Waterworks
Moooderator
It's a cat-a-loupe
How to get P2P enchants on your F2P twink
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It's a cat-a-loupe
Dramatized
Legend
[MENTION=10336]Yde[/MENTION] - why haven't you cleared all this off-topic in this thread?
yasueh
OG
Bullshit is the result of people not taking the time to read anything properly, or make the effort to understand it, before spreading it even further. It's why you get bullshit arguments like this:
Why does TI have separate 20-24 and F2P sections?
For one very simple reason. One group is pay to win.
Why are the arguments made above complete and utter bullshit?
Achievements are not pay to win.
Tabards are not pay to win.
A clearly false and biased opinion, based on willful ignorance towards the blatantly obvious. Blizzard do not care about trials communicating with each other, and there is no rule against it, merely a restriction on some forms of communication for trial accounts, so that they cannot be used for gold spamming. You'd think after the addon has been available for several years, gaining over 4000 users, Blizzard would have done something if they had any problem with what it did.
F2PAddon is not pay to win.
OK, so someone payed to help you get an AGM. However, anything that can be done more conveniently with a P2P, that can still be done with just a F2P, is not pay to win.
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The issue here is that doing anything that gives an advantage - when competing against those who are restricting themselves solely to the use of an F2P account - which cannot be gained in any way except through the assistance of a payed character, is very clearly pay to win.
And the final piece of that bullshit argument?
No-one is criticising other F2Ps, because when you are pay-to-win, you aren't F2P.
Becasue of that this topic has no business being in the free to play section, and should be moved to 20-24.
danny glover
Officially Retired
i'm not sure you kids entirely understand the point of f2p.
if you're going to crutch guild heirlooms and op chants just pay the 15 a month, it's much easier.
if you're going to crutch guild heirlooms and op chants just pay the 15 a month, it's much easier.
kablam
OG
Going to try and approach this from an ethical standpoint as logically as I have the means to.
The first thing we need to do is establish an operative definition for an “F2P twink.” The definition that I support, and I believe most people do, is that an “F2P twink” is a level twenty character abiding by traditional limits and restraints regarding gear, enchants, professions and any other aspect that directly affects PvP. For this reason, level twenty characters on pay to play accounts can be appropriately referred to as “F2P twinks” if they abide by the restrictions in place. This, historically, has been the case and pay to play twenties are regularly welcomed into the “F2P twink” community. From this point on, with the exception of my next paragraph, this is what I will be referring to with the words “F2P twink.”
If one counters, arguing that an “F2P twink” is any character on an unlinked trial account, then the argument below breaks down. To accept that definition, however, one would have to be against the inclusion of P2P twenties in our bracket – much the same way that they are against 24s – due to the fact that they are not “F2P twinks.” If I thought long enough on the matter, I’m sure that I would find many other complications involved with that definition.
Back to the argument.
The two logical tool that I will be making use of is syllogism, specifically modus ponens.
“A syllogism is a kind of logical argument in which one proposition is inferred two or more others (the premises) of a specific form.” They come in many different formats and each format has its own intended uses. Modus Ponens is a specific syllogism which follows a format such as this:
Premise 1 (P1) – If statement p is true then statement q is true.
Premise 2 (P2) – Statement p is true.
Conclusion (C) – Therefore statement q is true.
Following that format:
Premise 1 (P1) – If it is wrong to play a 24 twink because of the advantages (primarily powerful enchants) they hold over “F2P twinks,” then it is wrong to make use of those same advantages on an “F2P twink.”
Premise 2 (P2) – It is wrong to play a 24 twink because of the advantages (primarily powerful enchants) they hold over “F2P twinks.”
Conclusion (C) – Therefore, it is wrong to make use of those same advantages (primarily powerful enchants) on an “F2P twink.”
I was going to go further into the topic and use case comparison in light of similar issues that occurred in the 19s bracket but, quite frankly, I don’t want to. The exoskeleton of the entire debate stands plainly above.
The first thing we need to do is establish an operative definition for an “F2P twink.” The definition that I support, and I believe most people do, is that an “F2P twink” is a level twenty character abiding by traditional limits and restraints regarding gear, enchants, professions and any other aspect that directly affects PvP. For this reason, level twenty characters on pay to play accounts can be appropriately referred to as “F2P twinks” if they abide by the restrictions in place. This, historically, has been the case and pay to play twenties are regularly welcomed into the “F2P twink” community. From this point on, with the exception of my next paragraph, this is what I will be referring to with the words “F2P twink.”
If one counters, arguing that an “F2P twink” is any character on an unlinked trial account, then the argument below breaks down. To accept that definition, however, one would have to be against the inclusion of P2P twenties in our bracket – much the same way that they are against 24s – due to the fact that they are not “F2P twinks.” If I thought long enough on the matter, I’m sure that I would find many other complications involved with that definition.
Back to the argument.
The two logical tool that I will be making use of is syllogism, specifically modus ponens.
“A syllogism is a kind of logical argument in which one proposition is inferred two or more others (the premises) of a specific form.” They come in many different formats and each format has its own intended uses. Modus Ponens is a specific syllogism which follows a format such as this:
Premise 1 (P1) – If statement p is true then statement q is true.
Premise 2 (P2) – Statement p is true.
Conclusion (C) – Therefore statement q is true.
Following that format:
Premise 1 (P1) – If it is wrong to play a 24 twink because of the advantages (primarily powerful enchants) they hold over “F2P twinks,” then it is wrong to make use of those same advantages on an “F2P twink.”
Premise 2 (P2) – It is wrong to play a 24 twink because of the advantages (primarily powerful enchants) they hold over “F2P twinks.”
Conclusion (C) – Therefore, it is wrong to make use of those same advantages (primarily powerful enchants) on an “F2P twink.”
I was going to go further into the topic and use case comparison in light of similar issues that occurred in the 19s bracket but, quite frankly, I don’t want to. The exoskeleton of the entire debate stands plainly above.
Snowjobs
Fluffy
quite the funny thread we have here .
sadly i dont play any more butt this has been around for a while .
only reason i would do this is to get some really pretty colored enchants on my furry warrior or on an enh shaman .
it would be cool to dual wield those lvl 20 horde axes with some super pretty enchants ! just for swag purposes . so i could walk around org on my dead ass realm looking super sexy for the one person in org
sadly i dont play any more butt this has been around for a while .
only reason i would do this is to get some really pretty colored enchants on my furry warrior or on an enh shaman .
it would be cool to dual wield those lvl 20 horde axes with some super pretty enchants ! just for swag purposes . so i could walk around org on my dead ass realm looking super sexy for the one person in org
LennywBT
SpeeDIO
Idk , sometimes i think it would be better , do more critz , have more hp ... , but some timesi feel like leaving the f2p bracket behind if i do that , so to be honest i dont rly know.
Xaosync
Legend
Everytime I'd try to discuss the logistics, someone comes along and just says, "WELL YOU AREN'T F2P, CALL IT WHAT IT IS". Lmao.
You people don't care about the issue, you just want to label people. It was amusing at first so I played with the ball of yarn a little but now I'm just flat out embarrassed to have posted in this topic to begin with.
Enjoy your lovely little 2-dimensional world you've made for yourselves.
You people don't care about the issue, you just want to label people. It was amusing at first so I played with the ball of yarn a little but now I'm just flat out embarrassed to have posted in this topic to begin with.
Enjoy your lovely little 2-dimensional world you've made for yourselves.
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Dramatized
Legend
So basically you go from F2P to P2P. Where's the F2P spirit here? Oh.. good that we can make tickets about those people exploiting the system ^^
PS: Gonna prepare my pencil.. many people to report from day 1 of 5.4 i suppose
Let me spell "F2P" and "P2P" out for you, just to straighten some things out.
F2P = Free to play (On that account you don't pay a monthly fee to Blizzard).
P2P = Pay to play (On that account you pay a monthly fee to Blizzard).
In this case I think it's pretty apparent that people who do this remains F2Ps.
grathlong
Legend
Oh that's awesome. *sarcasm* I guess they say what goes around comes around right!So basically you go from F2P to P2P. Where's the F2P spirit here? Oh.. good that we can make tickets about those people exploiting the system ^^
PS: Gonna prepare my pencil.. many people to report from day 1 of 5.4 i suppose
verh
Legend
People on both sides of the argument seem to be trying to accomplish the same thing. Both sides seem to have more balance games in mind, although how they achieve them is different. People for the enchants want to bring everyone up to the level of p2ps, while people against them want to bring everyone down to the level of f2ps. The problem is, eventually gm will catch on and not everybody will be able to get enchants, so this way of balancing the bracket will not work. On the same note, there will always be 24s/p2ps who will have these enchants, so that way of balancing the bracket will not work either. Long story short, come to the bwl/coilfang/malganis/jaedenar/anetheron/kt czr group for world pvp.
lokah
Legend
Everytime I'd try to discuss the logistics, someone comes along and just says, "WELL YOU AREN'T F2P, CALL IT WHAT IT IS". Lmao.
You people don't care about the issue, you just want to label people. It was amusing at first so I played with the ball of yarn a little but now I'm just flat out embarrassed to have posted in this topic to begin with.
Enjoy your lovely little 2-dimensional world you've made for yourselves.
Shut up.
Xaosync
Legend
Most compelling argument yet. You outlined your point and backed it up with FACTS. More people need to debate like lokah. I've seen the light, down with F2P's with enchants, I've been convinced.
Waterworks
Moooderator
So basically you go from F2P to P2P. Where's the F2P spirit here? Oh.. good that we can make tickets about those people exploiting the system ^^
PS: Gonna prepare my pencil.. many people to report from day 1 of 5.4 i suppose
P2Ps reporting F2Ps for having enchants? This might possibly be the most ironic thing I've ever heard. Ever.
Edit: EVER.
Edit #2 : Liek. EVAR guiz. Twenty years of "ever". Two decades!
Ever!
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Oniyui
Legend
Don't be so dramatic. There are plenty of people here who care about the issue. It's an issue that's come around since Bliz separated xp-off battleground brackets. There's essentially a new school of thought within the twinking community. Whereas the old school's entire purpose was to become as OP as possible at low levels to farm leveling players, the new school just wants a fair, different pvp experience outside the excessive grind of endgame.
Many people on this site who have 20 f2ps come from the latter and are quite pationate about it. 2-3 players on one side with overwhelming advantages in a game of 20 people can faceroll in a match that could have been a good game makes you feel like every queue you wait for is a waste of time.
Many of us have p2ps, as I'm sure you've gathered. It would be easy for any of us to exploit this, sure. Is that fair, though? Explain it to everyone you want. The entire bracket could find out about it... would that make it fair?
Is telling someone they'd be more competitive in any game by doing something that could potentially result in suspension or banishment fair? Not really. Someone will always get left behind for not taking the risk.
So, at the end of the day, where does the second school of thought stand on the issue? Well, to protect that ideal of fairness we all have to stand by the peers who won't take that risk. Because this bracket isn't easy for everyone to gear up and people put a lot of work into their 20s. We can't ask those people to either risk it all and step up or get left behind.
You can twink however you want to. Some people will think its awesome, some will think its unfair, some won't care, some will be jelly, some won't even remember who you are. Some will reject you and exclude you.
Yes. This is a fairly 2-dimensional issue. It's one of many smaller 2-dimensional issues stemming from these 2 schools of thought, where fewer of us agree even still. Don't even get us started on wall jumps and really, really don't get us going on tournament rules. At the end of all the issues added up you'll find it's a lot less 2-dimensional here than how obviously 2-dimensional a single forum topic can be.
Crystalpall
the F2P PvEr
We told You a lot of things, Me, Yde, Yasueh...
But You seem to ignore the facts we present you.
That's why Lokah told you to shut up, because you are irritating people with your cheap sarcasm and pointless posts, about something you think is correct.
Xaosync
Legend
Wasn't being dramatic so much as I was making an observation, at the time they were no longer arguing the point that it's morally explicit to further imbalance the bracket anymore, they're arguing the point that the community should be divided further by shuffling labels around. That's all.
Twinking isn't about being fair. I was in the 19's scene in Vanilla and it was brutal. Twinking is about bettering your character and having an advantage. That's the opposite of fair.
20-24 is becoming the Fox News of the twink brackets, trying to argue that we should be fair and balance when the prospect in and of it's self is not only redundant because they aren't actually twinks because they're actively gimping themselves out of some misguided sense of what's right and wrong, but it's impossible because other people in the bracket ARE twinking. Those people being 24's and F2P's taking advantage of being able to use the mail.
It's like an entire community agreeing to let the other half of the bracket walk all over them so they can feel superior.
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