Don't feel bad about being a 24.
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- Start date
Lil
SV huntard
^ this quote basically answered that
You know how p2ps like trying to say they are entitled to faceroll (see precious posts) just because they pay? Well F2Ps can do the SAME thing and say we are entitled to a fun good bracket because this bracket is wow's most active bracket because of us. If all the trials left there would be no bracket. If all the p2ps left there would be alot of happy f2ps playing this bracket.
Sometimes I honestly wish all the f2ps would just stop queuing all at once for a couple days to show we control this brackets activity but sadly people who roll p2p just to gy farm or grief said trials don't realize it. One day I just see this bracket hitting the tipping point.. Not sure when or what patch but it will be soon
Bugs Bunny
Legend
Everyone is entitled to the bracket, whether it be 24 or F2P. No one can claim the bracket for themselves, it doesn't matter who makes up a majority of the population, because in the end each player chooses the situation they are in whether they want to F2P or P2P.
If you want to play for free, great! But that decision comes with the knowledge that your character might not be as powerful as someone who pays for the game. Rather than calling out the people who pay for the game, why not just accept that you are limiting yourself and understand that you choose the situation that you play in?
If you want to play for free, great! But that decision comes with the knowledge that your character might not be as powerful as someone who pays for the game. Rather than calling out the people who pay for the game, why not just accept that you are limiting yourself and understand that you choose the situation that you play in?
SallyG
Legend
Well there are a couple ways to look at that:
A) You have a fun, good bracket. Fast pops. Reasonable scaling. Possibility for class diversity (in that many specs are viable). Occasional competition.
B) What makes you think you are entitled to anything in a game that is subscription based, while not paying said subscription?
B) What makes you think you are entitled to anything in a game that is subscription based, while not paying said subscription?
Etc, etc.
If F2Ps all stopped queueing, then we would see the 19 bracket level of activity. There are enough P2Ps supporting this bracket now to get pops. Based on my 19s experience, the queues would be instant to 20 mins at primetime. Whether or not the activity would be sustainable is up in the air still. The pace of P2P games in this bracket is far more enjoyable than any F2P game (imo). So wargames/premades still could offer a real draw.
The only people who would be really hurt would be the ones who play to roll scrubs. And to be perfectly honest, they could just go back to the 10-14 leveling bracket. So I don't see that phasing them.
Faerondil
Legend
This statement invalidated everything else you had to say.
First when you say 'our' bracket, who are you referring to? f2ps or cyclops hunters? Sorry, couldn't resist
. To me when you are playing a subscription game for free, you really cannot call any portion of it yours.Second, in Cata and again now, few things other than a p2p hunter were/are more faceroll than an alliance f2p hunter. Glass houses and all that.
I respect you and almost always like your posts. However that statement was nonsense.
Kiri
Guest
It's called empathy and is evolved usually after the age of 21, so no1 expects you to feel bad.. yet..
Have your fun while you can!
madhombre
Legend
^this
if you have to be 24 in this bracket pvp isnt your strength, go slay some dragons
verh
Legend
It's called empathy and is evolved usually after the age of 21, so no1 expects you to feel bad.. yet..
Have your fun while you can!
Last edited by a moderator:
Honey Badger
OG
" Honeybadger is here to kick ass and chew bubble gum, and Honeybadger's all out of bubble gum "
/Ticklefest
/Ticklefest
yasueh
OG
For you maybe. For me it lasted for at most a month before I stopped farming levellers like a complete scrub, and started going after other, better geared twinks.
Wrong. It bit the dust thanks to lack of merged battlegroups and a requirement for full teams. I suggest you try reading outside this section of the forums, because you might then notice that there is activity in other, XP-locked brackets. In fact the forum sections for both 20-24 and 10-14 have less activity than 70s, 19s and f2ps, so it would seem that twinking is doing just fine without steamrollers.
And we have the usual excuse favored by the truly apathetic.
It's a video game? So you're judging video games as a form of creative media to be inferior to other forms of art, like literature, theatre, music or film? As a form of participatory entertainment to be inferior to conventional sports, despite play at high levels requiring just as much dedication? The Olympics, Superbowl, World Series, World Cup, etc. are just games. No-one fails to take those seriously, and none of them have half as many players as WoW. Sure they might mostly be casuals, but how many of the casuals having a kick about in the park are doing it to 'own noobs', and otherwise ignore the basic principles of good sportsmanship, claiming 'It's just a game'?
I bet the same excuses were used in the past regarding all the alternatives to video gaming that I've listed above, when they were relatively new, and were competing with alternatives. Excuses used by the same kind of short-sighted people, trying to devalue other people's experiences.
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Well that right there speaks volumes about the kind of person you are...
As does claiming that anyone who doesn't enjoy the same things as you must be a liar. I guess many things in your life must be so challenging that you've developed a strong aversion to being properly challenged by anything else you may choose to do.
If you think I'm lying about my twinking to get fair games against other twinks, then maybe you'd care to explain my reasons for campaigning for XP lock and separate twink only BGs, for the implementation of gear and level scaling, and for the restriction of enchants to appropriate levels? And while you're at it you might like to explain why anyone would do this.
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Just because the greater part of the imbalance has been addressed, does not mean to say that the remainder can be simply ignored. Even 10% on a stat makes a difference, not to mention the availability of extra abilities.
So you're saying that the respect of WoW players isn't worth anything? Nice way to view several million people. I'd say that the people who value respect the least are those least deserving of it.
And as for my issues? I may seek out the respect of others, but at least I'm doing something beneficial to other people in the process, instead of just thinking about myself. Where would humanity be without people like me? Still in the stone age. Invention and social progress relies on self sacrifice and doing things for little other than respect, not self serving for short term material profit.
Yeah, pick rogue for your example, the one class whose ability to shine is exceedingly situational. Same kind of bias from all the people thinking f2p 20s are fine, because the hunters still pose a challenge.
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Maybe because you choose to spend your $15 in order to s*** on other people.
Plenty of F2Ps spend $15 too, except they're doing it to help out a whole community, many of them just to help out that community, because they put more time into that than playing at endgame, or outside of f2p.
And as for the ones who don't have the $15? We don't feel the need to pity them, because we're helping them.
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Because before the time limit was taken off the trial, the bracket did not even exist. Paying for your home does not make you responsible for it's existence, that would be down to the builders, Blizzard in this case made a new home for 20s, and then 24s moved in.
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Yep. Ignorant.
Internet access isn't some luxury, it's required to function in normal life in developed countries, to the extent that many of them take its costs into account when working out how much welfare people needs to live on [1].
And given the current economic state of the 'developed' countries, and the number of people in them at or below the poverty line, $15 a month is the difference between being well fed and being malnourished. Meanwhile having internet is the difference between being able to find a job or not.
Why whould someone in that position be spending their time playing video games? Because believe it or not, it's an exceedingly low cost form of entertainment, and entertainment is another neccessity. Without access to it people and societies soon develop other problems.
And who the hell are you to decide what is and isn't a priviledge?
Blizzard made the game free up to level 20, they gave us the right to play it for free. Go read your Terms of Service and End User License Agreement. Blizzard are telling you to STFU, because right there it says paying does not give you any say in how this game is run.
F2P players have every right to play this game, because without them populating low level areas, this game would be dying a whole lot faster than it already is, as no new players would want to play a game where they start up, then can't see anyone playing.
Why does Blizzard tolerate F2P? Because it is of value to them. We are of value to them, because we perform a service that helps attract new players, which is a lot more than can be said for the kind of twinks who play the lower brackets only to steamroll newer players, making their experience worse. A type of player whose advantages Blizzard has made continued efforts to negate.
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If it isn't an advantage any more, then why are you defending it, instead of saving yourself $15 a month and rolling f2p? Is it because you're too proud that you can afford $15/mo to stop doing it?
You have the option not to pay, as well as the option not to play at 24, so why are you still doing those things? Come play a F2P and then we'll talk about advantage. Until you do that you have no idea what kind of advantage you have.
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So you're suggesting that everyone should just roll the most OP class? Real classy
Again, come play F2P before you start insulting everyone who does it. You only come off as completely ignorant.
Heirlooms were never a deal breaker, because they never provided any real advantage once you got past level 15. The biggest advantage has always come from enchants, and they're still here, and for P2Ps only.
Just so long as you don't have to queue on one.
Try to at least write something worthy of a tl;dr before using one.
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Yeah, you go on massaging your ego about that $15. You'd be amazed the kind of junk that will run WoW (and it's certainly doesn't hold back how well someone can play), a $100 PC or a lucky find in a dumpster will do the job. As for the connection? In a lot of places it's included in the cheapest package you can find for your phone and TV.
You may not have much of an advantage any more playing a 24. We'll call it being carried by better players.
And you should try to actually play a F2P, and see what the real differences are, instead of doing similar.
Except that's not what every twink does, it's only what twinks like you do.
Explaing to me what part of defending your playstyle comes under not caring what people think? You may go to sleep content, but chances are you'll wake up and go on posting the same stuff.
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And the larger part of those P2Ps will go back to 10-14 when they can no longer faceroll, leaving the extreme few who might actually play a fair game high and dry. People don't play this bracket on a P2P for fair games, it's either for the queues, the facerolling, or a proper challenge if they're going by f2p rules. Those people who do want fair games are already doing so at 19, 70, or any one of the other brackets that a P2P account already has access to.
Just look at the activity on these forums for the 15-19 bracket, and compare that to forum activity for 20-24 (which includes several f2ps). What might 20-24 queue times be with f2ps taken out of the 20-24 bracket, considering the actvity for 15-19 and their queues?
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Except this isn't a subscription game. Not any more. It's both subscription and[/i] F2P. See above regarding ToS/EULA. Paying dosn't make it yours either.
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Well some are unlikely to ever develop empathy, being borderline for one of these:
and;
as well as;
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There you go again passing off your own limited view of what twinking is as the only kind of twinking. Yes, some people do it only to have as big an advantage as possible over other players.
However, there are plenty of others who do it to minimise any disadvantage they might have, so that they aren't the ones being facerolled.
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No need to complain that you're dumb when you make it so obvious. It never occured to you before writing that that if you want competition you could roll a F2P? Or maybe that's just too much competition for you.
Yada, yada, ToS, EULA, get it in your heads that having money =/= rights.
Wake up, try actually thinking about the world you live in, and realise that half the crap going down in the world today is because people with money have far more power than the vast majority, and because so many dumb people in that majority are lusting after wealth too, that they keep on defending the 'right' of the wealthy to s*** on everyone else.
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tl;dr
When you act disrespectfully to others, you are showing them what you consider to be appropriate behaviour, so you have no right at all to complain when they disrespect you in return.
Empathy is seeing that what you do to another person is what justifies how they act in return.
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tl;dr for the tl;dr
Don't be a dick.
Hangfire
Legend
Yasueh;696742 So you're judging video games as a form of creative media to be inferior to other forms of art said:
My friend I've never flamed anyone on this forum, but your comparison...really...seriously? The Olympics..... I'd spend way more time seeking some sort of viable friendship outside of this game and reinsert yourself into reality somehow. This is a game. Taking it way to seriously and and obviously investing this much emotion into flaming and walling text is well ...just pretty sad. Beyond that we (the 24 community PAY for this game), Guess what that means... I think you can! If it hurts that badly and keeps you up late at night...well my friend...look else where for fulfillment. Good Day to you...and best regards...your friendly neighborhood nontalent steamrolling 24...Cheers Mate
Gulbon
Legend
For you maybe. For me it lasted for at most a month before I stopped farming levellers like a complete scrub, and started going after other, better geared twinks.
Wrong. It bit the dust thanks to lack of merged battlegroups and a requirement for full teams. I suggest you try reading outside this section of the forums, because you might then notice that there is activity in other, XP-locked brackets. In fact the forum sections for both 20-24 and 10-14 have less activity than 70s, 19s and f2ps, so it would seem that twinking is doing just fine without steamrollers.
And we have the usual excuse favored by the truly apathetic.
It's a video game? So you're judging video games as a form of creative media to be inferior to other forms of art, like literature, theatre, music or film? As a form of participatory entertainment to be inferior to conventional sports, despite play at high levels requiring just as much dedication? The Olympics, Superbowl, World Series, World Cup, etc. are just games. No-one fails to take those seriously, and none of them have half as many players as WoW. Sure they might mostly be casuals, but how many of the casuals having a kick about in the park are doing it to 'own noobs', and otherwise ignore the basic principles of good sportsmanship, claiming 'It's just a game'?
I bet the same excuses were used in the past regarding all the alternatives to video gaming that I've listed above, when they were relatively new, and were competing with alternatives. Excuses used by the same kind of short-sighted people, trying to devalue other people's experiences.
-------------
Well that right there speaks volumes about the kind of person you are...
As does claiming that anyone who doesn't enjoy the same things as you must be a liar. I guess many things in your life must be so challenging that you've developed a strong aversion to being properly challenged by anything else you may choose to do.
If you think I'm lying about my twinking to get fair games against other twinks, then maybe you'd care to explain my reasons for campaigning for XP lock and separate twink only BGs, for the implementation of gear and level scaling, and for the restriction of enchants to appropriate levels? And while you're at it you might like to explain why anyone would do this.
-------------
Just because the greater part of the imbalance has been addressed, does not mean to say that the remainder can be simply ignored. Even 10% on a stat makes a difference, not to mention the availability of extra abilities.
So you're saying that the respect of WoW players isn't worth anything? Nice way to view several million people. I'd say that the people who value respect the least are those least deserving of it.
And as for my issues? I may seek out the respect of others, but at least I'm doing something beneficial to other people in the process, instead of just thinking about myself. Where would humanity be without people like me? Still in the stone age. Invention and social progress relies on self sacrifice and doing things for little other than respect, not self serving for short term material profit.
Yeah, pick rogue for your example, the one class whose ability to shine is exceedingly situational. Same kind of bias from all the people thinking f2p 20s are fine, because the hunters still pose a challenge.
-------------
Maybe because you choose to spend your $15 in order to s*** on other people.
Plenty of F2Ps spend $15 too, except they're doing it to help out a whole community, many of them just to help out that community, because they put more time into that than playing at endgame, or outside of f2p.
And as for the ones who don't have the $15? We don't feel the need to pity them, because we're helping them.
-------------
Because before the time limit was taken off the trial, the bracket did not even exist. Paying for your home does not make you responsible for it's existence, that would be down to the builders, Blizzard in this case made a new home for 20s, and then 24s moved in.
-------------
Yep. Ignorant.
Internet access isn't some luxury, it's required to function in normal life in developed countries, to the extent that many of them take its costs into account when working out how much welfare people needs to live on [1].
And given the current economic state of the 'developed' countries, and the number of people in them at or below the poverty line, $15 a month is the difference between being well fed and being malnourished. Meanwhile having internet is the difference between being able to find a job or not.
Why whould someone in that position be spending their time playing video games? Because believe it or not, it's an exceedingly low cost form of entertainment, and entertainment is another neccessity. Without access to it people and societies soon develop other problems.
And who the hell are you to decide what is and isn't a priviledge?
Blizzard made the game free up to level 20, they gave us the right to play it for free. Go read your Terms of Service and End User License Agreement. Blizzard are telling you to STFU, because right there it says paying does not give you any say in how this game is run.
F2P players have every right to play this game, because without them populating low level areas, this game would be dying a whole lot faster than it already is, as no new players would want to play a game where they start up, then can't see anyone playing.
Why does Blizzard tolerate F2P? Because it is of value to them. We are of value to them, because we perform a service that helps attract new players, which is a lot more than can be said for the kind of twinks who play the lower brackets only to steamroll newer players, making their experience worse. A type of player whose advantages Blizzard has made continued efforts to negate.
-------------
If it isn't an advantage any more, then why are you defending it, instead of saving yourself $15 a month and rolling f2p? Is it because you're too proud that you can afford $15/mo to stop doing it?
You have the option not to pay, as well as the option not to play at 24, so why are you still doing those things? Come play a F2P and then we'll talk about advantage. Until you do that you have no idea what kind of advantage you have.
-------------
So you're suggesting that everyone should just roll the most OP class? Real classy
Again, come play F2P before you start insulting everyone who does it. You only come off as completely ignorant.
Heirlooms were never a deal breaker, because they never provided any real advantage once you got past level 15. The biggest advantage has always come from enchants, and they're still here, and for P2Ps only.
Just so long as you don't have to queue on one.
Try to at least write something worthy of a tl;dr before using one.
-------------
Yeah, you go on massaging your ego about that $15. You'd be amazed the kind of junk that will run WoW (and it's certainly doesn't hold back how well someone can play), a $100 PC or a lucky find in a dumpster will do the job. As for the connection? In a lot of places it's included in the cheapest package you can find for your phone and TV.
You may not have much of an advantage any more playing a 24. We'll call it being carried by better players.
And you should try to actually play a F2P, and see what the real differences are, instead of doing similar.
Except that's not what every twink does, it's only what twinks like you do.
Explaing to me what part of defending your playstyle comes under not caring what people think? You may go to sleep content, but chances are you'll wake up and go on posting the same stuff.
-------------
And the larger part of those P2Ps will go back to 10-14 when they can no longer faceroll, leaving the extreme few who might actually play a fair game high and dry. People don't play this bracket on a P2P for fair games, it's either for the queues, the facerolling, or a proper challenge if they're going by f2p rules. Those people who do want fair games are already doing so at 19, 70, or any one of the other brackets that a P2P account already has access to.
Just look at the activity on these forums for the 15-19 bracket, and compare that to forum activity for 20-24 (which includes several f2ps). What might 20-24 queue times be with f2ps taken out of the 20-24 bracket, considering the actvity for 15-19 and their queues?
-------------
Except this isn't a subscription game. Not any more. It's both subscription and[/i] F2P. See above regarding ToS/EULA. Paying dosn't make it yours either.
-------------
Well some are unlikely to ever develop empathy, being borderline for one of these:
and;
as well as;
-------------
There you go again passing off your own limited view of what twinking is as the only kind of twinking. Yes, some people do it only to have as big an advantage as possible over other players.
However, there are plenty of others who do it to minimise any disadvantage they might have, so that they aren't the ones being facerolled.
-------------
No need to complain that you're dumb when you make it so obvious. It never occured to you before writing that that if you want competition you could roll a F2P? Or maybe that's just too much competition for you.
Yada, yada, ToS, EULA, get it in your heads that having money =/= rights.
Wake up, try actually thinking about the world you live in, and realise that half the crap going down in the world today is because people with money have far more power than the vast majority, and because so many dumb people in that majority are lusting after wealth too, that they keep on defending the 'right' of the wealthy to s*** on everyone else.
-------------
-------------
tl;dr
When you act disrespectfully to others, you are showing them what you consider to be appropriate behaviour, so you have no right at all to complain when they disrespect you in return.
Empathy is seeing that what you do to another person is what justifies how they act in return.
-------------
tl;dr for the tl;dr
Don't be a dick.
As a owner of a 24 and a F2P twink, who plays mostly F2P, I fully agree with everything stated here.
I <3 you, Yasueh bb.