Salute, Nat Pagle's.

[Druiddroid]

lol people dont make 19 pvp chars with no enchants and bad gear, they make them stacked with the best possible gear and chants so were not on an even footing with everyone. as for the 3.1 changes, everyone can get enchants for little to no gold. people will use them to level faster as well as twink.

i make them to be on even footing with other twinks.



usually someone who makes twinks to be better than everyone else isn't really that great a player, from my experience.



anyways, i'm going to enjoy the skill-based play and allowability of creating 10 twinks for very small amounts of gold.

 

[Unstablle]

i make them to be on even footing with other twinks.



usually someone who makes twinks to be better than everyone else isn't really that great a player, from my experience.



anyways, i'm going to enjoy the skill-based play and allowability of creating 10 twinks for very small amounts of gold.

yeah im all for making it cheaper, and believe me, im not just out there to be better than everyone else. this just takes the term twink away imo. its just bracket camping now.

 

[Rayekk]

Here's a different question: Will the lower-level BG's survive this patch? I’m already sitting in the queue for up to 20 minutes in the 19’s, sometimes even more on the 29’s, and that’s with groups consisting of half to two-thirds twinks. With all these changes, and the amount of twinks claiming to retire due to the change, or because of the perceived insults, I wonder if we’ll start seeing queue’s over 30 minutes. That, my friend, is going to keep me from twinking. I mean, why wait for 30 minutes when I can level a character, sell trade skills, Wintergrasp, or a hundred other things that don’t involve me wanting to carve my eyes out with a dull putty knife. Granted, the “queue from anywhere feature” may bring in more PvE visitors, but I hardly think that we’ll see the mass influx these changes are meant to level the field for.



Twinking is dead, long live twinking?

 

[Druiddroid]

yeah im all for making it cheaper, and believe me, im not just out there to be better than everyone else. this just takes the term twink away imo. its just bracket camping now.

i figure that to be a good thing.

 

[Druiddroid]

Here's a different question: Will the lower-level BG's survive this patch? I’m already sitting in the queue for up to 20 minutes in the 19’s, sometimes even more on the 29’s, and that’s with groups consisting of half to two-thirds twinks. With all these changes, and the amount of twinks claiming to retire due to the change, or because of the perceived insults, I wonder if we’ll start seeing queue’s over 30 minutes.

your long Q times are most likely caused by



1) wrong faction (the other faction has instant queues because your faction dominates)

2) no puggers (twinks have overinfested the battlegrounds and all puggers are discouraged from joining)



if cause two is happening, then more puggers will come queue for BGs.



all i know is that if i switch from faction to faction in the same bracket/BG, i can get under 3 minute queue times 99% of the time after 3:00 PM.

 

[Rayekk]

your long Q times are most likely caused by



1) wrong faction (the other faction has instant queues because your faction dominates)

2) no puggers (twinks have overinfested the battlegrounds and all puggers are discouraged from joining)



if cause two is happening, then more puggers will come queue for BGs.



all i know is that if i switch from faction to faction in the same bracket/BG, i can get under 3 minute queue times 99% of the time after 3:00 PM.

Hummmm- interesting- I'll have to ponder this a bit. I say that, mostly because I’m Alliance (not exactly known for dominating ANYTHING ;P), that we’re not dominating- most likely the PuG statement is closer to our BG’s situation….. But since I have no more room on my account, I can’t really level a Horde and test it without deleting or banishing one of my other characters (my poor, poor 63 warlock currently rots on Thorium Brotherhood).



As much as I HATE to admit it, you do make valid points to the pro-nerf argument. If you take the nerfs and add the instant PvP queue from anywhere, you could see an influx of new, fresh PvP faces. As it stands, my rogue will be dropping from 2291 hp to about 1200/1300 hp post 3.1 (unless they nerf more enchants & take my fishing hat away too) so there will still be an advantage over the visiting PvPer- My greatest fear though, is Hunters becoming so OP that all we see are premades with seven hunters, a paladin, rogue and shaman. Does anyone think that’ll be fun?



Even so, I still do feel I have a sense of (deserved in my mind) entitlement to at least wear my fishing gear if I want to.

 

[Maj]

I don't know man, the best part about gearing a twink to me, is to OUTGEAR the hell out of everyone else. I want to be THAT guy running around with 3K health at 19s or 4200 HP at 29s. So everyone is like F that, I'm not even going near THAT guy.



I want to be THAT guy making the opposite faction be like "{Battleground}: WTF!!!! 4200 @^*&ing HPs?!!! you have to be ^#%$ing me!!!" lol



Personally to me, a huge part of the fun of twinking is the ridiculousness factor of over gearing/over enchanting the hell out of other people. Call me crazy druid, but its a game, and to me thats part of the fun factor. Sure it sucks being on the receiving end of GY camping twinks, but heck, it's also fun to run around 1shotting those 200 HP level 11 guys.

 

[Flagadin]

1. Quit the swearing please.

2. Only playing with me gives you the right to comment on my playstyle/skills.

3. Holy paladins don't do a lot of damage.

4. It's not: "Your awful", it's "You are/ You're awful"

5. Read Druiddroid's comment, he knows how to react. Your comment is utterly useless, so /ignore that. Just making my point, not asking for insults.

6. Go grind some decency, you've got a long road ahead of you...

 

[Rayekk]

Can I ask who that's addressed to Flag? also:

6. Go grind some decency, you've got a long road ahead of you...

EPIC WIN!

 

[Maj]

Well I hope it wasn't me, I tried to filter my swearing with my clever use of the shift key lol.

 

[Unstablle]

I don't know man, the best part about gearing a twink to me, is to OUTGEAR the hell out of everyone else. I want to be THAT guy running around with 3K health at 19s or 4200 HP at 29s. So everyone is like F that, I'm not even going near THAT guy.



I want to be THAT guy making the opposite faction be like "{Battleground}: WTF!!!! 4200 @^*&ing HPs?!!! you have to be ^#%$ing me!!!" lol



Personally to me, a huge part of the fun of twinking is the ridiculousness factor of over gearing/over enchanting the hell out of other people. Call me crazy druid, but its a game, and to me thats part of the fun factor. Sure it sucks being on the receiving end of GY camping twinks, but heck, it's also fun to run around 1shotting those 200 HP level 11 guys.

I agree with you for the mmost part. all of these changes to the lower brackets would be just like giving all 80s identical gear once they ding so theyre all on an even base. Part of the enjoyment in any bracket is gearing out your char to the fullest, whether it be with dm gear, revelosh drops or arena gear/naxx gear. Work hard for the gear and chants and you deserve them imo. This especially also applies to the fishing boots

 

[Druiddroid]

I agree with you for the mmost part. all of these changes to the lower brackets would be just like giving all 80s identical gear once they ding so theyre all on an even base.

exactly.



that's not how 80 is. so i don't like 80. i like fair grounds. twink vs twink provides that, although puggers are of course left in the dust.

Part of the enjoyment in any bracket is gearing out your char to the fullest, whether it be with dm gear, revelosh drops or arena gear/naxx gear. Work hard for the gear and chants and you deserve them imo. This especially also applies to the fishing boots

i'd rather not work for them TBH : /

 

[Druiddroid]

Hummmm- interesting- I'll have to ponder this a bit. I say that, mostly because I’m Alliance (not exactly known for dominating ANYTHING ;P), that we’re not dominating- most likely the PuG statement is closer to our BG’s situation….. But since I have no more room on my account, I can’t really level a Horde and test it without deleting or banishing one of my other characters (my poor, poor 63 warlock currently rots on Thorium Brotherhood).

i'm almost positive that it's your faction giving you long queue times.



if you have at least two WSGs running at any given point after 3:00 PM, then it's your faction that's giving you long Q times. if you see zero WSGs up for 20 minutes, then that means it's the activity.



just try to get a horde character to level 10. there's like 10-12 servers per battlegroup.

 

[ØhnØes]

Less QQ more pew pew imo, dont give to blizzards stupid antics, I myself have a 19 lock and rogue fishing geard toons, yet it doesnt rly bother me, I play to pwn.. there is allways going to be changes.. just deal with them.



Twinks will never die,.... Unless they introduce XP to BG's

 

[Unstablle]

exactly.



that's not how 80 is. so i don't like 80. i like fair grounds. twink vs twink provides that, although puggers are of course left in the dust.



i'd rather not work for them TBH : /

yeah 80 does suck. but what they're doing is completely changing the way the game is played, at least for us twinks. i don't think its so much of a gear issue for 80s that makes it dumb to play them, it's the extreme inbalance in pvp that is nowhere near as bad as any twink bracket. ill bring up an argument that has been used frequently. any bracket, 19 or 80 is going to have undergeared players. this will force you to compete with the better geared and skilled players of the enemy team. the undergeared players are at a disadvantage but can still make an impact. one of the best healers ive played with was a level 16 pally lol. she kept me up like she was a fully twinked priest.

and you can easily make enough money to twink a char out, even if you dont have an 80. i made a fully twinked 39 rogue and 39 lock, and a fully twinked 19 rogue and hunter on one server with noone higher than 39. just gotta play the ah and sell cloth, boes, etc. so changing the way the game has been for us for the longest time is kind of ruining it for me.

 

[Druiddroid]

but what they're doing is completely changing the way the game is played, at least for us twinks.

correct, and those that are good will adapt. it should be interesting.

i don't think its so much of a gear issue for 80s that makes it dumb to play them, it's the extreme inbalance in pvp that is nowhere near as bad as any twink bracket.

no, it's not that bad. 3k health vs 400 health, as compared to what 80 has (idk what 80, it's not that bad though)? cmon. the twinks have the upper advantage.



also, not to mention, even after 3.1 there will be twinks. so the twinks will still have the advantages. it will just be closer to the advantages that higher level brackets have, rather than having 750% more health than a random pug.

ill bring up an argument that has been used frequently. any bracket, 19 or 80 is going to have undergeared players. this will force you to compete with the better geared and skilled players of the enemy team. the undergeared players are at a disadvantage but can still make an impact. one of the best healers ive played with was a level 16 pally lol. she kept me up like she was a fully twinked priest.

a 16 paladin won't keep you up like a fully twinked priest. at least if the priest isn't stupid.



sure, undergeared players can make an impact. but only if they're skilled. if a twink isn't skilled, it can still make an impact. i've seen so many retarded S key humping hunters that don't even know how to rotate their shots. in fact, most hunters don't know what wingclip is. and yet they make a huge impact.

and you can easily make enough money to twink a char out, even if you dont have an 80. i made a fully twinked 39 rogue and 39 lock, and a fully twinked 19 rogue and hunter on one server with noone higher than 39. just gotta play the ah and sell cloth, boes, etc. so changing the way the game has been for us for the longest time is kind of ruining it for me.

i'm not sure what cheaper twinking will ruin for you. now you don't have to play the AH as much if you don't want to. but if you have a fetish for doing so, then by all means keep doing it.

 

[Unstablle]

correct, and those that are good will adapt. it should be interesting.



no, it's not that bad. 3k health vs 400 health, as compared to what 80 has (idk what 80, it's not that bad though)? cmon. the twinks have the upper advantage.



also, not to mention, even after 3.1 there will be twinks. so the twinks will still have the advantages. it will just be closer to the advantages that higher level brackets have, rather than having 750% more health than a random pug.



a 16 paladin won't keep you up like a fully twinked priest. at least if the priest isn't stupid.



sure, undergeared players can make an impact. but only if they're skilled. if a twink isn't skilled, it can still make an impact. i've seen so many retarded S key humping hunters that don't even know how to rotate their shots. in fact, most hunters don't know what wingclip is. and yet they make a huge impact.



i'm not sure what cheaper twinking will ruin for you. now you don't have to play the AH as much if you don't want to. but if you have a fetish for doing so, then by all means keep doing it.

i was just as surprised as you were about the 16 pally lol. he could heal like no other ive seen, at least non twinked. you had to see it to believe it. and with 80s its easy to get alot of health. its resi and w/e other stats are important that makes the gear good for pvp.

and i will adapt, i just don't like these changes at all. ive been so used to the great system that is twinking. you know exactly what kind of gear you need, what enchanting mats to gather, the leg armor, BoEs, etc. alot of this is going away. for us old twinks with no exp room left, we may be unable to get some BoP quest items (pertains to leggings mostly) which will put us at a disadvantage. the cheaper enchants will be nice though, but i really dont wanna remake some of my twinks. i got battle standards w/o wintergrasp and some tough to get items (e.g. 3/3 wranglers, shadowfang, etc.) that i enjoyed earning the fair way, whether it be doing warsong a ton or paying alot of gold or getting lucky. putting us old twinks at a disadvantage, especially those that transferred to a different realm or whatever it may be, can definitely ruin it for alot of people. i dont see why all of this has to go into effect. it was working fine for us all along, we all enjoyed, now its a split opinion where some hate it and some like it. but the sad thing is is that there is probably alot more changes to come at this rate

 

[Unstablle]

i do agree hunters deserve a nerf, the bad ones make an impact and the good hunters are game changing. and the sad thing is, like you said, that most dont know shot rotation or what wing clip is. i love when warriors dont know how to hamstring though

 

[Druiddroid]

i was just as surprised as you were about the 16 pally lol. he could heal like no other ive seen, at least non twinked. you had to see it to believe it. and with 80s its easy to get alot of health. its resi and w/e other stats are important that makes the gear good for pvp.

i've been healed by plenty of pugs. yes, their heals are very crucial and can seem really good. heals are much higher per mana than DPS abilities.



when compared to a fully twinked 19 priest though, that ~800 mana pool of the paladin's will go away quickly. the priest can heal for long periods of time.

and i will adapt, i just don't like these changes at all. ive been so used to the great system that is twinking. you know exactly what kind of gear you need, what enchanting mats to gather, the leg armor, BoEs, etc. alot of this is going away. for us old twinks with no exp room left, we may be unable to get some BoP quest items (pertains to leggings mostly) which will put us at a disadvantage. the cheaper enchants will be nice though, but i got battle standards w/o wintergrasp and some tough to get items (e.g. 3/3 wranglers, shadowfang, etc.) that i enjoyed earning the fair way, whether it be doing warsong a ton or paying alot of gold or getting lucky. putting us old twinks at a disadvantage, especially those that transferred to a different realm or whatever it may be, can definitely ruin it for alot of people. i dont see why all of this has to go into effect. it was working fine for us all along, we all enjoyed, now its a split opinion where some hate it and some like it. but the sad thing is is that there is probably alot more changes to come at this rate

yes, older twinks will have a disadvantage from not being able to get BoP leggings if they weren't wise with their EXP bar. yes, you got items the 'fair' way. yes, you might have to remake a twink if you want perfection.



again, it sucks that all this work is being taken away. it sucks that you might have to redo some work. i realize this.



i just want to focus on what this will do for BGs. i'd rather work at another twink than keep playing in BGs that have some people with 400 health and others with over 3k health unbuffed.



one other thing i will note is that if you planned your twink well, you should not have problems with leveling in aquiring the new BoP leggings. also, if you didn't plan your twink perfectly (myself included), you will still have similar stats, if not the same, to those who have the exp to get BoP leggings. it's not like a huge advantage BoP leggings gives you.

 

[Unstablle]

yeah but im basically a perfectionist. when i first made this hunter i forgot about a couple pieces, including screecher belt, and lavishly jeweled ring, which made me cry. then i had to go around and get 450 skinning which almost brought me to 20. i guess ill stick with darkweave breeches, as ill be speccing careful aim since imp wing clip is gone in 3.1. im just mad that some hard to get pieces are nearly impossible to get now, especially shadowfang. no SFs have been on my server for 3 months, and the one before that was up in may of 2008. just aggravating the the older twinks are getting screwed again, just like professions.