Intended?

[Chops]

yes im just recalling some ptsd since the last time i interacted with you i was hit with the "It's not up for argument. Stop posting it." and the "I told you this wasnt up for argument. This is not a debate."

Sounds like you were trying to continue posting something you were told was against the rules. bummer dude.

 

[Newaccount]

Sounds like you were trying to continue posting something you were told was against the rules. bummer dude.

see that would be a bummer if i was defending what i did but you see i was doing something called a joke you know? joking that you dont like people having opinions you dont agree with? joke as in funny.. funny yes. obviously you agree what someone jokes about isnt what they actually think right..? right?

 

[Chops]

i was doing something called a joke

joke as in funny..

 

[Newaccount]

doesnt think joke is funny = isnt a joke i guess..

 

[Fatßoß]

Not gonna lie I do puke a little when I see a debuffed hunter (of all classes) in a bg though

 

[toskosa]

I just wish they would let pure f2p que more then 2 dungeons.

 

[Zerofoxtrot]

I havn’t really bothered to read through most of the thread cuz this discussion is just stupid, if we go back to the original part about the user agreement we can see that it’s only an exploit or cheat if the method is not authorized by Blizzard, however playing BGs on a level 20 without gametime is authorized by them, which is why it has been possible for years without Blizzard doing anything about it, unlike the xpoff debuff which has been patched on like five occasions.

Now let’s pretend Blizzard isn’t authorizing playing BGs on a level 20 without gamtime, would it be an exploit then? No, since there are no advantages that a leveler couldn’t get, all the gear, enchants, gems and consumables that a VET has, any leveler could buy / farm.

Cheating: Create, use, offer, promote, advertise, make available and/or distribute the following or assist therein:

1. cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard (whether accomplished using hardware, software, a combination thereof, or otherwise), influencing and/or facilitating gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;

Actually, the last part of this is kind of the argument. There is gear that vets have that is not available to f2p. The legion ilvl 28 gear is not attainable by a f2p. Prior to this expansion, there were lots of professions/enchants that weren’t available either. Now, SL has made that gap much smaller, but to say vets have no advantages over f2p accounts in the “trial” bracket is just wrong.

 

[Somfas]

Someone said it. This is some kind of holy war that will never be settled on.

My final thought is this. If debuffing is the same level of scum as vet, why does somfas (and others) debuff premade outside of the 20-29 bracket.

Why not bring your talents to my bracket ?

I have a few times and it's just a war over kills and damage haha, yes, I love Godmode. In the 20s, I still just another twink but in the teens , I'm "THAT TWINK!" haha, just havin some faceroll fun makin the levelers cry to Blizzard Hoping that they will finally merge us all back together in xp off so we can leave all the levelers alone. The more brackets they have to face us in, the more chance Blizz will actually be forced to listen to the meowmeows and we will all have our glory back. Against each other, without levelers. <3 But till then, I will take my scummy tactics and forcefeed the levelers some twink pie <3, yeah I know, I'm a baddie, blah blah blah
[doublepost=1627539530,1627539430][/doublepost]

I remember when a lot of 20s were arguing that 29s were scummy and should leave the poor innocent 20s alone when xpon/xpoff were merged. Good to know the same 20s are still in denial about their own hypocrisy to this day. Like have you not heard of therapy get help already. It’s always been exploitative to twink if you’re in the same bgs/arenas as levelers that’s kind of the point.

well put

 

[Newaccount]

I havn’t really bothered to read through most of the thread cuz this discussion is just stupid, if we go back to the original part about the user agreement we can see that it’s only an exploit or cheat if the method is not authorized by Blizzard, however playing BGs on a level 20 without gametime is authorized by them, which is why it has been possible for years without Blizzard doing anything about it, unlike the xpoff debuff which has been patched on like five occasions.

Now let’s pretend Blizzard isn’t authorizing playing BGs on a level 20 without gamtime, would it be an exploit then? No, since there are no advantages that a leveler couldn’t get, all the gear, enchants, gems and consumables that a VET has, any leveler could buy / farm.

Cheating: Create, use, offer, promote, advertise, make available and/or distribute the following or assist therein:

1. cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard (whether accomplished using hardware, software, a combination thereof, or otherwise), influencing and/or facilitating gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;

I’m not arguing that veterans are cheaters, it’s just the points in here aren’t good at all lol

1. removed because I’m dumb lol sorry

2. VETERAN TWINKS do indeed have advantages such as legion gear, gf head neck artifact weapons etc, and dungeon gear with gems whilst being enchanted. Some of these things can theoretically be farmed by the “normal player”, but aren’t feasible at all. To get dungeon gear you must run several dungeons tens of times leveling you out of the bracket before getting all your gear. To get legion gear you must send the gear to your main character from another imaginary level 25 character all casual players just have, or try to look in the auction house to be fucked over because twink gear is a market only in twink servers. To get gems you must either magically find gems from old world tbc in retail that aren’t selling for 10k each, or literally level jewel fucking crafting and farm the gems and make the gems yourself whilst staying in the level bracket. Also, I’m really sure that the casual player also has tens of hundreds of consumables that cost marks of fucking honor. With this logic I could say that debuffing is justified because it’s possible for a casual player to just do some weird ass backwards trick and also be debuffed like me, it’s their fault for not taking advantage of this. Jesus lmao

3. Please stop conflating veteran and f2p twinks. A veteran twink isn’t just a unsubbed level 20 character, that’s called a f2p. A veteran twink is a twink created through subbing, getting op gear no leveler would spend the time getting, getting gems no one creates besides twinks, in literally a couple days or less then waiting a entire month and putting xp gain back on before the time runs out, waiting a day so the shit doesn’t get bugged out and u level accidentally, then smurfing on levelers and maybe the 3-5 twinks in the bg because the rest of them are wargaming.

also nice edit on that post throwing shade on me bruh real gamer tactics up in this bitch lov u <3

 

[accel]

methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard

Being able to play without a sub is there for two reasons: (a) so that people who don't own the game can try it out, and (b) so that players who owned the game but unsubbed can give it another short spin and then hopefully resub. These are the reasons.

Vets / f2p are using this for a completely different reason: (c) so that they get into the same bgs as levelers, because they have exp on, but they don't get exp because of the limitation of playing without a sub.

Was (c) expressly authorized by Blizzard? Did you ask them -- hey, by stopping or never starting a sub I can be exp-off and reap all the benefits of being that by spending all the time in the world I need to get best gear / enchants / everything else, and the best thing is that if I am exp-off via this specific method of stopping or never starting a sub, your system sees me as exp-on and lets me queue into bgs with people who don't do any tricks, and I can then dominate them hard and do this forever -- do you expressly authorize that? Did they answer -- yes, we authorize that? No, you didn't ask and they didn't answer. So stop pretending that happened.

Alternatively, if you reason that they "expressly authorize" the above by letting people without a sub = de-facto exp-off, queue into exp-on bgs - great, but then by the same measure they also "expressly authorize" the debuffers by letting people queue into exp-on bgs and then get a pittance of exp due to them being in a party with a funny alt at the time they accepted the queue.

This is all there is to it.

 

[Newaccount]

Being able to play without a sub is there for two reasons: (a) so that people who don't own the game can try it out, and (b) so that players who owned the game but unsubbed can give it another short spin and then hopefully resub. These are the reasons.

Vets / f2p are using this for a completely different reason: (c) so that they get into the same bgs as levelers, because they have exp on, but they don't get exp because of the limitation of playing without a sub.

Was (c) expressly authorized by Blizzard? Did you ask them -- hey, by stopping or never starting a sub I can be exp-off and reap all the benefits of being that by spending all the time in the world I need to get best gear / enchants / everything else, and the best thing is that if I am exp-off via this specific method of stopping or never starting a sub, your system sees me as exp-on and lets me queue into bgs with people who don't do any tricks, and I can then dominate them hard and do this forever -- do you expressly authorize that? Did they answer -- yes, we authorize that? No, you didn't ask and they didn't answer. So stop pretending that happened.

Alternatively, if you reason that they "expressly authorize" the above by letting people without a sub = de-facto exp-off, queue into exp-on bgs - great, but then by the same measure they also "expressly authorize" the debuffers by letting people queue into exp-on bgs and then get a pittance of exp due to them being in a party with a funny alt at the time they accepted the queue.

This is all there is to it.

ah I was bumfucked on this also lol

He is arguing that because blizzard allows VETERAN accounts to queue for a bg and there are no advantages to being a VETERAN twink compared to a leveler, VETERAN players aren’t exploiters. the conclusion is right but the reasons are very wrong. There is an obvious advantage to having all bis gear, gems, enchants and shit compared to a guy who has some quest gear and doesn’t even have equipped.
Arguing that the reasons of blizzard adding f2p and veterans differ from the reasons twinks exist therefore twinks aren’t authorized doesn’t refute the fact that blizzard added battlegrounds to f2p and veteran accounts.
I do agree that twinking isnt authorized because they added f2p and veteran though

much love <3 <3

 

[Emelia]

my 2¢

 

[Eleannor]

Being able to queue XPOn BGs with a 20 F2P is intended, as the system prioritizes their ability to play and gain levels so that they can subscribe. That Vets can do it is a consequence of said system enabling experience gains even when out of gametime.

But it is in no way a explot, because: (1) it doesn't require shady manipulation of other system in the game (you can just not level your character during your gametime and go Vet); (2) and generally speaking, Vets' powerlevels are somewhat acessible to other F2P or lvl 29 characters (unlike 29's with glitched experienced gains).

I think those as an Objective Gamedesign argument, and a Subjective Sportsmanship-based one.

 

[accel]

Being able to queue XPOn BGs with a 20 F2P is intended, as the system prioritizes their ability to play and gain levels so that they can subscribe. That Vets can do it is a consequence of said system enabling experience gains even when out of gametime.

But it is in no way a explot, because: (1) it doesn't require shady manipulation of other system in the game (you can just not level your character during your gametime and go Vet); (2) and generally speaking, Vets' powerlevels are somewhat acessible to other F2P or lvl 29 characters (unlike 29's with glitched experienced gains).

I think those as an Objective Gamedesign argument, and a Subjective Sportsmanship-based one.

For the last time.

Yes, being able to queue exp-on bgs on f2p is intended. Same for vet. Dominating exp-on bgs on f2p / vet, however, due to them reaping the benefits of being de-facto exp-off even though they are classified as exp-on, is not intended. This is merely a side effect. That this side effect pretty much defines level 20 bgs is a sign of the game being very old and having a lot of twists, and Blizzard being incapable of handling it, that's all.

As regards things being an exploit or not, the truth is that this does not matter much. What matters is that whatever you call the thing that vets / f2ps do, will apply to what the debuffers do. Conzil up above tried to go from the definition of the exploit from Blizzard and show that these things are separable. He failed to show that.

As a side note, when you are talking about the power levels you say that "Vets powerlevels are somewhat accessible to other F2P or lvl 29 characters" and you say that this is "unlike 29's with glitched experience gains". The latter is not the case, the power levels of "29's with glitched experience gains" are exactly those of 29's without glitched experience gains. They just get to enjoy these power levels for longer. It's similar to how the power levels of vets / f2ps are exactly the same as the potential power levels of levelers, but vets / f2ps benefit from obtaining these power levels once and sitting on them forever. But this is a side note.

 

[hom]

I reckon that vets are just an unfortunate side effect of Blizzard's plan to retain players, that ended up becoming a surprisingly large population, who typically have multiple accounts and end up paying double, if not more per month than traditional players.

They don't operate outside of the ToS imo, they sit in the grey area that Blizzard can't be arsed to address, and/or, doesn't want to potentially impact even more revenue from their quarterly reports by making any changes here.

Vets scummy af - yes

Debuffers on the other hand are using in game mechanics in an unintended way to achieve an advantage over other players in pvp. It's against ToS imo.

Debuffers are scummy af - yes

So I understand your original argument @Somfas - equally scummy.

Unfortunately, the worst thing to come from Xpoff being removed from BG's, is the sickly air of superiority certain groups of Vets surround themselves with. I used to twink at all different brackets, mainly 70, 85, 60 and 59. Once those avenues were blocked I tried to get into the Vet scene, only to be met with some of the most pathetic bitching and bickering I've seen in a wow community.

There are also amazing parts to the vet community too, but also some dark, damp, degenerate areas too.

As soon as they felt that blizzard validated them as suitable way to play the game, the whole essence of twinking was destroyed.

Vets are now just a contained group of players, relegated to the low levels that traditional players can zip past in a couple of dungeons if they want to. Minimum disturbance to the rest of the player base while keeping twinks hooked on an IV that drip feeds a fraction of the experience you used to enjoy, while your nostalgia supports the rest.

 

[Goesid]

Actually, the last part of this is kind of the argument. There is gear that vets have that is not available to f2p. The legion ilvl 28 gear is not attainable by a f2p. Prior to this expansion, there were lots of professions/enchants that weren’t available either. Now, SL has made that gap much smaller, but to say vets have no advantages over f2p accounts in the “trial” bracket is just wrong.

F2ps can still get ilvl 28 its just harder. Having to farm pigs/nazmir and epics. And their artifacts can only go to 33 instead 34. Other than that its just exploit gear but f2ps can have that too.

 

[mysticalmite]

You just can't dis vets at how much time they've invested into "twinking" there toons. If you missed out on enchants, gems, gear, and artifacts.. I'm sorry but tough shit. There's nothing exploited about grinding for BiS gear. You had the chance but you chose not to farm it and now that opportunity is closed, you have to accept it and move on to the next BiS gear. That's really how life is.

"If God intended everyone to be the same, he'd given us all braces on our legs." - Mrs. Gump

People should know by now if you are going to level up in BGs, nut up or shut up.
You can't tell me that my warrior is exploiting because everything he has on is unobtainable now.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/korgath/mysticalmite
I didn't build this warrior over night. It seriously took me 16 years and still grinding.
Now all I can do is flex in dungeons and q up for bgs with xp off just to say Hi and then /afk.
I'm not gonna lie, I wish that level 20s with an unsub acct were in the xpoff bracket just so we can get the old 60s and 70s twinks back playing again. Now that would be a way to solve the issue of lvl 20s vets playing with levelers.

 

[Chops]

The amount of mental gymnastics some of yall are engaging in to conflate "gearing to bis" and even twinking with "exploiting" is insane.

 

[BANKONE]

It’s the same people that wish for legion.

go play smite. It’s legit that

 

[Chops]

It’s the same people that wish for legion.

go play smite. It’s legit that

I meme it a lot but honestly... most of the people on this forum would be happier playing a moba

One of these days I'm gonna pitch a "MOBA but with a CTF map" to a game company, market it to twinks and make AT LEAST $20 bucks. Its gonna be huge.