We could do more

Well, y'all know where I stand on this subject. As [MENTION=18878]AlbinoCow[/MENTION] said, I would attend every 10v10 premade wargame that my school schedule allows me to. I encourage people to consider taking back AP. It got a negative reputation at one point because some people "took it over" with negative talk or whatever, but as easily as one group can "take it over", another group can take it back.

I have more to offer in the way of useful characters if we crossrealm, but The Original Kincaide is not too shabby and I check in on her on AP once in a while. If/when the BoA tab is implemented, I would have no problems with recreating my druid/priest/rogue characters on AP, if that would make doing 10v10s easier.

I'm sorry that my school commitments prevent me from taking a direct leadership role in AP again, but I will support to the best of my ability whomsoever want to make great things happen.
 
The game has never been more balanced for f2ps than it is right now so there hasn't been a better time to organize events, of course finding a good time such as after fishing tourney would be essential with a person who can take the lead role to organize. I will look forward to some more encouraging threads!
 
youbeezy said:
15 Minutes With HB ep. 70 - What the F^ck People? | bisnation.net
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Everything I am about to say is mentioned somewhere in this podcast, but I'll make up an analogy, to sum up the state of the bracket, 'cause that's what I do:

We're like a kid on Christmas that got overwhelmed by getting everything he asked for, and then decided to make a fort out of the big cardboard box because it's novel and unexpected.


I think we're all doing something, but god knows what. We didn't see all this coming, and we don't even know where to start. I think a lot of people are half-assing it right now just waiting for WoD proper to hit. When it does, we'll need some leadership to steer people in the right direction. What that direction is: I don't know. But I'm working on it.

However, everyone needs to stop queueing for Alterac Valley when they queue for randoms. They've got to click the little dice icon and disable it. Having it enabled is killing our queue times. If you want to queue for AV, do it specifically. You can queue for randoms and specifics at the same time.

We also need to find a way of getting this message to Latin America because they most likely have no idea about this, and are sandbagging the bracket without even know it.




Credit to HB and yoube on their podcast for saying what I'd been thinking for awhile. People that put time and effort into improving the communities are too few and far between. So step it up y'all!


*wags fingers, and then promptly hides in a corner*
 
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Activate said:
The solution is staring you straight in the face. You guys* rerolled elsewhere because you didn't want to help new players on AP. Because of this we have to reroll on a "secret" server? Ask Korgath how well that worked out. The reason we can't get big events rolling is because the core we need has spread itself all over the place. You're right, cross realm is an enormous hurdle, one that has rarely been overcome. The only reason any major crz event was succesful is one person put in an enormous, inoridinate and relatively thankless amount of work. Shot's fired, if you left AP you're the problem.

Here's an example. The arena junkies have rerolled countless times but guess where they login when they want arenas? That's right, AP Horde. Jumping ship was a short sighted reactionary choice and the result is nothing but random queues for you and sporadic events for us. Get the fuck over it and ignore someone ingame if you are so distressed by what they say. Splitting up DOES NOT WORK with a limited community.

tl;dr reroll/return to AP or gtfo

PS Hash this is a general @ response, I'm not attacking you individually.
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The funny thing about the original AP rerollers is that they weren't any better than many of the 'randoms' I played with in the English EU (pre-jaja invasion) and German brackets, but the piss poor state of the US bracket had them believing that they were better at the game than they really were.

No idea who the new generation of rerollers are, but I'm sure this is still the case.
 
I still don't understand why people rolled on other servers instead of staying on AP and using a super special elitist passworded chat channel instead of "f2ptwink". You all could have had your arena server and still been able to use the AP support infrastructure (p2ps, randos to fill groups). And then you wouldn't have ended up with a bunch of geared 20s stranded on dead servers to complicate xrealm grouping. I said as much back when AP was being overrun.

Anyway, any time I am subbed I am willing to be online and shepherd 20s around in the service of real community events. Activate is correct though, the last several community events involved a ridiculous amount of organization, and they were plagued by people leaving randomly and not following instructions. I could see something limited like war games working, but I can't volunteer to lead anything like the more exotic events that were tried in times past, like gnomeball or the ZG pseudo-BG thing.
 
Full Support for this thread. I've been wanting to do some AV Wargames to PvE Raid Van and Drek. But obviously we could do more than just PvE amirite?
 
Activate said:
The solution is staring you straight in the face. You guys* rerolled elsewhere because you didn't want to help new players on AP. Because of this we have to reroll on a "secret" server? Ask Korgath how well that worked out. The reason we can't get big events rolling is because the core we need has spread itself all over the place. You're right, cross realm is an enormous hurdle, one that has rarely been overcome. The only reason any major crz event was succesful is one person put in an enormous, inoridinate and relatively thankless amount of work. Shot's fired, if you left AP you're the problem.

Here's an example. The arena junkies have rerolled countless times but guess where they login when they want arenas? That's right, AP Horde. Jumping ship was a short sighted reactionary choice and the result is nothing but random queues for you and sporadic events for us. Get the fuck over it and ignore someone ingame if you are so distressed by what they say. Splitting up DOES NOT WORK with a limited community.

tl;dr reroll/return to AP or gtfo

PS Hash this is a general @ response, I'm not attacking you individually.
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Activate said:
It is so obviously apparent that TI is not a suitable venue for reorganizing US events. Just look at the sort of dickering responses in this thread. People want to weigh in when they have nothing at all meaningful to contribute. The effort is diluted and squandered by people who want something to happen but are either to ill-equipped or afraid of the spotlight to actually do anything. I won't even exclude myself from that group. I don't know who I'm talking to or if you exist at all. If you are out there, I can help.

If there is not some singular person who can be the answer to our prayers maybe we can come together as a collective to fill that same role.
AlbinoCow bigdip Bizarre Brov Deadvulcano Decem Deej Fael Felix Flynn Hunnybuns Izac Kincaide Kochist Lankypuss LennywBoreanTundra Licholas Maxwell Malice Mialo morphx Music Neon numbernine Phrontistery pinochet Pixel Pooh Purse Rhaellia Robert the Druid Sabzep Shft Snowjobs srs bsns Sundusk Swag Twinkenstein wicktick Yasueh Zorglub Hashbrowns Bop sevenslacks7 Mrcer Adal @whoever will contribute

It doesn't have to be a big time sink.
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Hoooray for the anti eyepatch BG rerolls.

I just had to say it ;-)
 
srs bsns said:
We're like a kid on Christmas that got overwhelmed by getting everything he asked for and more, and then decided to make a fort out of the big cardboard box because it's novel and unexpected.
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I think it's more like 4 kids, 1 and 2 like BGs, 3 and 4 like arenas, then splitting them another way, 1 and 3 like regular BGs/Arenas while 2 and 4 like wargames.

Thing is, while all the kids got what they wanted, 3 of them ended up with 'batteries not included'.


  • Regular BGs - Pro: 2 new BGs and scaling. - Con: queue times.
  • Skirmishes - Pro: we can actually do them. - Con: no scaling.
  • Wargame BGs - Pro: we can do them. - Con: fucked up GYs for one team, unless you organise with the other faction.

So just one kid both got what they wanted, and is able to play with it; the one who plays wargame arenas.

Meanwhile everyone else is still playing in cardboard boxes like they were before xmas.

Thing is a bunch of those problems should be pretty easy to fix, except we're talking about Blizzard here, a company with a very long history of making token gestures towards PvP, and low level PvP in particular - putting some nice, but unfinished feature in the game every now and then, but then not doing any fixes for it, and forgetting about it to go back to working on endgame PvE - so there's every chance things will stay fucked up at least until the next expansion after WoD.

As usual that leaves fixing things to us. There are some problems with this though.


  • Firstly there's the amount of energy it takes to organise things. You're not going to put time in to help other people when a lot of them are downright ungrateful and disrespectful towards everyone around them, or when they see that you're the kind of person who helps others, they join in on this thing you worked hard to build, without really giving anything in return, or they just keep demanding more and more from you.
  • Secondly, what we really need is more people involved. There's plenty of unguilded 20s out there, and it may even be possible to get the chat to work across linked realms, so there could be more people out there who'd be willing to work towards something good. The trouble is, with AP f2p chat regularly turning into barrens chat, there's no way we can invite them, because they'll leave as soon as some of the existing 'community' start filling the channel with their usual crap, giving them a very poor first impression.

If you want to build a good solid community, you have to be exclusive. There will always be people in society who contribute nothing meaningful, and bring down everyone else, and they should be excluded from the group.

Trouble is, there's no way to do this in the chat channel. Moderation is flaky because of the way the server assigns channel owner. Absolutely anyone can join, and even if they get banned whoever randomly gets mod can unban them, or the banlist gets wiped every server restart.



Right now it's like f2pchat is a shop that's letting in anyone off the street, and we don't have any security to kick out those who might decide to jerk around and waste the staff's time when they have other customers to serve, or the occasional guy who decides to take a dump in the middle of the store, just because he can totally get away with it.

The solution? Make f2pchat the street, and have something else become the store. That way we can get some security, and people coming into the store will behave a bit more respectably, knowing they can be kicked out.

Of course we can't do this in game, because the tools for it aren't available there, so it means doing it outside, setting up a mumble server, and some forums (preferably separate from this hive of scum and villainy), effectively making a guild, except without the actual in game guild.



I've already got a webserver which is paid for for a few months. I'll need to install mumble and some forum software, along with a wiki to put all the guides and help pages on, then I'll need to make it all work together, and make it look nice. Thing is, I keep asking myself if I really want to go to all that trouble, because it's going to take a lot of work, and leave me with a huge responsibility to keep it running.
 
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When I first joined AP H and the "old" crew was still around, they lead by example. We need a rallying point. Preferably a person or group of persons who new members can look to for example rather than tightening the screws and wasting resources.
 
Yasueh said:
Thing is, I keep asking myself if I really want to go to all that trouble, because it's going to take a lot of work, and leave me with a huge responsibility to keep it running.
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Yasueh you're very generous and certainly you've taken on way more than enough for the community by writing and maintaining the addon... There's a Mumble server out there already--I don't know who maintains it but it's certainly functional--and I think the situation on the forum here is similar to the situation in chat on AP: Enough like-minded people working towards the same goal can change a tool from being wretched to being useful. Aren't there some sort of user groups you can make on TI? We could look into that.
 
Yasueh said:
I've already got a webserver which is paid for for a few months. I'll need to install mumble and some forum software, along with a wiki to put all the guides and help pages on, then I'll need to make it all work together, and make it look nice. Thing is, I keep asking myself if I really want to go to all that trouble, because it's going to take a lot of work, and leave me with a huge responsibility to keep it running.
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Yea you shouldn't be strapped to make that happen. Can we do like a general channel everyone can join and then another that someone could make that would be password protected? So the general channel would be like trade chat and the password one would be a guild.

The podcast linked early was talking about how /wargame partylead can Q a wargame across servers. It would be great if f2paddon could have a UI were a party member could request a wargame. That would contain a list of all the party leads that wanted to wargame. The party lead could find one they liked and right click on the name and request wargame, with that command. You'd have to log the party lead and server once they joined. And that list would have to be stored where everyone's addon could reach it. Maybe with a timeout option to delete a name is inactive, or 3 denied wargames.
 
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Fixing AP Community? Reclaiming AP from negativity?

I sorta know how to work around the F2Paddon. This will probably be seen as splitting the community but i learned that we can create new custom chat channels like f2ptwink

Create a new custom chat channel in the Chat menu settings

Change the chat channel name to the new channel on the F2paddon help in the interface/addons menu

And /reload

Ive tested and it actually worked,however im not sure if the password thing when you create a new chat channel works.
 
Activate said:
When I first joined AP H and the "old" crew was still around, they lead by example. We need a rallying point. Preferably a person or group of persons who new members can look to for example rather than tightening the screws and wasting resources.
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I'm not against new players, we help people on BWL a lot and that's great. I think people want to compete at different levels. And peoples ages vary, although admittedly the majority is probably around 16-20. You are going to have a hard time getting all those people to work well together.

Guilds don't take in world rankers and newbies, it just doesn't work. Both parties want different things. It doesn't necessarily have to do with someone's unwillingness to help others.
 
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Incidentally y'all, if you wanted to play around with TI's Groups feature, it's under Community at the top of your window.

Or, if you want to preview what a Group can do, I've made one to mess around with that you can join and post in.

http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/groups/kincaide-just-messin-stuff.html

Looks like it could serve for private or semi-private organization of events, etc. Have a look-play if you want.
 
Activate said:
It is so obviously apparent that TI is not a suitable venue for reorganizing US events. Just look at the sort of dickering responses in this thread. People want to weigh in when they have nothing at all meaningful to contribute. The effort is diluted and squandered by people who want something to happen but are either to ill-equipped or afraid of the spotlight to actually do anything. I won't even exclude myself from that group. I don't know who I'm talking to or if you exist at all. If you are out there, I can help.

If there is not some singular person who can be the answer to our prayers maybe we can come together as a collective to fill that same role. It doesn't have to be a big time sink.
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You're not exactly wrong, TI has grown to a point where it is unruly and full of unknown people. I used to know every single poster on these forums and now I hardly recognize anyone. To be fair though I have long since left the bracket for greener pastures.

It's hard to stay interested in a bracket that has only gone downhill since its inception. When I first started playing on AP, it was rare to see a 24 in a game; at this point in time it would be unreal not to see a 24/29. My favorite spec has exploded in popularity since the boost to its power to a point where there are so many that there is no way I can even set myself apart from the mindless horde of players.

That being said, while at this point in time I don't really have an interest in playing the bracket I will always support f2p twinking, whether that be through helping pay for a new server for a tight knit f2p "guild", showing my face around AP, or contributing with invaluable guides. c: Unfortunately I no longer have the time to dedicate to leading anything, but you can count me in as support for whatever you have planned!
 
Yasueh said:
If you want to build a good solid community, you have to be exclusive [...] Trouble is, there's no way to do this in the chat channel. Moderation is flaky because of the way the server assigns channel owner. Absolutely anyone can join, and even if they get banned whoever randomly gets mod can unban them, or the banlist gets wiped every server restart.

The solution? Make f2pchat the street, and have something else become the store [...] Of course we can't do this in game, because the tools for it aren't available there
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I know I've said this before, and I know that what I'm suggesting would require a major rewrite of the addon which I have no grounds to suggest, and I know that I'm not a programmer and probably don't understand just what would be involved in what I'm suggesting, but...

If there were a chat addon that did not rely on the in-game chat window UI for display of messages, but instead the addon used some crazy invisible custom channel strictly for the purpose of sending encoded messages from addon to addon which the addon then parsed into displaying as messages to appropriate subscribers, then this could work. The rules about joining an actual game chat channel, and all its pitfalls of resetting and changing owners, etc, would be bypassed.
 
Yasueh said:
I've already got a webserver which is paid for for a few months.... I keep asking myself if I really want to go to all that trouble....
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I know it goes against F2P philosophy, but having some kind of financial barrier to inclusion might be a way to keep the 'Barrens chat' mentality out. It may not have to be much; a small contribution towards costs, or maybe some kind of joining fee or good behaviour bond?
 
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