EU+US With a new map, comes new rules.. [TC19]

[Blackout]

Alright everybody!

This thread is targeted at establishing official LEGAL and ILLEGAL "Jumps" in the new Warsong Gulch map, which will have influence over the ruling of jumps in the up and coming Twink Cup.

Discussion of explainable jumps is fine, however it would become much more informative if people willing to get involved in the discussion would use ingame screenshots to highlight which jumps they are referring to in their opinions. A good idea would be to annotate / draw on the screenshots to indicate which routes you are referring to and aid you in explaining your points.

ALL Feedback on these "Jumps" is appreciated and will be read, so please don't shy away from getting involved in the discussion!

Thanks

 

[Bestworld]

@Devm @Mvq

 

[jwl]

What qualifies an illegal jump, as an illegal jump? There has to be certain variables involved to determine this.

I feel like anything that requires a particular framework (IE race specific) should be deemed illegal.
Major exploits shouldn't be allowed either.
For the most part, I think the majority of jumps should be allowed. Everyone has the opportunity to practice them, and it'd be great seeing players using the new map to its greatest potential.

 

[Bestworld]

What qualifies an illegal jump, as an illegal jump? There has to be certain variables involved to determine this.

I feel like anything that requires a particular framework (IE race specific) should be deemed illegal.
Major exploits shouldn't be allowed either.
For the most part, I think the majority of jumps should be allowed. Everyone has the opportunity to practice them, and it'd be great seeing players using the new map to its greatest potential.

Yes, that's how it's been in the past. Mainly jumps that can only be performed at a druid-only speed were deemed illegal. That's like the general rule of thumb. Then there are obvious jumps that makes you go out of bounds etc. that are also illegal.

Jumps that give major advantages, such as GY jumps also.

 

[Muskie]

also disengaging weird places or goblin jumping

 

[Bestworld]

also disengaging weird places or goblin jumping

Only if end-destination is completely unaccessible by other classes imo, so that needs to be worded carefully in the actual rule set.

 

[SPQR]

Ban the hord ramp fence jumping and the ledge between roof and floor at alliance flagroom

 

[Muskie]

Only if end-destination is completely unaccessible by other classes imo, so that needs to be worded carefully in the actual rule set.

bro, i said weird.

 

[xanx]

bro, i said weird.

we aint talkin ya beard

 

[Bestworld]

bro, i said weird.

Yeah, but "weird" is a very loose term, is what I'm getting at, so it has to be worded correctly for the actual rule set. But I get what you're saying.

 

[Eclipsis]

Wasn't it always just things that allow access to locations not otherwise accessible, things that aren't doable without specific class / race abilities, and 1-2 of the particularly egregious asymmetrical jumps where the other side hasn't got an equivalent option.

Tbf one massive problem, jumps aside is that the whole of alliance roof has no LoS.

 

[Fancy]

The horde hut isn't los, you can trinket the flag stacks, gotta start putting in bug reports

 

[Sean4w]

I understand jumps are cool but unbind spacebar problem solved

 

[Devm]

I guess it's time someone said this...
GY jumps (jumps up to GY not from GY up to ramp) should've been legal a long time ago. Both sides have had jumps to get up GY since the dawn of Warsong Gulch, jumps that are doable by every race and class. Jumps that aren't necessarily harder than other jumps that ARE legal. People that are crying about that, should git gud.

Sure, it may be easier on one side... but by that logic ToT jumps should be banned aswell. Horde has always been substantially easier than Alliance when it comes to ToT jumps. But they're legal. When you look at effectiveness and tactical gain, ToT jumps still win in those departments whilst being legal unlike GY jumps, so that arguement is also out the window.

So what's left? Can someone give me a single arguement to ban GY jumps that I haven't debunked yet?
It's just one of those things that rooted into people's minds over the years to an extent that it's a generally acknowledged thing without ever being contested by reason.
All because a bunch of people cry and are too bad to learn jumps (which is a huge part of twinking), to save themselves some trouble and limit other people's capabilities for their benefit.
For those who feel personally addressed by the sentence above, please do feel insulted, that was the intention.

The point of competitive gaming, is to win/be the best right? Which means using the resources at your disposal to the best of your ability to gain an advantage over your opponents. The same resources that are provided to them, resources they can't effectively make use of. That's their fault, why would I handicap myself because my opponent is having a hard time. Lmao
It's like having a calculator at your disposal on a math exam, but you're not using the calculator because you don't know how it works. That's your damn fault you dumb cunt you shoulda learned.

bye

 

[Puempeekstoh]

I guess it's time someone said this...
GY jumps (jumps up to GY not from GY up to ramp) should've been legal a long time ago. Both sides have had jumps to get up GY since the dawn of Warsong Gulch, jumps that are doable by every race and class. Jumps that aren't necessarily harder than other jumps that ARE legal. People that are crying about that, should git gud.

Sure, it may be easier on one side... but by that logic ToT jumps should be banned aswell. Horde has always been substantially easier than Alliance when it comes to ToT jumps. But they're legal. When you look at effectiveness and tactical gain, ToT jumps still win in those departments whilst being legal unlike GY jumps, so that arguement is also out the window.

So what's left? Can someone give me a single arguement to ban GY jumps that I haven't debunked yet?
It's just one of those things that rooted into people's minds over the years to an extent that it's a generally acknowledged thing without ever being contested by reason.
All because a bunch of people cry and are too bad to learn jumps (which is a huge part of twinking), to save themselves some trouble and limit other people's capabilities for their benefit.
For those who feel personally addressed by the sentence above, please do feel insulted, that was the intention.

The point of competitive gaming, is to win/be the best right? Which means using the resources at your disposal to the best of your ability to gain an advantage over your opponents. The same resources that are provided to them, resources they can't effectively make use of. That's their fault, why would I handicap myself because my opponent is having a hard time. Lmao
It's like having a calculator at your disposal on a math exam, but you're not using the calculator because you don't know how it works. That's your damn fault you dumb cunt you shoulda learned. I'm gonna use it.

This post is not just about GY jumps, but about all "illegal" things that should be legal if people didn't have an IQ lower than their age and started thinking rationally. Just look at the points I'm making and don't dismiss it with a "they're banned, period" type of mentality. If that's the case you're nothing but a dumb noob and a hypocrite and should l2p

bye

So what you're saying is you're mad you got banned from a previous twink cup?

 

[artonkn]

Only allow the hardest jumps no pussy shit allowed

 

[jwl]

jumps that can only be performed at a druid-only speed were deemed illegal.

Yeah I didnt mention druid-specific jumps for a reason lol. Glad you brought them up though... (sarcasm)

also disengaging weird places or goblin jumping

I believe that Worgen-speed, goblin-jump, disengage, etc. should be allowed, when incorporated into legal jumps.

GY jumps (jumps up to GY not from GY up to ramp) should've been legal a long time ago. Both sides have had jumps to get up GY since the dawn of Warsong Gulch, jumps that are doable by every race and class. Jumps that aren't necessarily harder than other jumps that ARE legal.

I agree.
There are multiple ways up both Alliance & Horde graveyards, and there is really no reason as to why they should be illegal.
However, climbing up Horde GY then climbing to either TOT or FR from there shouldn't be allowed...given that Alliance doesn't have that same opportunity (to my knowledge).

What I am saying, is that neither faction should have an advantage over another.
If faction X cant use GY as an escape route, then faction Y shouldn't be allowed to use their GY as one.

Only allow the hardest jumps no pussy shit allowed

I'd like to see players using any jump honestly, as long as its incorporated in a practical way for gap-closing or LOS.

 

[Bestworld]

Jumping up to GY should remain illegal. The way that it's easily gauntlet'ed with easy access of LoS, and a place where your team literally resurrects are all HUGE factors. In that case, it's not just about whether the jump is easy or not, it's about the impact it'll have at that point.

We have plenty of evidence of how HUGE it is to successfully pass up the flag to GY, and how it literally resets the entire momentum and allows a quick shift in momentum as well. Now imagine that you don't even have to invest into a pass.

Another thing is if you invested into a GY play as well (by passing), allowing the enemy team to simply jump up the GY would nullify any effort of that play also. They suddenly don't feel the need to drag a group of people to run around, up tunnel/ramp (which in some cases will give you a window to regain control of your GY situation, because they'll be down a few players during that movement).

So allowing GY jumps (up to GY) would be a bad idea, imo.

 

[Swoops]

The walls next to the door from ally tunnel to roof ramp aren't LoS either. Should prob cover all that nonsense, odds are the walls won't be fixed anytime soon.

Sure, it may be easier on one side... but by that logic ToT jumps should be banned aswell. Horde has always been substantially easier than Alliance when it comes to ToT jumps. But they're legal. When you look at effectiveness and tactical gain, ToT jumps still win in those departments whilst being legal unlike GY jumps, so that arguement is also out the window.

Can you compare the tactical gain of ToT jumps vs. GY jumps? Idc that much about the outcome, I'm just curious what your thoughts are. GY jumps seem way more impactful to me since they give you an escape route when your team is pushed back to GY.

 

[Mvq]

assuming each xyz location has a circle of 2.5 yards, every xyz location's circle that can only be reached by the usage of spells, including Travel Form, should be banned

everything else, allow it