Salute, Nat Pagle's.

i do agree on this... and again this change prooves my theory about blizzard wanting to to make lower level less about life and more about what class does what. you'll be seeing a lot less casters for sure, but its a good thing cause not everyone will be going flag carrying. in BG we are missing a few things when it comes to PUG, things like HEALING and FLAG CARRIERS. the reason being, 90% of the people do not play twinks for the balance and th efun it gives to actually win the BG, they play to own people and say "ha i cannot be killed, i rock and you suck lowbies !"



for my part i'm in the 10% that plays a hunter cause its a great dps and quite usefull for the team, i'm not trying to run flags, i barely does. my job is too DPS the flag carriers and to reduce their speed, catch them on their way when they are too far away form all the others. that's my job and i assume it all the way. just like my priest i'm gonna do at 19 after 3.1 hits live. i'll be healing and not doing anything else !



that and it brings back to the old saying "a level 1 shouldn'T be allowed to kill level 20 players" those who actually played level 1 twinks knows what i mean !
 
wow. i officialy hate blizzard now
 
Druiddroid said:
if you're a perfectly geared 14, you won't beat a perfectly geared 19 of the same skill level, pre-3.1 and post-3.1.
Click to expand...



I've always been able to be on par with fully twinked 19 rogues in my agility set, because the extra crit % I get from my skinning in combination with my HP and dodge is good enough for me to be a huge bother to 19's.
 
Rayekk said:
I guess that depends on how you look at it, and if you already have viable twink boots. For a hunter/rogue that has the fishing boots and not the Feet of the Lynx, they are certainly going to have to "grind" something, be it gold, or a specific boss, in order to remain competitive.
Click to expand...

yeah, just like another hunter/rogue that got Feet of the Lynx.



it's not like you're grinding back to 80. the amount of new items you'll need to get is minimal. as compared to what you need to do for BoAs or fishing gear, getting Feet of the Lynx is practically a cakewalk. you just need gold and need to check the AH now and then.



not to mention the amount of stats Feet of the Lynx gives you isn't going to make or break your twink. you'll be able to compete without them.

And while yes, LoS works with a hunter, it still is very environment-specific, and not a true "skill" component. My point: you cannot count on being able to LoS as you can a class ability, say like concessive shot + webs + hamstring + kite. Or range issues, or tracking stealth. In my opinion, if you really want to make the Skill>everything else, then you have to consider it pure; IE a duel using class skills and not being reliant on the environment.
Click to expand...

if you're skilled you'll know the environment around you and take advantage of it.



it's all about preparation and anticipation.
 
iaccidentallytwink said:
I've always been able to be on par with fully twinked 19 rogues in my agility set, because the extra crit % I get from my skinning in combination with my HP and dodge is good enough for me to be a huge bother to 19's.
Click to expand...

/shrug, it's your choice as to what you want to do when the patch hits. either you can continue attempting to kill level 19s, move to 19, or just not play.



who knows, even without fishing gear you might be able to compete against 19s. i mean all twinks are losing stuff.
 
Druiddroid said:
/shrug, it's your choice as to what you want to do when the patch hits. either you can continue attempting to kill level 19s, move to 19, or just not play.



who knows, even without fishing gear you might be able to compete against 19s. i mean all twinks are losing stuff.
Click to expand...



Oh I know, I'm probably going to retire my 15.

However, on the subject of 3.1, I'm planning on rerolling 19, I don't know how badly I will be affected by the next patch, but on the PTR I'm still decent against 19s, but the fishing gear is really a huge hit to my stats.



19s gain a lot less from professions and fishing gear and I gain a lot more so 10's get hit the hardest, 19s the least.
 
Eax said:
Skill > Gear.

Skill > Gear.

Skill > Gear.
Click to expand...



Let me fix that for you:



Ret > everything else

Rogue > everything else

Hunter > everything else





Have fun in your 3.1 bgs with 4 rets, 4 rogues and 2 hunters in every game.
 
ArthurianKnight said:
i do agree on this... and again this change prooves my theory about blizzard wanting to to make lower level less about life and more about what class does what. you'll be seeing a lot less casters for sure, but its a good thing cause not everyone will be going flag carrying. in BG we are missing a few things when it comes to PUG, things like HEALING and FLAG CARRIERS. the reason being, 90% of the people do not play twinks for the balance and th efun it gives to actually win the BG, they play to own people and say "ha i cannot be killed, i rock and you suck lowbies !"
Click to expand...



You do realize you are contradicting yourself here multiple times? It's a good thing that there will be less casters, but 2 seconds later you are complaining that there aren't enough healers?
 
Druiddroid said:
as compared to what you need to do for BoAs or fishing gear, getting Feet of the Lynx is practically a cakewalk. you just need gold and need to check the AH now and then.
Click to expand...



That's kinda my point- Farming the AH doesn't take any skill or determination, and it certainly doesn't require the sacrifice. Twinking used to be something that was fun, and had a certain level of prestige tied to it too; seeing the fishing gear or AGM has always been a badge of honor and dedication (at lest to me, in the 19’s). I'm upset that this decent (because w/o the surefooted enchant, they really are just decent) boots that I worked so hard to get are not only outdated now, but I can't even wear them?



It just seems like something a cruel, angry child would do to their sibling.
 
Druiddroid by the way you're posting it seems that the only reason you think this is a good thing is because you're too lazy to get them?



Keep in mind when reading this the correct answer for Blizzard is level requirement on BC enchants which they proved they are able to do with 100hp and all these other nerfs coming.



Not one person has put a valid arguement as to WHY fishing boots or fishing hat is unbalanced. So if it's not unbalanced, then why is it going to balance the bracket by taking them away? By balance you mean everyone has to get the same gear?



You Druid actually cited mining or herbalism or skinning against what I said was overpowered engineering. So lets disect that. You said you get a 700hp hot from herbalism. Ok but from engineering I get 80 extra max hp and 7 spirit to go along with it. As well I have bombs that can stun, take people out of stealth, and aoe burst dmg the masses. I also have pets that can fight for me or items to draw hunter pets away etc. Mining's buff is immediately negated by goggles, Skinning you can make an arguement if you really want crit, but 9 crit vs bombs you can use over n over waiting on a short cooldown? Herbalism is the best choice but one could argue Jewel Crafting over that as well. None of that is even close to the OP'ness of Engineering.



What about Heavy Runecloth? That's not overpowered? Just how many common leveling players in the 10-19s do you know that have 225 first aid and heavy runecloth bandages funded to them?



I'm begining to think everyone who agrees with Fishing gear/AGM nerf are agreeing just because they're lazy and don't want to put forth effort to play the game with hard to get gear for a level, not even necessarily best for that slot. There is no unbalance with them at all.



I know many people without fishing gear who obliterate the masses they see with fishing gear.



Sorry for the ramble I'm really just waiting for someone to prove the unbalance of fishing gear. AGM I won't argue against however.
 
Your right, there is nothing unbalanced with fishing gear/agm, but clearly blizzard is screwing with us. It really does upset me regarding the fishing gear, and i don't even have any twinks in the 10-19 bracket. I feel for you guys. :(
 
I'm with Mother Goose on this one (though, in his defense, Druiddriod has been consistent with his thoughts on skill>gear, and in his liking all the nerfs Bliz has incorporated into the PTR; he’s been for the leg patch, shoulder enchant, professions and enchanting nerfs from the get-go) and I'd like to see the actual argument as to how exactly the fishing gear is unbalanced in lower-level PvP. After all, both only feature one stat (Stam) and are only good for survivalilty. The boot’s true power came in the ability to accept BC enchants, and we know that’s going away, so why put a level requirement on the boots now? And, I dare say that if it was a balance issue, that the hat and AGM would be level-dependant.
 
Druiddroid said:
skill > class
Click to expand...



Dude, have you ever even played in these brackets, much less a twink? You build a non-hunter, (twink or non-twink) in the 19 bracket and show me how your skill will dominate the Hunter class. Or a rogue or pally for that matter.
 
Point well taken. If you go back and read through this thread though, you will see that I am calling a rude poster out. People that have put so much time into building a character do not need someone mocking them that they need to embrace gear balance and that their skill should overcome other classes. It's rude. Blizzard doesn't balance classes and we all know that. When my blood is boiling about these changes, rude posts are the last thing I want to see.
 
I have fished every single week for the past four months for my boots. I got my hat on my third week, and even though I didn't have a libram at the time, I started using it immediately. Yes, I chose to sacrifice 30 health just for the prestige of wearing the hat. To this day, in fact; it is probably my most important accomplishment. It isn't a matter of stats to me; it is something that sets you out from the crowd as someone truly dedicated to their twink, and I'm sure many people with the boots feel the same way. There is no logical reason for blizz to take these away, and if this makes it to live I will likely cancel my account and wait for Zuty to get his server up; not because I am afraid of loosing my advantage over other players, but because i refuse to support blizzard making all my hard work and effort meaningless for no reason.
 
Guess I can stop wasting my Sundays from 2-4 pm. lol



I am sorry to all of you that put in hours and hours to get these items just to have Blizz take them away with out what seems to be a legitimate reason. Balancing the 10-19 bracket for non twinks is just not an overriding concern, and never has been IMO. I too think its BS.



And druid, with all due respect, it doesn't matter if they're doing it to everyone across the board or not. It doesn't change the fact that those who put in hours and hours to get them are getting shafted.



If you work for 2 weeks and then you go pick up your paycheck and find out that the Company is closed down and you won't get paid at all, it doesn't make it sting any less because no one else who also worked is not getting paid too. It still sucks.
 
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