- Status
Painaid
The Immortal
In order of impact:
XP-Off - This has prevented the bracket from growing and expanding. Not everyone knows that you can even turn off your XP, let alone where to and how to do so. This has limited the pool of players in the bracket, making the playerbase and the guilds themselves more and more incestuous. Like any other time, people slowly leave the bracket and move on to other things in life. But now, there is no longer new people there to replace the old ones that are leaving the bracket because the XP-Off option has less exposure. It's like a leak in a pool with no way to add water back to it.
No Premades - My primary reason for leaving was no premades. Everyone was afraid to organize and just play games to have fun. All they care about is their W/L record and how the rest of the community will perceive them. It's disappointing how this attitude is so prevalent in the bracket, but it has ultimately led to the demise of competitive play in 19s and has further corroded the active playerbase causing many to leave out of disgust. And of course it doesn't help that Blizzard continues to make it extremely difficult to coordinate premades in the first place, with the queue bugs and the 5 player max rule.
Class Imbalance - An obvious reason. Hunters, Pallies, Priests. All ridiculous. Warlocks, Warriors, Druids, and Shaman are now a shadow of their former selves. This makes the last avenue of 19 twinking - PuGs - much less enjoyable. Without a healthy community of pugging, the show simply cannot go on. And it's disheartening to go into game after game and see the enemy team entirely composed of those three classes with maybe a token rogue here and there.
Faction Imbalance - From what I glean from people I still talk to, faction imbalance is as prevalent as it ever was. While it's true that even in the golden days this advantage was known to fluctuate, judging by posts by people like Gracob trying to revive the Alliance side is only further evidence of how skewed and unfair PuGs have become, especially for the Alliance. You can credit this as a consequence of competitive 19s being stamped out long ago. Since premades no longer happen, there is no longer guilds on both factions that can serve as anchors for the faction playerbase. Nowadays, guilds form with only the intent to pug and converse--not to premade. And with this goal in mind, it's at no fault at their own to want to create the guild on horde side, since that faction has proven more successful. And this trend only continues to snowball.
No Arenas - I didn't arena, but plenty of people certainly did. Many people did nothing but arena, and those people having simply moved on from the bracket now. Arenas also bolstered community and were a means to keep competitive 19s alive when premades weren't happening. The removal of arenas was the final nail in the coffin for competitive players in the 19 bracket. Without arenas, the bracket offers absolutely nothing to competitive players. Only the casuals and perennials now remain.
No Dedicated WoW forums for Twinking - Some may disagree with this one, but ever since battlegroups were merged and twinks no longer had an entire battlegroup forum to make their very own forum (Ruin BG), the online forum community has become a dud. Sure, you have your token 19 thread on the Battlegrounds forum, but that simply isn't the same. There's no more trashtalking, no more community, no more competitive spin. It's completely drowned out by the much more busy forum. Twink Info has also failed to make up for this void. TI is good for meta-talk, analysis, and guild recruitment, but not for creating an immersive community. The sense of community that Battlegroups fostered has completely eroded. Blizzard has expanded the reach of twinks to all battlegroups, but at the expense of no tangible community left to reach out to. So it leaves one wondering whether it is even worth playing anymore if you do not know the people you're playing with/against. After all, a popular attraction to twinking over years was the close-knit community.
The Verdict - Are 19's doomed to a tragic demise? No, not for a long while anyway. But you simply can't deny the warning signs that are manifesting themselves. Summer has been known as a huge catalyst in reviving twinking, but this year it seems to have had a much more limited effect. I certainly don't see the bracket blooming again without direct intervention from Blizzard. As Drayner pointed out, another 'ruin migration' tactic won't sort out the problems this time.
XP-Off - This has prevented the bracket from growing and expanding. Not everyone knows that you can even turn off your XP, let alone where to and how to do so. This has limited the pool of players in the bracket, making the playerbase and the guilds themselves more and more incestuous. Like any other time, people slowly leave the bracket and move on to other things in life. But now, there is no longer new people there to replace the old ones that are leaving the bracket because the XP-Off option has less exposure. It's like a leak in a pool with no way to add water back to it.
No Premades - My primary reason for leaving was no premades. Everyone was afraid to organize and just play games to have fun. All they care about is their W/L record and how the rest of the community will perceive them. It's disappointing how this attitude is so prevalent in the bracket, but it has ultimately led to the demise of competitive play in 19s and has further corroded the active playerbase causing many to leave out of disgust. And of course it doesn't help that Blizzard continues to make it extremely difficult to coordinate premades in the first place, with the queue bugs and the 5 player max rule.
Class Imbalance - An obvious reason. Hunters, Pallies, Priests. All ridiculous. Warlocks, Warriors, Druids, and Shaman are now a shadow of their former selves. This makes the last avenue of 19 twinking - PuGs - much less enjoyable. Without a healthy community of pugging, the show simply cannot go on. And it's disheartening to go into game after game and see the enemy team entirely composed of those three classes with maybe a token rogue here and there.
Faction Imbalance - From what I glean from people I still talk to, faction imbalance is as prevalent as it ever was. While it's true that even in the golden days this advantage was known to fluctuate, judging by posts by people like Gracob trying to revive the Alliance side is only further evidence of how skewed and unfair PuGs have become, especially for the Alliance. You can credit this as a consequence of competitive 19s being stamped out long ago. Since premades no longer happen, there is no longer guilds on both factions that can serve as anchors for the faction playerbase. Nowadays, guilds form with only the intent to pug and converse--not to premade. And with this goal in mind, it's at no fault at their own to want to create the guild on horde side, since that faction has proven more successful. And this trend only continues to snowball.
No Arenas - I didn't arena, but plenty of people certainly did. Many people did nothing but arena, and those people having simply moved on from the bracket now. Arenas also bolstered community and were a means to keep competitive 19s alive when premades weren't happening. The removal of arenas was the final nail in the coffin for competitive players in the 19 bracket. Without arenas, the bracket offers absolutely nothing to competitive players. Only the casuals and perennials now remain.
No Dedicated WoW forums for Twinking - Some may disagree with this one, but ever since battlegroups were merged and twinks no longer had an entire battlegroup forum to make their very own forum (Ruin BG), the online forum community has become a dud. Sure, you have your token 19 thread on the Battlegrounds forum, but that simply isn't the same. There's no more trashtalking, no more community, no more competitive spin. It's completely drowned out by the much more busy forum. Twink Info has also failed to make up for this void. TI is good for meta-talk, analysis, and guild recruitment, but not for creating an immersive community. The sense of community that Battlegroups fostered has completely eroded. Blizzard has expanded the reach of twinks to all battlegroups, but at the expense of no tangible community left to reach out to. So it leaves one wondering whether it is even worth playing anymore if you do not know the people you're playing with/against. After all, a popular attraction to twinking over years was the close-knit community.
The Verdict - Are 19's doomed to a tragic demise? No, not for a long while anyway. But you simply can't deny the warning signs that are manifesting themselves. Summer has been known as a huge catalyst in reviving twinking, but this year it seems to have had a much more limited effect. I certainly don't see the bracket blooming again without direct intervention from Blizzard. As Drayner pointed out, another 'ruin migration' tactic won't sort out the problems this time.
Painaid
The Immortal
shanker said:
And I'm guessing you have absolutely no idea what the term anecdotal evidence means. Hint: It's exactly what you're providing.
Here, let me help you out a bit more:
The expression anecdotal evidence refers both to evidence that is factually unreliable, as well as evidence that may be true but cherry-picked or otherwise unrepresentative of typical cases.
Evidence, which may itself be true and verifiable, used to deduce a conclusion which does not follow from it, usually by generalizing from an insufficient amount of evidence.
-Wikipedia
The only thing your 'cherry-picked' screenshots prove is that outliers exist. Which is to say, nothing.
Synrai
Legend
So one warrior tops the damage charts and that gives amnesty to the insane survivability and damage dealing capacity of hunters?
You know the warrior you're bitching about is hopped up on Midsummer buffs, -right-?
EDIT:
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/5550/sinraiwreckingball.png
Look at me! I got wrecking ball as a mage! Clearly this is proof that hunters are in no way shape or form in need of a nerf!
You know the warrior you're bitching about is hopped up on Midsummer buffs, -right-?
EDIT:
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/5550/sinraiwreckingball.png
Look at me! I got wrecking ball as a mage! Clearly this is proof that hunters are in no way shape or form in need of a nerf!
augiddin
Legend
shanker said:
This could also be the result of the warrior farming mid super hard and getting heals and can have no bearing on th effectiveness of the class when it really matters. The problem with hunters isn't their damage it's the extreme mobility,control and survivability they have with the damage. IE things that transcend numbers on a chart.
danceparty
Legend
I'd like Rance a lot more if he did more than farm. I don't think I've ever seen him do a single thing to help win a game.
shanker
OG
Painaid said:
it is your opinion 5 screen shots are cherry picked/Anecdotal_evidence. never the less...they actually happened. hence the term SS or it didn't happen.
5 screenshots show:
- team with most hunters isn't a auto win
- warrior was top DPS (in another thread is another shot of another warrior)
- warlock can be right there with hunters just a less rolled class
- healers and paladins determine most of the games. i have screen shot'd games of this before in other threads.
- far better sampling of when i play 5 twinks covering 2 factions than most of the screen shot QQ threads on TI
there is a limit on uploading shots to this site....i could keep them rolling. i have to delete to make space at times
lets not forget the Anecdotal_evidence "single" screen shot blog started by creator of this thread back in 2009 concerning hunters being OP back then. yet his warlock was top damager, top KB's, 2 flag returns. now we have same poster with no facts, or even Anecdotal_evidence making the same claims again.
Diiesel
OG
I would have to say the biggest problem with 19s is the amount of damage dealt vs the amount of HP given. Try to remember back to BC (if you played then) when twinks had 2K+ but didnt do the damage that we do now. I remember being on my Warrior tanking 5+ with a single paladin healer (Snoopie -Vinidication). If we were given Fishing Boots back, Leg Armor Kits, and Librams, I think the bracket would seem a lot less bursty.
Arkant
Freedom~
shanker said:
Still: Hunter < healer doesn't make them less OP.
We all know that locks can easily top the charts, same goes for warriors when they aim for it. What makes hunters so OP is not only their damage, it is the utility and survivability they got paired with the damage. Warriors/warlocks have nothing comparable to offer.
Enno
Legend
So many variables per game, including pocket healing and the play styles they themselves perform. Some games are just easier for classes like the warlock to just blend in the background and just dot everything up. My feeling is that, regardless of the situation or outcome, the hunter will still make a dramatic effect on the game through damage and killing blows.
The only thing I can come up with but has been said for years is:
other classes...just have to try that much harder to even get to the level hunters are on.
on a bad day? they'll still outperform 50% of the battleground.
The only thing I can come up with but has been said for years is:
other classes...just have to try that much harder to even get to the level hunters are on.
on a bad day? they'll still outperform 50% of the battleground.
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