EU+US Best 20 PvE & PvP tanking class?

Hashbrowns said:
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/aerie-peak/largeprint
This used to be BiS for gear, think it still is. If there's a plate belt with +dodge now that would be best. I think the bracers are best, I have the lvl 20 green ones too, they might have more armor. High crit chance at flash heal never hurt though.
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Thanks for the link. The bg crate blues would be superior for bracers, ring and boots though. The http://www.wowhead.com/spell=152261/holy-shield talent also looks quite useful, especially in bg situations.
 
icehawk said:
Never thought of Blood Draining, but I don't think I have access to it with my chanter :(


Tanks can still be useful in PvP. I can't speak for the other specs, hence why I've been asking but on the Prot Warrior, the number of times I've been able to turn the tide of a battle because of a well placed http://www.wowhead.com/spell=107570/storm-bolt on the enemy healer, or on some melee ripping into our healer is countless. Plus the double Charge helps keep others at bay. Tanks won't top any dps charts, nor HK's but as a team player they are underrated. I feel they play more of a support role. Also the dps on my Prot isn't that far off my BM Huntard, but on the BM I'm closer to the top of the charts in dps because I get more uptime on my targets, but straight up dps, it's not that big a difference :-
BM Huntard ave iPvP dps 260 - 280
Prot Warrior ave iPvP dps 220 - 240

With regards to the other comments, so far Prot Pali seems to be standing out. If I can't get the PvE solo'ing side sorted on my Warrior with chants, I may find myself leaning towards a Prot Pali. We'll see :)
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Didn't say tanks were useless just not as good as other specs. Should be common knowledge by now that arms is more beneficial to a team than prot. Arms puts out insane damage, has a gap closer, still reduces healing done to target, and wears plate. It is more than good enough to "support" any given situation. I guess prot could be useful for holding flag when waiting for x number of stacks to take out efc due to the higher armor but imo i would still prefer to be arms in that situation because i am able to put out so much damage and either spec will suffer without supporting heals. Just imagine two teams with mirror comps except one team has 2 prots and other team has 2 arms. Suppose all players are about even in skill, who will come out on top? The double arms will be taking out targets while double prot watches and then dies too...

Keep in mind you are talking to someone who regularly carries games on arms in this bracket
 
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Hashbrowns said:
Blocking HoJ or Fear would be solid. But for the most part tanks do pretty poorly in BGs. But they can be fun to play.
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Using 'Blessed Hammer' replaces the 'Hammer of the Righteous', wich then gives 3 charges of AoE dmg.
Pretty funny, cuz then i can use the 'Sharpened tuskarr spear' for swag mog cuz i don't need any One-Handed Melee wep for any of my spells.

And ye, insane AoE for deffending the FC, but i don't see any rogues these days ;_;
 
icehawk said:
BM Huntard ave iPvP dps 260 - 280
Prot Warrior ave iPvP dps 220 - 240
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Lol - just when I reported these low numbers, I ran some Prot Warrior bg's last night and averaged 300 - 340 dps. Unfortunately didn't win any as we needed @Voc in there! :p but still was able to put in a good show! Didn't finish lower than top 4 in damage.
One thing I didn't see...... maybe I'm just really unlucky but I never got any http://www.wowhead.com/spell=46953/sword-and-board proc's. I'm fairly certain I used to get it some time back but last night in several bg's and also I did a heap of Stockade trash runs and didn't get one CD refresh on http://www.wowhead.com/spell=23922/shield-slam. Now my Crit's 24% so I should have got one theoretically every 8 http://www.wowhead.com/spell=20243/devastate's. Very strange, not sure if anyone else has noticed it or not but I don't think we have http://www.wowhead.com/spell=46953/sword-and-board anymore :mad:
 
Also, if anyone is interested, here is what I found doing Prot Warrior (lvl 20) runs of the Stockades (clearing trash mobs only) :-
  1. Holy Strength heal from Crusader averages 113. Crits almost 50% of the time, either that or I was lucky
  2. Mending heal averages 119. Crit seems to be close to actual Crit. Procs quite frequently
  3. Lifeward heal averages 95. Crit also seems to be actual Crit. Procs almost exactly the same frequency as Mending
  4. Colossus procs an absorb for 93, probably slightly more frequently than Mending & Lifeward though I wasn't sure how to track it
Roughly speaking Mending and Lifeward proc about 2.5 times as frequently as the Crusader proc.

But sadly none of these were sufficient for me to be able to down http://www.wowhead.com/npc=46254/hogger! I mean I didn't fully buff up nor use a Drum but tried to take him down with different chants and simply couldn't. I can do him easy peasy on the Mistweaver, but just can't do it on the Prot Warrior :(
 
Ok I did a few dungeons with Guardian.

With the +speed and dots it's not bad. You can heal to full so fast with Regrowth. You have 0 defensive CDs though and I have a measly 9% dodge (and 0 parry and block). I had 0 trouble pulling all mobs from RFC though, they hardly did any damage. The boss takes a while to die but again no problem. 40.68% armor, which I'm pretty sure is less then plate. 5149 health.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/haomarush/behr
Used to be damn near BiS if not. Did calculations on the +10 armor from set vs higher stam gear and this was better. Don't know anymore with the BG crates though. EF is the best wep chant you can get I think. I have another wep with Mark of Blackrock. Brought my vers from 15% to 22% but it never procs.
 
Hashbrowns said:
Ok I did a few dungeons with Guardian.

With the +speed and dots it's not bad. You can heal to full so fast with Regrowth. You have 0 defensive CDs though and I have a measly 9% dodge (and 0 parry and block). I had 0 trouble pulling all mobs from RFC though, they hardly did any damage. The boss takes a while to die but again no problem. 40.68% armor, which I'm pretty sure is less then plate. 5149 health.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/haomarush/behr
Used to be damn near BiS if not. Did calculations on the +10 armor from set vs higher stam gear and this was better. Don't know anymore with the BG crates though. EF is the best wep chant you can get I think. I have another wep with Mark of Blackrock. Brought my vers from 15% to 22% but it never procs.
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Cheers for reporting back. I see your Druid is Stam stacked. I'm guessing it comes at a slight cost losing some Ag. Out of interest, do you know what sort of dps u were doing? I'd be interested to see how that compares with my Prot Warrior. Though u can do RFC while I can easily do SS so maybe it won't be an accurate comparison. Lol may need a neutral dungeon like BFD or SFK to be the base checking dungeon!

I'm still playing around with my Prot Warrior and still leaning on a Str stacked setup over a Stam stack. I'm not sure whether it's better to hit harder and down a target faster or hit softer but stay up longer! I guess when Sader pops it doesn't really matter - just the in between hits.

That's also a lot of health at 20! Dang it! I thought I was doing well at 4K!:D
 
Crystalpall said:
So, I go prot pally, @icehawk goes prot warrior and @Hashbrowns goes guardian druid and we get a BFD speedrun competition!

Yes?

edit: if you're good enough to solo the first boss *wink* *wink*
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I'm down for that.

@icehawk I guess most of my chants are stamina. Agility gives me dodge and strength gives you parry but the amounts are pretty low. I wouldn't go pure stamina in gear, like blood ring over a stamina strength ring I wouldn't do. But chants, unless it has both stamina is best and let EF carry I would say. I looked at warrior, it looks really rough. You have one defensive that gives you 100% chance at 30% damage reduction. I had 9% parry, which was decent. Prot pally looks very strong. Block reduces damage by 40% plus http://www.wowhead.com/spell=53600/shield-of-the-righteous is good and increased a ton while in consecration. Everyone says the talent that reduces melee damage is great over holy shield, so might be worth a look too.

You can figure out your total effective health with this I think:
Health/(1-(parry/100)-(dodge/100)-(whatever damage reduction/100))
Its how I figure out if .2% parry is better then 2 stamina, etc
 
@Hashbrowns @icehawk

First attempt, and second time ever since the dungeon revamp, and quit first run at executioner because he kept resetting like a meter after his original spawn place, annoying af



As this was generally a test run I can probably shove off like a minute or two at places like second-to-last boss (healing elementals were a surprise factor, same with undead). I was pulled through the wall by one of the tentacles during my first test run but couldn't replicate it in the next one. Also, found out I can shut down tentacles with HoJ, which was perfect.


Now it's your turn people, and the competition isn't restricted to just us, everyone's free to join of course, just for fun. Would be cool to have a bm monk joining.
 
So @Crystalpall I thought if we could all do this is would be a good test:

Pull all mobs up to the water, turn around and tank/kill them. Record %health left after, DPS, etc and post.

That should give us a good idea how tanky we all are. Even playing field, like 8 mobs. Should be a good test.

Then I'll run the thing and post my thoughts.
 
Crystalpall said:
@Hashbrowns @icehawk

First attempt, and second time ever since the dungeon revamp, and quit first run at executioner because he kept resetting like a meter after his original spawn place, annoying af



As this was generally a test run I can probably shove off like a minute or two at places like second-to-last boss (healing elementals were a surprise factor, same with undead). I was pulled through the wall by one of the tentacles during my first test run but couldn't replicate it in the next one. Also, found out I can shut down tentacles with HoJ, which was perfect.


Now it's your turn people, and the competition isn't restricted to just us, everyone's free to join of course, just for fun. Would be cool to have a bm monk joining.
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Nice work @Crystalpall - damn that was a quick run! Talk about throwing down the gauntlet! ;) Ok, I'm going to need some time on this. I've never really recorded any WOW other than screenshots so I'll have to get savvy with a recording program! I've also never posted anything on Youtube - lol - what a noob I am! :eek:
And I'm going to need some time to practice BFD on the Warrior - and I'll probably need a lot of conjured mage foods - lol.
But the gauntlet's been thrown, so I will see what I can do! Stay tuned!

Hashbrowns said:
So @Crystalpall I thought if we could all do this is would be a good test:

Pull all mobs up to the water, turn around and tank/kill them. Record %health left after, DPS, etc and post.

That should give us a good idea how tanky we all are. Even playing field, like 8 mobs. Should be a good test.

Then I'll run the thing and post my thoughts.
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I like this idea @Hashbrowns. This will give us a decent idea about our tanking qualities. The Warrior is quite good when there's trash mobs falling all over the place so I can self heal ;)

I also want to have a few dps test runs for myself to see whether EF is better than Crusader for Prot. I've never tried EF on Prot but it may actually be decent.

I am accepting the challenge but will need a bit of time on this one!:)
 
I pulled the 8 to the water in BFD and almost died, not a fan of guardian druid. It's just high health. Tried a monk in stocks, died first pull. Granted I'm a total monk noob but stagger stacked really high and killed me. 16% armor too, not a fan. Tried prot pally in stocks, did well. Got hogger down to half but ran oom. Lots of CDs though, 100% consecration up-time is nice. Did better with Holy Shield then Blessed Hammer but it was only 2 attempts.

I guess I'm looking for the ultimate soloer. Healing is going to be essential so warrior is out. Monk was bad, guardian drops armor down to 16% to cast regrowth. Pally can't block dodge or parry while casting but you keep 43% armor mitigation plus whatever abilities you've used. I think we have a winner. Wish we could make a blood dk at 20...

If it's speed runs you are after druid might still be strong with dots and dash. Maybe I'll try a speed run in a bit. I like the more mitigation monster tank myself.
 
Don't rule Warrior out just yet @Hashbrowns because of healing! I did the test run to the water in BFD and nailed it every time. Lucky if I was 100 off max health by the end of it. Lots of self heals with so many trash mobs. Close to 45% armour also. Screen shot below :-
WoWScrnShot_060317_003145.jpg


And @Crystalpall u better be worried! Ol' Krystalhawk is in training!

First boss 'wink' 'wink' down!
WoWScrnShot_060317_004406.jpg

U need to be a little creative as Prot Warrior. I killed the neutral turtles and after the last one kept the self heal for the battle with Ghamoo-Ra. Then, as I was getting low, I charged those 2 crazy mobs running in circles off to the right, kill them and get the self heal, then finish the fight with the boss. Ghamoo-Ra - tick.

Ok, Thruk was interesting.
WoWScrnShot_060317_005213.jpg

I had to pop everything to stay up including my arena trinket and even at one point had to bandage because I was all out of healing abilities. Very close fight and just managed to down him!
Thruk - tick.

The Executioner boss I got stuck on. If I tried to fight toe to toe I just didn't have enough to stay up, then if I tried to be cheeky, jump in the water to kill a fish for the heal he'd disappear. I've got some sneaky ideas about how to deal with him so will try that next time I'm on.

You sweating yet @Crystalpall :p

Lastly a shot showing my stats. For some reason it's not showing any Dodge or Parry? But I'm running a Haste set so I get more uptime of Shield Block with its CD down to almost 10secs.
WoWScrnShot_060317_010138.jpg


Lastly, smashed out some bg's as Prot and was averaging 320 - 340 dps which I felt was quite a good show for a tanking class.

Oh, just a few last things I worked out along the way :-
Crusader is definitely better for Prot than Ele Force in terms of dps plus the heal sometimes Crits and is quite decent and it can proc quite quickly sometimes. I'm thinking the Haste set helps with this.
And Thorium Shield Spikes scale best at 20, followed by Mitrhil Shield Spikes.
Just if anyone is interested.;)
 
Nice, also if you haven't seen this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Aysr8WcIId_KOAARNNRUtqNH32_SaIlPn14YF64UXgk/pubhtml#

I made it to the boss that despawns all the time in like 10-11 mins, so on par with @Crystalpall. I'd be interested in seeing if they built the 20% damage reduction from defensive stance into something like http://www.wowhead.com/spell=29144/unwavering-sentinel. You seen the be surviving a lot with only a 30% damage red from block. Sometime they do this stuff and it doesn't make the tooltip. If I test and find anything I'll report back.

Oh and if you want to see dodge and parry click the lock icon at the top if your character window and turn it on. I had to do that with my tanks too.
 
The passive nerf for all tank specs in pvp was removed for both vengeance dh and bm monks. If you're looking for a tank that can do both pvp and pve, there is no competition. Kegsmash is still nice. Legion brought two ranged abilities as talents at 15 and chi-burst does decent damage. You can easily force defencives in pvp as bm.

Keeping up with BM tanks speeding through dungeons has always been hard for some although losing keg toss has slowed them down, they're great at speedrunning still.
 
AlisterCrow said:
The passive nerf for all tank specs in pvp was removed for both vengeance dh and bm monks. If you're looking for a tank that can do both pvp and pve, there is no competition. Kegsmash is still nice. Legion brought two ranged abilities as talents at 15 and chi-burst does decent damage. You can easily force defencives in pvp as bm.

Keeping up with BM tanks speeding through dungeons has always been hard for some although losing keg toss has slowed them down, they're great at speedrunning still.
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So I guess that's a "okay guys I'll join your competition"! ^^

@icehawk

Definetely not sweating, but I'm impressed :D can't wait to see your take on last three bosses.

@Hashbrowns

I was concerned with druid's speed but thought maybe they have crap dps to make up for it :>

Overall, I'm really glad you guys took this seriously!
 
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