Groenboompje
Banned
I am not starting this Kincaide nor am i frustrated or angry Mesikammen i am merly pointing out that some persons are doing the opposit of what they believe and write here on these forums aka calling them out to be lying.
Im out.
Farming v Containing
- Thread starter iminibiv
- Start date
Im out.
Mesikämmen
pwner
Nice find, you might want to keep that SS safe, bet if you wait a few years you can sell it for some mad profit
Want me to sign it for you aswell?On another note, do I seem like a person who would really give too much of a fuck about what you or other people think of me in a videogame?
Mesikämmen
pwner
Lil
SV huntard
Let's see if I can get my point in without getting bashed to the ground since this seemed to have gone in a more mature direction. I will try and make this as generalized as possible to avoid people from getting mad or thinking I am singling them out. There has been two things being argued that I've noticed: whats the difference in farming/containing, is farming/containing disrespectful/mean/what not
Difference/definition
Moral part
Tl;dr: Reading is good for you go ahead and read it! All this has really came down to is what do you consider farming or containing and/or do you think either are disrespectful. Imo the line to draw between farming and containing can become fuzzy at a certain point depending on how the person views the splitting point but there is never a time farming isn't disrespectful. Sure it's a game, sure you can do it so easily, sure there are other noobs/jerks who farm but do you really want to lower yourself to that and ruin other peoples gameplay who are just like you playing for probably the same reasons you are and make yourself look like an ass in the process?
Difference/definition
To see what the difference is lets look at a quick definition. Containment- the action of keeping something harmful under control or within limits. Pretty vague definition when it comes to WoW as that can be taken as literally standing on top of the gy since they are keeping them under control. Pretty sure most would agree that is farming though. Is containing sitting right at the edge of the gy or is that farming? Pretty sure most would say the latter. Where is the line made where it goes from farming to containing? For me atleast that line is the roads/huts. If you are in distance to attack them before they leave their gy it is farming.
If the opposing team can't mount up at an attempt at fast escape as not everyone has the ease of travel form, can't fight when THEY want to fight, can't start a counter or attempt at getting through your wall you are famring. Containing to me is just making a security wall, basically saying do not pass or we will kill you. That wall shouldn't be placed right infront of the "safe zone" with machine guns infront of it as soon as someone takes a step out, it should let the danger come to it then wipe it out when it tries to pass it. Kinda lame definition but atleast everyone should be able to understand.
There are ways at containing people without going to the lengths of killing them as soon as they rez. When you rez you are supposed to be able to restart and be able to get back into the match, the match isn't supposed to be there waiting for you to restart. Are there any console games that when you die or when you press "restart from last checkpoint" throw you right back in the heat of the battle and die right again so you repeatably restart from last checkpoint or just end up quitting the game? If there are please name me them as I would wonder how many people actually play it... I'm sure this won't be replied to in time but maybe the following 2 people can give a definition or their opinion on containing as I think they both grasp it better then anyone else I know. [MENTION=65]Pizza[/MENTION] [MENTION=696]Crit[/MENTION]
If the opposing team can't mount up at an attempt at fast escape as not everyone has the ease of travel form, can't fight when THEY want to fight, can't start a counter or attempt at getting through your wall you are famring. Containing to me is just making a security wall, basically saying do not pass or we will kill you. That wall shouldn't be placed right infront of the "safe zone" with machine guns infront of it as soon as someone takes a step out, it should let the danger come to it then wipe it out when it tries to pass it. Kinda lame definition but atleast everyone should be able to understand.
There are ways at containing people without going to the lengths of killing them as soon as they rez. When you rez you are supposed to be able to restart and be able to get back into the match, the match isn't supposed to be there waiting for you to restart. Are there any console games that when you die or when you press "restart from last checkpoint" throw you right back in the heat of the battle and die right again so you repeatably restart from last checkpoint or just end up quitting the game? If there are please name me them as I would wonder how many people actually play it... I'm sure this won't be replied to in time but maybe the following 2 people can give a definition or their opinion on containing as I think they both grasp it better then anyone else I know. [MENTION=65]Pizza[/MENTION] [MENTION=696]Crit[/MENTION]
Moral part
I'd that pretty well covers the definition of the two..? Now for when someone is doing one or the other would it be considered disrespectful? Well again let's look at containing first. It is generally a nice way of telling people to "Stay here, we got this cause you can't win" right? That's how I take it atleast.. If you follow the previously given definition of containing and are containing for the reason just given then I don't see how that is mean/disrespectful. Sometimes (most of the times in this bracket) one team is simply wayyy to strong compared to the other due to premades/OP classes/communication and what not so how would it be rude if you put into effect the "Stay here, we got this cause you can't win" strat to make sure you win without much fighting back and move on to better or more competitive bgs (we all know generally that doesn't happen and people just faceroll with the same OP classes/premades in the next bg but that is irrelevant to this point)? For me personally if you follow my definition of containment and you do it for the reason of quick faceroll bgs instead of long faceroll bgs then I will not think much of it.
Now for farming... First thing I want to say is a quick example while making sure not to name names. Person A, B, C, D, E, F, G are all at gy killing relentlessly in their premade. Person H and I are working as hard as they can to cap. Person J is dead at gy or off being dumb somewhere (let's admit there's normally one per bg lol). Is person A-G farming or containing? They are farming. Idc if H and I are 2 worgen Rdruids popping every racial in the book and every speed increaser to cap 3 flags in 4 minutes. Person A-G never made an attempt at helping cap while relentlessly killing over and over at the gy so just because H and I are objective based and won the bg does NOT mean A-G "contained". Just wanted to get that out of the way first as it annoys me how many farmers use that as an excuse..
I used it before and I like it enough to use it again...
Now for farming... First thing I want to say is a quick example while making sure not to name names. Person A, B, C, D, E, F, G are all at gy killing relentlessly in their premade. Person H and I are working as hard as they can to cap. Person J is dead at gy or off being dumb somewhere (let's admit there's normally one per bg lol). Is person A-G farming or containing? They are farming. Idc if H and I are 2 worgen Rdruids popping every racial in the book and every speed increaser to cap 3 flags in 4 minutes. Person A-G never made an attempt at helping cap while relentlessly killing over and over at the gy so just because H and I are objective based and won the bg does NOT mean A-G "contained". Just wanted to get that out of the way first as it annoys me how many farmers use that as an excuse..
I used it before and I like it enough to use it again...
That will sum up my point about if farming is disrespectful or if there is ever a reason to do it. Sure the example maybe alittle different but it is basically the same concept.. Kill immediately, rez, kill immediately, rez, kill immediately, ask why you keep killing me, cuz you keep rezzing. Deal with it, stay dead or afk. If you've noticied that last line is the reasoning for alot of people who support gy farming and they have used that exact line. When people use that line it just highlights that they think it is disrespectful but don't care simply cause they can.
Tl;dr: Reading is good for you go ahead and read it! All this has really came down to is what do you consider farming or containing and/or do you think either are disrespectful. Imo the line to draw between farming and containing can become fuzzy at a certain point depending on how the person views the splitting point but there is never a time farming isn't disrespectful. Sure it's a game, sure you can do it so easily, sure there are other noobs/jerks who farm but do you really want to lower yourself to that and ruin other peoples gameplay who are just like you playing for probably the same reasons you are and make yourself look like an ass in the process?
Dramatized
Legend
[MENTION=14218]Lil[/MENTION] I don't get why you make a whole new post w/o responding to the argument we had earlier in this thread? :/
Custard
Legend
Solo q'd against familiar faces of 5 SP's + 4 Hunters throughout all of last night. Naturally the 'containment' of our half afk/majority spanish team began quickly all game/every game. Legend has it we broke out to the hut at one point.
In all seriousness tho, if that's their idea of fun with a bunch of friends at the end of a day then who are we to argue, and if it's their intention to group up and play like that every other day then so be it. Just take it with a pinch of salt, laugh at them, and carry on learning Español.
In all seriousness tho, if that's their idea of fun with a bunch of friends at the end of a day then who are we to argue, and if it's their intention to group up and play like that every other day then so be it. Just take it with a pinch of salt, laugh at them, and carry on learning Español.
Lil
SV huntard
Sry I had to work and cleared my notifications when I got back since I figured it was more hate mail and I've found the best way is to just not see it lately
Because they can fight back anywhere else on the map? They can fight back while being contained, yes less then normal but still can. Don't think I'm trying to be a saint here and say don't kill anyone ever because it's disrespectful lol. The bg is centered around importance level killing but it isn't centered (or isn't supposed to be) around killing people at gy before they can fight back.
Sorry I assumed you knew Pizza alot better. Horde invasion is 24 guild who does premade to faceroll and who used to have alot of frequent 24s however their policy was to never pass the road and to always allow enemies to fight back if they chose. They would not run after someone to kill them and I feel from what I've seen from Pizza (now I have heard differently) he seems to follow the same approach.
You seemed to miss my point..? I agree this whole argument has been subjective but my point in that quote was that giving the opposing team atleast a chance is more fun the completely shutting down the whole other team. Idk how it's fun to 3 cap and have it seem like you're not even facing a team because they die as soon as they rez. Giving the other team a chance and allowing them to regroup doesn't mean you are letting them win, it simply means you are letting them try again at proving they deserve to win.
I can't tell you how many times I've sat through a 20 minute farm fest just to req and sit through it again. Playerbase or the future of the bracket shouldn't determine how you act.. Farming in a thriving bracket is just as bad as farming in a dead bracket. Idk the past at all but don't you think if EU 19s farmed alittle less when it was up and running that it may have lasted longer? You ever think by your reasoning that you are just turning this bracket into what you left by doing the samething that (more then likely... again idk at all what killed it) killed the EU 19s?
Mesikämmen
pwner
Everyone has their own view of what containing and farming is. Making a thread like this will hardly change any players' views on the issue. I know my guild and I won't be changing our views no matter what anyone says, outside of Blizzard.
My guild and I believe that containing is the act of holding the opposing team in a choke-hold at their GY so our team can run flags and win the game as quickly, easily, and most efficiently as possible.
We believe farming is also the act of holding the opposing team in a choke-hold at their GY, but without the intention of winning the game as quickly as possible, and instead with the intention of griefing or farming honor.
Battlegrounds are a form of PvP. There's no guidelines as to what you're required to do in them. There's certain objectives that players are encouraged to complete in order to win, but you're allowed to take whatever actions you choose to complete these objectives, as long as they don't break the ToS. In fact, you don't have to play to win if you don't want to. That's what makes PvP different than PvE: the ability to fight and kill other players, and you're allowed to do so however you please with or without the objectives of the battleground in mind.
My guild and I use the containment strategy in WSG and will continue to do so as long as it's the quickest, easiest, and most efficient way to win. The highest rated and most successful RBG teams use the same containment strategy in WSG because it's the best way to play WSG, period.
You won't catch us farming though. We're not out to grief or farm honor while we're queuing. We're out to dominate WSG by landing as many kills, within the time it takes to cap 3 flags as fast as possible. It's how we like to play WSG and it's how we will continue to play it unless the battleground is changed to where there's a better way to play it.
I won't be checking this thread again. I don't generally read or post in the F2P forum, but Lil mentioned me so I thought I would post my 2c since my guild is known for 'containing' in both the 19 and 20-24 bracket. Feel free to reply to my post to continue discussion, but don't expect a reply from me.
My guild and I believe that containing is the act of holding the opposing team in a choke-hold at their GY so our team can run flags and win the game as quickly, easily, and most efficiently as possible.
We believe farming is also the act of holding the opposing team in a choke-hold at their GY, but without the intention of winning the game as quickly as possible, and instead with the intention of griefing or farming honor.
Battlegrounds are a form of PvP. There's no guidelines as to what you're required to do in them. There's certain objectives that players are encouraged to complete in order to win, but you're allowed to take whatever actions you choose to complete these objectives, as long as they don't break the ToS. In fact, you don't have to play to win if you don't want to. That's what makes PvP different than PvE: the ability to fight and kill other players, and you're allowed to do so however you please with or without the objectives of the battleground in mind.
My guild and I use the containment strategy in WSG and will continue to do so as long as it's the quickest, easiest, and most efficient way to win. The highest rated and most successful RBG teams use the same containment strategy in WSG because it's the best way to play WSG, period.
You won't catch us farming though. We're not out to grief or farm honor while we're queuing. We're out to dominate WSG by landing as many kills, within the time it takes to cap 3 flags as fast as possible. It's how we like to play WSG and it's how we will continue to play it unless the battleground is changed to where there's a better way to play it.
I won't be checking this thread again. I don't generally read or post in the F2P forum, but Lil mentioned me so I thought I would post my 2c since my guild is known for 'containing' in both the 19 and 20-24 bracket. Feel free to reply to my post to continue discussion, but don't expect a reply from me.
Rollop
Legend
Farming is farming when you have the flag or can grab the flag and choose not to cap it. Why blizzard doesn't just raise the GY out of range from spells and high enough so you cant get back up there unless you die is beyond me. If blizzard really wanted to discourage farming they would. But they wont. They made it easier instead.
With all that said. It doesnt bother me personally because if im on the receiving end, ill just afk out. If my team is doing the farming ill make sure to cap and berate them for being bads as i do.
With all that said. It doesnt bother me personally because if im on the receiving end, ill just afk out. If my team is doing the farming ill make sure to cap and berate them for being bads as i do.
w1LLz_lump
Legend
Wow. Obviously no one here twinked back in the day. Bg's didn't have a time limit. People "farmed" for hours on end.
20min of farming is nothing.
Harden the fuck up.
If you're getting farmed don't res, make a cup of tea with two teaspoons of cement.
So sick of these metro twinks these days.
20min of farming is nothing.
Harden the fuck up.
If you're getting farmed don't res, make a cup of tea with two teaspoons of cement.
So sick of these metro twinks these days.
Groenboompje
Banned
Untill we griefed these players and made them rage quit the bracket. Our realm/battlegroup had some sort of sportmanship and etiquette due to the connection we had with twink guilds. It is all about the community and its leaders attitude.
Rollop
Legend
Old school twinking was poop. Ganking players 8 levels lower than you are in white gear sounds like a waste of time. At least this bracket is packed with geared players.
Also, if you're getting GY camped for 7-8 minutes as they cap all 3 flags, stop crying. They obviously could have farmed you for 20 minutes and chose not to.
Dramatized
Legend
Well, the way Blizzard have made the WSG-map (and especially the graveyard) they are actively promoting GY-camping. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
I queued with Pizza once, and that was in the 19s bracket. I haven't even got a level 24.
Well, instead of giving the opposing team a chance, I'd rather get the game overwith fast - to queue into a better team. It's like playing tennis with your left arm, only because your opponent is worse than you at the sport.
And as I said, I'm strongly against GY-farming when the playerbase might get extinct. I have never ever farmed in the 19s EU bracket.
The difference between EU 19s and f2p is that f2p is about maybe 10 times bigger, so you don't ever face the same team again. F2p will never get threatened by activity loss because of GY-farming.
Metro
Legend
w1LLz_lump
Legend
Old twinking was not poop. People who knew how to win bg's and pvp with skill, yes the bc enchants helped punish the non-twinks but personally I always went for the twinks first
I however agree with the last part of your quote.
Gulbon
Legend
Farming = Farming for 20 minutes.
Containing (Glorified farming, a plague in the twink community) = Farming for 10 minutes and 3 capping.
What's the similarities? You are taking the competition out of a competitive setting and ruining the game for another person. I really hope things aren't as bad as I'm hearing, considering I'm on vacation and there's a lot of people complaining about glorified farmers.
GY Farming, GY Containing, so what if one's more justifiable? They BOTH damage the bracket.
Containing (Glorified farming, a plague in the twink community) = Farming for 10 minutes and 3 capping.
What's the similarities? You are taking the competition out of a competitive setting and ruining the game for another person. I really hope things aren't as bad as I'm hearing, considering I'm on vacation and there's a lot of people complaining about glorified farmers.
GY Farming, GY Containing, so what if one's more justifiable? They BOTH damage the bracket.