[Serious] Legion class changes and further discussion

[Bop]

There is no such blue post. It is however implied. The only reason that enchants and trinkets are removed from lvl 110 is because you are assigned stats based on your spec and you have access to pvp talents that compensate for the loss of choice from enchants / trinkets.

The entire system is only for lvl 110. To cherry pick parts of this system and then hope that they apply to low levels is just wishful thinking. If you do not have access to pvp talents and assigned stats then there is no logical reason to block enchants / trinkets (from blizzard's perspective).

That's a logical conclusion. I think we both would agree that Blizzard spends very little (if any) energy thinking about low level PvP.

However, I might add that the same logic that leads to the conclusion that Blizzard would not block enchants or trinkets at low level PvP might also be used to conclude that Blizzard might not specifically turn on enchants or trinkets at low level PvP.

Somewhere either you or I must make a jump in logic to reach our conclusions. Yours is that they activate the changes regarding enchants and trinkets only for level 110 PvP, leaving the other brackets as they were. Mine is that the changes to enchants and trinkets are not tailored for level 110 PvP, but will be coded to affect all brackets without care.

I think both conclusions require about the same number of assumptions, and they both fit into the perspective that Blizzard does not care about low level PvP.

I'd like to excuse myself from bias regarding the issue of enchants in this bracket. At the very worst, the way that enchants influence our bracket will be no different than it is now I am not worried, only certain that the only thing we know right now is how little we know.

 

[raziel83]

I agree, and that would be my point.

All is variable until patch day

Always remember that, folks.

Yes all is variable however it is highly improbable that enchants / trinkets will be blocked from non-max pvp. Just look at this quote " In Legion, there will be no active trinkets, no set bonuses, no enchants in PvP. That sense of “choice” comes from the PvP talent system " Wowhead Weekly #47: 6.2.2 PTR and Holiday Updates, 6.2 Hotfixes, Holinka on Legion PvP - Wowhead News

If there is no pvp talent system (lvl 10-109) then blocking enchants / trinkets makes zero sense as it eliminates all choice.


edit; oh just read your above post. That's a fair point. However I still believe they won't touch anything sub 110. The same level & gear scaling with remain in place imo.

 

[LennywBT]

There is no Shirt Tab, or a Tabard's tab so far. I only see Wardrobe. Twitch 1:23:00

 

[LennywBT]

I agree, and that would be my point.

All is variable until patch day

Always remember that, folks.

Unless one of us gets a chance to hop into Beta!

 

[Leek]

There is no Shirt Tab, or a Tabard's tab so far. I only see Wardrobe. Twitch 1:23:00

Checkered cube helm mog 10/10 ( yes I know it's a template)

 

[Bop]

Unless one of us gets a chance to hop into Beta!

Hehe, even then - no promises.

Several talents reference spells that do not currently exist (Fire Mage, Survival Hunter, Holy Priest, Destruction Warlock come to mind).

I think it would be unlikely even by blizzard's standards to make one of the three first talents for a specialization reference a spell that does not even exist yet.

I would appreciate if someone with access to Twitter were able to ask a GM if they plan to implement the spells for which these talents reference.

However, until they respond in negation, I imagine that it is more probable than not that these spells will be eventually implemented.

 

[Quint]

I don't understand your hype about these changes. The redesigned survival hunter and combat rogue look interesting. But overall, it's a huge disappointment for me:

- Tons of our abilities will be removed, or get 20+ level requirement.
- The cooldowns will be longer.
- Most of the new abilities are reserved for higher levels.
- 29s will be op as hell: they will get the most powerful, clearly the facerolling abilities. Cheap Shot, should I say more?

For example, I checked the holy paladin's fate:

- Cleanse belong to P2P. Cleansing was the main reason why I loved to play as paladin.
- Lay on Hands belong to P2P.
- Word of Glory removed.
- Seal of Command removed.
- Righteous Fury is prot only.
- Reckoning is prot only.
- Holy Shock has 8 sec cooldown (up from 6).
- Judgment has 12 sec cooldown (up from 6), however causes a bit more damage.
- Divine Intervention is a new passive. That SUCKS! This ability will waste your Divine Shield. It's like DS would become autocast, but you can't turn it off. When you really need DS, mostly it will be under cooldown.
- No more Speed of Light, Long Arm of the Law, Pursuit of Justice. We lost all movement speed boosts: it will be harder to escape from melees, to reach the healing range, slower to carry the flag.
- ZERO new spell!
+ Light's Hammer: a level 90 talent, an AOE healing, the rogue's nightmare will be available at level 15!? I have no doubt Blizzard will remove it, as soon as they realize what have they done.

I know, nothing is final yet. Nevertheless, I'm not impressed at all.

 

[Björke]

Oh lemmi gues...
a 29 prick came down from chair with noose in his hands jumping around with happy face,
since he no longer have to kill himself due to small possibility of still being able to rek some little kids in future.

every major changes (acc wide mounts/pets/toys/ ect) was available to everyone. regardless of account status.
starters could use new bg ui that was implemented not so far ago.
if we don't get new honor system with all its perks then there must be a substitute.

having 2 systems for one things is not a best way in terms of resources management.

I agree. Cant imagine them rolling with 2 systems. Maybe the amount of abilities you can get increases with your level so that we might only get 1 or 2.
We can only hope enchs become a thing of the past!

 

[Vehemity]

I don't understand your hype about these changes. The redesigned survival hunter and combat rogue look interesting. But overall, it's a huge disappointment for me:

- Tons of our abilities will be removed, or get 20+ level requirement.
- The cooldowns will be longer.
- Most of the new abilities are reserved for higher levels.
- 29s will be op as hell: they will get the most powerful, clearly the facerolling abilities. Cheap Shot, should I say more?

For example, I checked the holy paladin's fate:

- Cleanse belong to P2P. Cleansing was the main reason why I loved to play as paladin.
- Lay on Hands belong to P2P.
- Word of Glory removed.
- Seal of Command removed.
- Righteous Fury is prot only.
- Reckoning is prot only.
- Holy Shock has 8 sec cooldown (up from 6).
- Judgment has 12 sec cooldown (up from 6), however causes a bit more damage.
- Divine Intervention is a new passive. That SUCKS! This ability will waste your Divine Shield. It's like DS would become autocast, but you can't turn it off. When you really need DS, mostly it will be under cooldown.
- No more Speed of Light, Long Arm of the Law, Pursuit of Justice. We lost all movement speed boosts: it will be harder to escape from melees, to reach the healing range, slower to carry the flag.
- ZERO new spell!
+ Light's Hammer: a level 90 talent, an AOE healing, the rogue's nightmare will be available at level 15!? I have no doubt Blizzard will remove it, as soon as they realize what have they done.

I know, nothing is final yet. Nevertheless, I'm not impressed at all.

Divine intervention will >Never< waste your bubble, since it will only activate on a "killing blow", so you would have been dead anyway.

 

[AlbinoCow]

Divine intervention will >Never< waste your bubble, since it will only activate on a "killing blow", so you would have been dead anyway.

That's what he's talking about i believe. There are many times you wanna keep your bubble for a more key time rather than your first death

 

[SPQR]

I agree. Cant imagine them rolling with 2 systems. Maybe the amount of abilities you can get increases with your level so that we might only get 1 or 2.
We can only hope enchs become a thing of the past!

They got most of source code with scaling already and it has been so for a while.
even during talent exploit all those spells was scaled down to player level.
I can see blizz geting butthurt about prestige/max amount of talents for bellow max lvl characters (as they always do on such matters)
but in general - it will be one system for all and it will scale down bellow endgame.

The " oh they dont care about low level " is not really true as it is still same game.

That tweet is probably a miscommunication as always.

 

[Vehemity]

That's what he's talking about i believe. There are many times you wanna keep your bubble for a more key time rather than your first death

Oh right, wsg frame of mind vs skirmish ^^ nvm!

 

[Hashbrowns]

Holy crap the artifact druid forms are awesome...

https://youtu.be/Wv_S7MR2P5QQ

Sadly until they stop giving everything away in welfare gear and make things difficult and rare again.... They will mean nothing.

 

[Quint]

Say goodbye forever to her naughty ass. Use the kiss emote on her last time. She has forgotten to lock her XP.

I have always known this will happen. Every time, when max level grows: less and less spells remain in the 0..20 range. Some expansions later, we will end up with level 1 abilities.

 

[Brov]

Divine intervention will >Never< waste your bubble, since it will only activate on a "killing blow", so you would have been dead anyway.

maaan.. think harder

this change isn't making it to live

 

[raziel83]

So it's confirmed that low levels get a stat template. Meaning your stats come from your spec and not your gear.

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/671499968079785984

Q. Will the PvP gear stat template be available for lower levels? Or will our gear in PvP be the PvE stats at lower levels?

Blizz - The PvP stat templates will apply at lower levels (and scale accordingly).

Q. Will iLvL have any impact on lower level PvP, or will the scaling take care of any difference in stats?

Blizz - Scaling at lower levels will occur in a similar manner to max level.

^ Means that max ilvl gear will be BIS. Kor'kron dark shaman armor (8 pieces of ilvl 500) and bottled tornado (ilvl 400) will be OP.

 

[Trialmop]

I don't understand your hype about these changes. The redesigned survival hunter and combat rogue look interesting. But overall, it's a huge disappointment for me:

- Tons of our abilities will be removed, or get 20+ level requirement.
- The cooldowns will be longer.
- Most of the new abilities are reserved for higher levels.
- 29s will be op as hell: they will get the most powerful, clearly the facerolling abilities. Cheap Shot, should I say more?

For example, I checked the holy paladin's fate:

- Cleanse belong to P2P. Cleansing was the main reason why I loved to play as paladin.
- Lay on Hands belong to P2P.
- Word of Glory removed.
- Seal of Command removed.
- Righteous Fury is prot only.
- Reckoning is prot only.
- Holy Shock has 8 sec cooldown (up from 6).
- Judgment has 12 sec cooldown (up from 6), however causes a bit more damage.
- Divine Intervention is a new passive. That SUCKS! This ability will waste your Divine Shield. It's like DS would become autocast, but you can't turn it off. When you really need DS, mostly it will be under cooldown.
- No more Speed of Light, Long Arm of the Law, Pursuit of Justice. We lost all movement speed boosts: it will be harder to escape from melees, to reach the healing range, slower to carry the flag.
- ZERO new spell!
+ Light's Hammer: a level 90 talent, an AOE healing, the rogue's nightmare will be available at level 15!? I have no doubt Blizzard will remove it, as soon as they realize what have they done.

I know, nothing is final yet. Nevertheless, I'm not impressed at all.

At 20 Hpals were unimpressive in cata | in mop they were good and OP in 5.0 | in Wod they are not that good. So im slightly use to Hpals coming and going.

 

[Spiriel]

At 20 Hpals were unimpressive in cata

The Crossheal-ability with Protector of the Innocent was a unique mechanic and actually rly impressive (Holy Light one target, Shock a second, heal yourself for a percentage of it as third in 1 GCD).
I go with [MENTION=24555]Quint[/MENTION] on his stated point for Legion. Cant get any more boring.

 

[Trialmop]

The Crossheal-ability with Protector of the Innocent was a unique mechanic and actually rly impressive (Holy Light one target, Shock a second, heal yourself for a percentage of it as third in 1 GCD).
I go with [MENTION=24555]Quint[/MENTION] on his stated point for Legion. Cant get any more boring.

They weren't great healers still.

 

[Leek]

Lol gotta feel bad for those who rely on enchants to do shit now that the template is real