verh
Legend
Its not twisting your words, or even embellishment. You say skill is having more buttons to push, then post a definition that contradicts that by saying it's practice. That's not me twisting your words, it's you contradicting yourself.
Consumables in a Premade
- Thread starter kratos
- Start date
Its not twisting your words, or even embellishment. You say skill is having more buttons to push, then post a definition that contradicts that by saying it's practice. That's not me twisting your words, it's you contradicting yourself.
Blinka
Legend
Fill me in. From this comment it seems those potions continue protecting for the full 2 mins. I haven't used these before, but on first read it would seem you get your absorb used up and then the fire resist buff is gone. Thanks.
youakim
Guest
Playing with more diverse classes that utilize CC to score a kill adds more skill than pressing a single button and gaining powerful buffs. It's extremely simple, but very hard to understand why you fail to realize that.
OP
OP
kratos
Xarbage
It's not a fire resist buff, it's pretty much just the AGM absorb bubble, but only for fire damage. The resist you have is from minor magical resistance pot, which if timed correctly, you could do;
One minute to gates opening, pop minor magical resist.
Gates open, pop Fire Protection Potion.
By the time you're engaging in mid, you have the cool down on potions reset for your speed pots/Faps, and you have one minute with a AGM (or larger) sized bubble against fire damage, with their damage already being reduced by the minor magical resist potion you would have on, that would still have one minute left.
Zobber
Legend
If one were to read this thread without having any knowledge of the bracket it might lead one to perhaps believe that organized matches between guilds was common. I may be wrong but I believe this not to be the case.
I agree with Crit on most of his points. The 19s are full of guilds with their own rules of engagement with the intent to tailor make games to fit their playstyles. The result is a lack of agreement and no games, or very few. The main reason for this is a very childlike fear of failure. This mindset seems to be appearing here too.
I say: STFU and play. So what if you lose a bunch of games while learning when to use which consumable. If you lose a game your dick doesn't get cut off. To hell with the player imposed limitations. I would much rather play a premade, have fun and lose than to just read about premades maybe happening if some kind of limiting accord is reached.
I agree with Crit on most of his points. The 19s are full of guilds with their own rules of engagement with the intent to tailor make games to fit their playstyles. The result is a lack of agreement and no games, or very few. The main reason for this is a very childlike fear of failure. This mindset seems to be appearing here too.
I say: STFU and play. So what if you lose a bunch of games while learning when to use which consumable. If you lose a game your dick doesn't get cut off. To hell with the player imposed limitations. I would much rather play a premade, have fun and lose than to just read about premades maybe happening if some kind of limiting accord is reached.
Crit
OG
We are not proposing you play with less diverse classes. CC still has merit. Contrary to your extreme suggestion that one potion invalidates playing whole classes it simply makes playing them more of a challenge. What is obvious is that you strongly believe that consumables are way more powerful than they are. And you say you are looking for a challenge...
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Crit
OG
Yes, I just quoted myself.
Here is another one you might dwell on...
Quoted for emphasis...
Wincisive
Legend
Assuming that Myaahh is your A-team priest will you guys play us because he is more than dodgy enough for your whole guild
zaxxo1
Legend
Crit, I'm afraid I just don't see where you're coming from. You say potions add more buttons, and therefore skill correct? But as it has been pointed out, some things that need the highest amount of skill in this bracket use no buttons at all, whereas some of the least skillful tactics use far more buttons. Also, the use of potions such as FaP's and resist potions actually negate the need to use other buttons, therefore decreasing the number of buttons used. Why bother using arcane torrent to prevent that poly when you can run through it? Do I need to use LoS to stop that fear when it will almost certainly be resisted? Trinket, no thanks. Disengage away from fire mage range, obviously not. Do you see where I'm coming from? More op buttons equals less use for more average abilities. I won't deny that there is a skill in learning to use these potions, but there has got to be more skill in learning how to use several less OP buttons.
If you're looking for a game where skill is the thing you want to display most, I can't see how potions are a display of that skill. If you're looking for a game where you can faceroll, /lol and not worry about anything, these potions are you number one trick.
As for your suggestion that these potions are good because they make other classes more of a challenge to play, surely even you can see where human nature will come into that. People will stop playing cc heavy classes and magic classes, because it will eventually become frustrating to have to play perfectly to counter someone pressing one button and negating there main source of power. Of course it makes it more of a challenge, but it does it to too much of an extent, it makes the lure of tunneling classes too strong, because with the potions, they require less skill to play.
No doubt you will contradict me in some way, but I think the basis of your argument is flawed in the fact that you claim that people are being too narrow sighted, and yet you manage to see things from only your point of view.
Believe me when I say I understand the lure of these potions, and no doubt there will be times when I wish I could use them, but I think in a bracket that should be based predominantly on skill, they have little or no place.
If you read all of this, then thank you
~Zaxxo
If you're looking for a game where skill is the thing you want to display most, I can't see how potions are a display of that skill. If you're looking for a game where you can faceroll, /lol and not worry about anything, these potions are you number one trick.
As for your suggestion that these potions are good because they make other classes more of a challenge to play, surely even you can see where human nature will come into that. People will stop playing cc heavy classes and magic classes, because it will eventually become frustrating to have to play perfectly to counter someone pressing one button and negating there main source of power. Of course it makes it more of a challenge, but it does it to too much of an extent, it makes the lure of tunneling classes too strong, because with the potions, they require less skill to play.
No doubt you will contradict me in some way, but I think the basis of your argument is flawed in the fact that you claim that people are being too narrow sighted, and yet you manage to see things from only your point of view.
Believe me when I say I understand the lure of these potions, and no doubt there will be times when I wish I could use them, but I think in a bracket that should be based predominantly on skill, they have little or no place.
If you read all of this, then thank you
~Zaxxo
Honey Badger
OG
i love everyone who is a f2p 20's , p2p 20's or people who in a million years will never premade have an opinion. CC is looking for premades if you agree with there terms premade them. People that are just opening up on Crit and saying they want more evidence. To each their own people . Lets just agree to disagree.
Vote and move on...
90% of this thread won't change anyones mind. Most had their minds made up along time ago.
Vote and move on...
90% of this thread won't change anyones mind. Most had their minds made up along time ago.
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OP
OP
kratos
Xarbage
I'd hardly say this thread is limited to the opinion of only those who are premading. The discussion being presented is to hear everyone's opinion on to whether or not consumables should be allowed in a premade, and reasons as to why. You don't need to premade to have an opinion on the affect consumables have in a game.
Lil
SV huntard
I love 24s who wont accept a trials opinion when trials make up this bracket. I recall beating your premade of 3-5 a couple times with my premade WHILE you popped your FaP every chance you had. This thread is in the 20-24 bracket and I recall being a 20, now if this was in the 19 bracket or the 80 bracket I obviously wouldn't vote.
sevenohseven
objectives or gtfo
as long as its not gotten through exploiting or haxx, everything goes. if you dont want to be bothered to farm mats, then too bad. someone else might and they shoudnt have to dumb down their game to play with kid gloves on.
twinking is as twinking does.
twinking is as twinking does.
Nohealsforju
Legend
War =/= Video game
I am all for taking all advantages to win Wars but this is a Video game it is suppose to be competitive.
Okay let's make a real life comparison to WoW.
Hey the Olympics are going on and the Olympics banned Performance enhancing Drugs.
Hey just because some one can use it and can afford it and took the time to get it they should use it. The people who didn't take the time to get it are at a disadvantage just because they didn't want to get some drugs to be better at their event....
Btw in the olympics there is nothing stopping the athletes from using performance enhancing drugs if they can get away with it. But it is frowned upon and results in much wider disgrace.
Imo this is how it should be in Premades it is competitive and fair. The people with most skill should win. usual people play best 2/3 to rule out "lucky crit" to see who is the true victor.
Isn't it obvious that these consumables would not make games fun Magical resist potion lasts 3 minutes leaving potions with 1 minute CD now you can use this before you leave the gate or for an FC before they grab the flag to allow them to use FaP then all they have to do is stay in combat for some time to counter the sap. Boom FC can pass through middle with nearly no way of being stopped unless the team can truck him down before he/she gets away which would be unlikely.
Also, you guys keep saying it is allowed in BGs Blizzard says it is okay.
Well ya it is allowed like in the example it is allowed in competition(if you can get away with it) but it should be frowned upon. I guess you guys have missed the point of the thread we are talking about Guild versus Guild competition not some random PuG where using the consumables are mkay with every one since hey you have them go ahead and use them.
This is the point the OP is trying to make we want Guild versus Guild or Real ID versus Real ID (or any future competitive premade) games to be at a much higher standard than PuGs because PuGs are always a mess and are flooded with Hunters. That is the last thing i want to see premades become a hunter fest.
I am all for taking all advantages to win Wars but this is a Video game it is suppose to be competitive.
Okay let's make a real life comparison to WoW.
Hey the Olympics are going on and the Olympics banned Performance enhancing Drugs.
Hey just because some one can use it and can afford it and took the time to get it they should use it. The people who didn't take the time to get it are at a disadvantage just because they didn't want to get some drugs to be better at their event....
Btw in the olympics there is nothing stopping the athletes from using performance enhancing drugs if they can get away with it. But it is frowned upon and results in much wider disgrace.
Imo this is how it should be in Premades it is competitive and fair. The people with most skill should win. usual people play best 2/3 to rule out "lucky crit" to see who is the true victor.
Isn't it obvious that these consumables would not make games fun Magical resist potion lasts 3 minutes leaving potions with 1 minute CD now you can use this before you leave the gate or for an FC before they grab the flag to allow them to use FaP then all they have to do is stay in combat for some time to counter the sap. Boom FC can pass through middle with nearly no way of being stopped unless the team can truck him down before he/she gets away which would be unlikely.
Also, you guys keep saying it is allowed in BGs Blizzard says it is okay.
Well ya it is allowed like in the example it is allowed in competition(if you can get away with it) but it should be frowned upon. I guess you guys have missed the point of the thread we are talking about Guild versus Guild competition not some random PuG where using the consumables are mkay with every one since hey you have them go ahead and use them.
This is the point the OP is trying to make we want Guild versus Guild or Real ID versus Real ID (or any future competitive premade) games to be at a much higher standard than PuGs because PuGs are always a mess and are flooded with Hunters. That is the last thing i want to see premades become a hunter fest.
Ertai
OG
It's not even really a question of skill in my eyes, WoW isn't the most skilled game and low leveling twinking isn't the most skilled aspect of the game.
It's the fact that the consumables in question would make a 10v10 less fun. In a pug a FaP at the right time can change a game, let an FC get away, result in more tense action. In a premade where they're being abused by everyone at every turn, it just gets boring.
It's the fact that the consumables in question would make a 10v10 less fun. In a pug a FaP at the right time can change a game, let an FC get away, result in more tense action. In a premade where they're being abused by everyone at every turn, it just gets boring.
sevenohseven
objectives or gtfo
lets all remove pieces of gear that others dont have then too. its not fair some of you have gnomer rings and mine havent dropped. i dont have it so you cant use yours.
OP
OP
kratos
Xarbage
Crit
OG
How would you know? (Rhetorical)
You have never done one to know. I however have done many. One premade versus an alliance guild from Lightbringer called Annihilation had me a leper gnome at least 50% of the game. Crazy good fun. But again, we were not afraid to lose and neither were they. The negotiations for the game were brief as no one tried to spin reasons to frame a victory before it started. That is fun you will never know.
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