cooldown and healcrit my paladin for 700 once (of course with 3 charges of Holy Power).

And damage wise the paladin hardly lacks anything in comparison to a prot warrior.

They can't Lay on Hands then Divine Shield.
Both skills cause one minute of Forbearance.

 

[Fujin0]

If a warrior manages to make a pally use a CD, the pally is terribad.

You said warriors are op, then you say if a paladin has to use a cd to counter said op warrior he's terribad? #LOGEK ?!

 

[Holypowah]

You said warriors are op, then you say if a paladin has to use a cd to counter said op warrior he's terribad? #LOGEK ?!

I changed my views.

 

[Kincaide]

I changed my views.

Sooo.... you no longer think warriors are OP?

 

[Fujin0]

They can't Lay on Hands then Divine Shield.
Both skills cause one minute of Forbearance.

If you think I don't know this, I take this as an offence. Yes they do, but it doesn't change the fact, that you can cast either one, then wait a minute and cast the other. Just saying, you can press either (as I said - I never stated you have to press all of them at the same time: "then he can easily just activate one of the above skills [...] to get either 8 seconds of free casting, 6 seconds of less damage or an instant heal, that heals you for 100% of your maximum health.")