Trial Twinking, R.I.P.
- Thread starter Neon
- Start date
Hashbrowns
Legend
I'm about to drop 1400 on a new desktop, at what point do you stop counting stuff as paid? Lol
Look I get it, and I hate 29s. If that's what it takes for you to compete in this bracket you need to reassess your WoW skills. But I also enjoy fair competition... And if a one time thing of 5-25 bucks can help close that gap, as a caster... I'm pretty open to do it.
dwaters11
Grandfathered
Is Skyrim free to play? What about Diablo 3? Once you pay for a game, it's a sunk cost. Just because you're not actively paying a subscription doesn't mean it's "free". It's the difference between a sunk cost and a fixed cost but both are still costs. Economics 101, bitches!
Last edited by a moderator:
Kincaide
Legend
Ignoring all the people that have already explained that your computer, the electricity to run it, the internet connection to access the servers, are all also "costs" that you have to pay for the privilege of playing the game. Saying that one playstyle fits this outdated moniker of "F2P" and another does not, is simply drawing an arbitrary line on the account balance wherever you personally choose to count or not count those costs. It's arbitrary, archaic, and as this thread (and others) clearly demonstrate, that kind of thinking is holding back progress of the community and the culture.
Allybeboba
Legend
You forgot the cost of your time. Mine is pretty precious.
Just ask my clients.
/cheers
Sweetsidney
Just ask my clients.
/cheers
Sweetsidney
Crystalpall
the F2P PvEr
Actually, if I can be heard as well, here is my 3 cents:
If you are being globalled by a spriest in gulch your thought process is "Damn, he deals so much damage because he is paying!" Or "Damn, he deals so much damage because of the gear advantage he has"
It's kinda pointless to generalize players in any way, but if we have to, just for thee sake of communication for example, let's refer to pigeonholing them gearwise not money wise. After all, there are trials with glitched gear and enchants, paid accounts with 100% trial like restrictions and other different "mutants"
If you are being globalled by a spriest in gulch your thought process is "Damn, he deals so much damage because he is paying!" Or "Damn, he deals so much damage because of the gear advantage he has"
It's kinda pointless to generalize players in any way, but if we have to, just for thee sake of communication for example, let's refer to pigeonholing them gearwise not money wise. After all, there are trials with glitched gear and enchants, paid accounts with 100% trial like restrictions and other different "mutants"
Shaket
Legend
An account is either free or not free, its not shades of grey, it either is or it isnt. Once you PAY for that account, it can no longer be called FREE. You can try to spin all sorts of bullshit into this, but a free account does not involve the exchange of money between the account holder and blizzard in order to play on that account. If you have at some point paid for that account(not the hydro, not the computer, obvious to anyone with a 3-digit IQ), that account by definition cannot be called FREE.
Don't build me an outhouse and call it the Taj Mahal.
Kincaide
Legend
It's kinda pointless to generalize players in any way, but if we have to, just for thee sake of communication for example, let's refer to pigeonholing them gearwise not money wise. After all, there are trials with glitched gear and enchants, paid accounts with 100% trial like restrictions and other different "mutants"
Finally someone who understands what I've been saying about needing new vocabulary because the old paying/not-paying dyad does not apply any more.
You don't limit tournaments, for example, by whether or not someone pays money. You limit them by what gear they're allowed to use. Come up with a new way of referring to different gearsets that DOES NOT involve talking about money spent, and THEN you will be making actual progress towards the future of twinking in this bracket.
Achmed
OG
This bracket deserves no respect as long as it's filled each xpac with those sad FOTM rerollers. We had 24's and p2p 20's in MoP, now at start of WoD we had 29's also. The arcane dream is true my friends! We now have some kind of F2P/P2P genetic experiment called Veteran Accounts with same advantages as normal P2P's over F2P's. It's enough.
I'm glad i'm enjoying endgame atm. F2P is RIP since WoD for me.
I'm glad i'm enjoying endgame atm. F2P is RIP since WoD for me.
Bop
Remember the Treeline
This discussion is going nowhere.
It is not productive. There is nothing healthy about how we are arguing, and the nature of the beast prevents any effective debate from happening.
My advice would be to wait until Tuesday. If you don't like the changes, quit. Or become much less active.
Old and I have been doing that for months. This is just another reason to move on.
It is not productive. There is nothing healthy about how we are arguing, and the nature of the beast prevents any effective debate from happening.
My advice would be to wait until Tuesday. If you don't like the changes, quit. Or become much less active.
Old and I have been doing that for months. This is just another reason to move on.
Kincaide
Legend
I don't play any of those games, so just tell me: are you required to pay a monthly fee to continue to have access to your permanent characters? If so, then it's a pay to play game. You have pay to play your characters. If not, then it's a free to play game. You do not have to pay to play your characters. Please let me know which part of that is not crystal clear.
Rhaellia
Has Been
I think it's time to stop this nonsense. Stop all this talk about 'fail to pay' or 'pay to lose' etc.
We have a great bracket. People like to talk about how it's the worst and how it's unbearably awful but this bracket has always had something the others never could have. Activity. Yes, 19s have games. Yes, 29s had games before we got merged. But we've always had games since F2P became a thing and it's almost never stopped. What other bracket has ever had that, post-XP-off? I can't think of any. We're talking years of constant pops. Is it perfect? No but it has great potential.
Our bracket has the rarest thing among any twink brackets, consistent activity. Its most precious commodity is being weighed down by imbalance, petty feuds, and general spitefulness. It's always been the bad side to this bracket, both the feud between 24s and now the merge, 29s and our gear and level differences. The feuds have generally been created by that gear and level difference, often perpetuated by arguments about our differences, completely ignoring our similarities. I would argue that probably the worst of those things is the imbalance, I think everything else stems from it too. No one likes imbalance, no one. Sure, some people like imbalance in their favor or in small doses but no one like imbalance against them. It's the very thing every PvPer hates. It's the thing that gets them all rallied up and sending angry Tweets to developers!
These things aside, we have a wonderful bracket with something none of the others have managed to maintain. Face it, F2P is popular. Who doesn't like something that's free? As a kid who was born to a middle class working family who has seen some hard times, I know the value of a dollar. I was taught to be froogle, some would say cheap. Hey, sue me! Maybe that's what made F2P accessible to me originally but it's not why I stayed. We have a large influx of newer players, people who come by, try it and stay. I was one of these players when I rolled on Aerie Peak and was a complete newbie. I never stopped, both being a F2P twink and... err being a newbie.
All I ever wanted was for this bracket to be fair. For the longest time, I thought the best way to do that was to get people to convert, to use F2P restricted gear. This was rather naive of me but I like to think my intentions were good. When I was on Aerie Peak horde I prided myself on helping newer P2Ps to the realm gear. I would give them things like Magician's Mantle, armor kits, enchants. I encouraged them to be restricted, they often agreed only to change their gear and or level later. At this time, I didn't play much at 20 but it still stung. I've always been passionate about F2Ps and this bracket. I saw it as a betrayal to my kindness and the bracket.
Up until now, there had never been both an easy and realistic way to balance the bracket. I could be wrong, veteran accounts might not even work how we expect (or even ruin the bracket) but they could be the answer. It was unrealistic to ask people to sacrifice their advantage, their power and make themselves feel weaker in the name of balance. Now, we can not only make all of us stronger BUT for free, essentially. Now we have a realistic way to balance the bracket. If we all use enchants and heirlooms we could possibly make this bracket better. Does that mean F2P as we know it is changed? Yes but don't we want a more balanced and fair bracket? I really believe that, that is in fact what most of us want. We already have the activity, now all we need is the balance and with that, the respect for each other will come naturally.
I apologize for the long post and know that I probably lost most of you somewhere at the top. I just feel very passionately about this topic. I thank any and all of you who manage to make it through my long-winded dribble bracket nonsense. Here, have some funk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezowHu_nxes
We have a great bracket. People like to talk about how it's the worst and how it's unbearably awful but this bracket has always had something the others never could have. Activity. Yes, 19s have games. Yes, 29s had games before we got merged. But we've always had games since F2P became a thing and it's almost never stopped. What other bracket has ever had that, post-XP-off? I can't think of any. We're talking years of constant pops. Is it perfect? No but it has great potential.
Our bracket has the rarest thing among any twink brackets, consistent activity. Its most precious commodity is being weighed down by imbalance, petty feuds, and general spitefulness. It's always been the bad side to this bracket, both the feud between 24s and now the merge, 29s and our gear and level differences. The feuds have generally been created by that gear and level difference, often perpetuated by arguments about our differences, completely ignoring our similarities. I would argue that probably the worst of those things is the imbalance, I think everything else stems from it too. No one likes imbalance, no one. Sure, some people like imbalance in their favor or in small doses but no one like imbalance against them. It's the very thing every PvPer hates. It's the thing that gets them all rallied up and sending angry Tweets to developers!
These things aside, we have a wonderful bracket with something none of the others have managed to maintain. Face it, F2P is popular. Who doesn't like something that's free? As a kid who was born to a middle class working family who has seen some hard times, I know the value of a dollar. I was taught to be froogle, some would say cheap. Hey, sue me! Maybe that's what made F2P accessible to me originally but it's not why I stayed. We have a large influx of newer players, people who come by, try it and stay. I was one of these players when I rolled on Aerie Peak and was a complete newbie. I never stopped, both being a F2P twink and... err being a newbie.
All I ever wanted was for this bracket to be fair. For the longest time, I thought the best way to do that was to get people to convert, to use F2P restricted gear. This was rather naive of me but I like to think my intentions were good. When I was on Aerie Peak horde I prided myself on helping newer P2Ps to the realm gear. I would give them things like Magician's Mantle, armor kits, enchants. I encouraged them to be restricted, they often agreed only to change their gear and or level later. At this time, I didn't play much at 20 but it still stung. I've always been passionate about F2Ps and this bracket. I saw it as a betrayal to my kindness and the bracket.
Up until now, there had never been both an easy and realistic way to balance the bracket. I could be wrong, veteran accounts might not even work how we expect (or even ruin the bracket) but they could be the answer. It was unrealistic to ask people to sacrifice their advantage, their power and make themselves feel weaker in the name of balance. Now, we can not only make all of us stronger BUT for free, essentially. Now we have a realistic way to balance the bracket. If we all use enchants and heirlooms we could possibly make this bracket better. Does that mean F2P as we know it is changed? Yes but don't we want a more balanced and fair bracket? I really believe that, that is in fact what most of us want. We already have the activity, now all we need is the balance and with that, the respect for each other will come naturally.
I apologize for the long post and know that I probably lost most of you somewhere at the top. I just feel very passionately about this topic. I thank any and all of you who manage to make it through my long-winded dribble bracket nonsense. Here, have some funk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezowHu_nxes
Last edited by a moderator:
Achmed
OG
One side note to your wall of text. You should use more often the "I Think" instead of WE as a whole. Why? Cuz it's obvious i don't agree with you on the fact that this is a good bracket. And i'm not the only one. I consider it to be a shit bracket these days, i see no quality and/or entertaining in it. I'd raher take back the gay-Hunters pre-WoD that this shitstorm.
/peace
/peace
Kincaide
Legend
So what bracket do you play instead then? What bracket do you spend most of your time in? Just curious about which one you would say is better.
Achmed
OG
Lvl100 PVP.
willix
Legend
The problem here is not the terminology being used, but your argument. Other people are correct in pointing out that a veteran account is not 'free to play.' In fact, there's already a term for games like this, it's 'buy to play.' This term has been around for a long time and traditionally speaking, games have mostly been B2P. As in, you buy the game and you play it without having to pay additional money in order to keep playing.
Within the last decade, games have made a major shift from this B2P model to what we find today among the F2P, P2P, and P2W models. Some games are still B2P, while many feature two or more modes. For example, SWTOR has all the different pay models: F2P (up to level 50), P2P (sub fee for access to content past level 50), B2P (extra content and features for those who buy the content), and P2W (a cash shop that offers both cosmetic and power items for the game).
Wow is not much different. We have F2P, P2P, and B2P. Veteran accounts are just a new forum of B2P, intended for players who have taken a break from the game but still want to have access to friends and guildies.
So as you can see, the problem isn't the terms, but your understanding of them. I have no problem having a discussion with people and understanding those terms when used. You should probably stop arguing that veterans are F2P.
Rusks
Legend
bm monks dont have gaurd at 19