We could do more

[Activate]

Guys this is not a software problem. The infrastructure we need is all in place. We have the addon thanks to Yasueh, we have forums for general topics and announcements, we have mumble, we have subscribers.

The sooner you realize noobs are the solution and NOT the problem the sooner you'll have your cake and eat it too.

 

[yasueh]

If there were a chat addon that did not rely on the in-game chat window UI for display of messages, but instead the addon used some crazy invisible custom channel strictly for the purpose of sending encoded messages from addon to addon which the addon then parsed into displaying as messages to appropriate subscribers, then this could work. The rules about joining an actual game chat channel, and all its pitfalls of resetting and changing owners, etc, would be bypassed.

The addon is already using an invisible channel, and not using the game's chat UI.

• You log into the channel only to add your name, and get a list of other subscribers from the server, which you then add to your friends list so they can send whispers to you.
• You type in the game's edit box, because it's already there, and saves making a new one, but when you hit enter what you type is picked up by the addon instead of going to the game's chat system.
• The addon sends an addon-to-addon whisper containing what you typed to everyone on your friends list.
• If they've got you added as a friend, then their addon recieves this, and prints it out on the screen in a way that looks like normal chat, but didn't use it at all.

Sure, with this new addon channel support we might (I still haven't tested this with an f2p sending to a p2p who didn't already have them as a friend) have a way for people to join and communicate without having everyone add them as friend first, so we can skip the 1st part, and simplify the 3rd, but we've still got the problem of storing and managing a list of who we want to be 'subscribed'.

That list on the server is the best we've got, and we can't do any better. Without using a client-server system there's nowhere else to store lists of subscribers and people who should be kept out. You can't switch to peer-to-peer, and keep copies of the subscriber/ban lists on all of the clients, because then you'd have to make sure everyone's copy of the data was kept up to date, and more importantly, no-one was messing around with it while it's getting shared between everyone.

Doing that would require an ungodly amount of code dedicated to encrypting data with public/private key pairs specific to every single user of the channel, and maintaining those keys for everyone, so only certain parties have access to to the subscriber/ban list. The amount of data being stored in the addon's saved settings would skyrocket (and the game limits how much data an addon can store on a player's computer), along with the amount of data, rather than chat, being sent through the channel (and the game also limits how many messages you can send, and how big they can be).

 

[Manny]

I always wanted to make a character on ap, a Mage or a shaman. Yet, to me the set back was not the "new" ap community that was formed, it was more an issue of crowdedness.

I have always liked my alone time on wow, no one talks and I can just queue, do some herbing, and bg.

I am willing to play on ap for this purpose, personally I'm not so great at arenas but they are sure fun.
I wish I could take a responsible role, but I'm not too known by the people there nor do I have the time.

This is definitely something that's easy to achieve, just needs cooperation. I think that if we want this to work best we have to rebuild the ap ally side, can't all be about the horde.

 

[Pooh]

I always wanted to make a character on ap, a Mage or a shaman. Yet, to me the set back was not the "new" ap community that was formed, it was more an issue of crowdedness.

I have always liked my alone time on wow, no one talks and I can just queue, do some herbing, and bg.

I am willing to play on ap for this purpose, personally I'm not so great at arenas but they are sure fun.
I wish I could take a responsible role, but I'm not too known by the people there nor do I have the time.

This is definitely something that's easy to achieve, just needs cooperation. I think that if we want this to work best we have to rebuild the ap ally side, can't all be about the horde.

All you got to do make an image for yourself didn't take me long in horde, i too want to make an AP alliance, only thing holding me back is lvling, seeing how aggressive alliance (in general) gets in bgs over the simplest things, long bg ques, and imo the alliance races look too similar to each other (with the exception of panda, draenei, and worgen)

I do plan to play some more alliance if we get the hierloom tab, make lvling faster and easier.

 

[Kincaide]

The addon is already using an invisible channel, and not using the game's chat UI.

• You log into the channel only to add your name, and get a list of other subscribers from the server, which you then add to your friends list so they can send whispers to you.
• You type in the game's edit box, because it's already there, and saves making a new one, but when you hit enter what you type is picked up by the addon instead of going to the game's chat system.
• The addon sends an addon-to-addon whisper containing what you typed to everyone on your friends list.
• If they've got you added as a friend, then their addon recieves this, and prints it out on the screen in a way that looks like normal chat, but didn't use it at all.

Sure, with this new addon channel support we might (I still haven't tested this with an f2p sending to a p2p who didn't already have them as a friend) have a way for people to join and communicate without having everyone add them as friend first, so we can skip the 1st part, and simplify the 3rd, but we've still got the problem of storing and managing a list of who we want to be 'subscribed'.

That list on the server is the best we've got, and we can't do any better. Without using a client-server system there's nowhere else to store lists of subscribers and people who should be kept out. You can't switch to peer-to-peer, and keep copies of the subscriber/ban lists on all of the clients, because then you'd have to make sure everyone's copy of the data was kept up to date, and more importantly, no-one was messing around with it while it's getting shared between everyone.

Doing that would require an ungodly amount of code dedicated to encrypting data with public/private key pairs specific to every single user of the channel, and maintaining those keys for everyone, so only certain parties have access to to the subscriber/ban list. The amount of data being stored in the addon's saved settings would skyrocket (and the game limits how much data an addon can store on a player's computer), along with the amount of data, rather than chat, being sent through the channel (and the game also limits how many messages you can send, and how big they can be).

This is so cool to read, It's amazing what you've done with the addon! Thanks for the explanation, Yasueh! Everything you said makes perfect sense, and I guess it goes back to what Activate said: We have all the infrastructure we need, we should just push forward with our goals.

 

[Robert the Druid]

Count me in, just get ahold of me and tell me when to get on.

 

[Neon]

It's time to step up Activate you have waited you fair share of time for this.

 

[Androlleck]

OK first off Lankypuss your my boy! its been too long and we need to duel like the old days!

Secondly ive single handedly shown that 10v10s are possible in this bracket and all it takes is commitment from 20 ppl... thats it i figured out the que system and sure enough myself my team and the help of swagcleavic and his team we put up 2 premade 10v10s wasnt hard took time but we were only 20 ppl,,, if what u say is true and wargames are possible wouldn't that mean premades when ever we want?

Long live The Goon Squad.

 

[Allybeboba]

BG queues will eventually shorten once the newness of the expansion wears off. It is like this each and every release of a new xpack.
Patience padawans, patience....
"The key to everything is patience. You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it."

 

[Lanky]

Hey long time no see, would love to see you back in the f2p bracket and initializing some more 10v10s. It's so simple to set up however we lack leadership and people to organize everything. Would love to see you back!

 

[Neon]

BG queues will eventually shorten once the newness of the expansion wears off. It is like this each and every release of a new xpack.
Patience padawans, patience....
"The key to everything is patience. You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it."

Its only like this because of the new q system prioritizing making games pop instead of adding players into existing games when ppl afk, and also cuz of added bgs take away alot of the player base, it was not like this in mop i was there

 

[Zehj]

"The key to everything is patience. You get the chicken by hatching the egg, not by smashing it."

but you've gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette

 

[Gulbon]

I haven't played a lot of WoD or browsed TI often, what the hell is happening? This sounds huge. Can someone fill me in?

 

[Goesid]

I haven't played a lot of WoD or browsed TI often, what the hell is happening? This sounds huge. Can someone fill me in?

We can do wargames now. On EU we have tried it a few times but there seem to be some bugs but US haven't tried anything so they made this thread.

 

[Allybeboba]

it was not like this in mop i was there

What you state is only partially true. There are many contributing factors. The least of which is a large part of the player base is off doing something else besides twinking. ie: preparing their endgame toons for the expansion.
Feel free to look back in the TI archives two years ago and I am sure you will find many QQ threads about queue getting long then as well. And then go back four years, six etc...

On topic, I hope Wargames do become a successful but I do not see that happening. Despite the largest part of the community stating they want "competitive" games. And they want a more healthier bracket. They truly do not. If they did, there would be less FotM rerollers, less DPSers and more healers. They are here for número uno and to have fun. Which is not to say there is anything wrong with having fun. But the largest portion of this bracket just really live to one shot or "pwn" another. If competitive games were what people wanted there would be zero farming. Because we all know that farming is really competitive.
/cheers

Sweetsidney

 

[Sponsor]

The problem is that many of the big Aerie Peak players either quit or moved off to another realm since they were hipsters that wanted to escape the Aerie Peak stigma.

After the failure of the trial communities on Korgath, Vashjir, Sentinels, Ursin and Moon Guard, the overall trial community is far too spread out as it used to be back in 2012 (AKA the Aerie Peak golden days). Im not saying that players from those realms are bad, its just that the community is lacking compared to what we have on Aerie Peak. You might get 4-5 people on at the same time on good days, leaving you completely isolated from all the fun.

The reason why I still think BWL is still a good pop realm is because they have active and a very talented community that both frighten me in the gulch and still provide deadly premades.

If we would be living in a utopian world, all new trials would be created on Aerie Peaks, so we could live happily ever after once again.

TBH, I really despise the twinks who merged off AP just because they didnt want to be "mainstream" since Mama told them that they're unique like a snowflake.

What was so wrong about AP that your new realm doesnt have?

 

[Androlleck]

i agree sponsor.. AP ended up being the Hollow of f2ps if you will. lots of twanks and activity

 

[Revlo]

I might be able to play in some wargames when the moon is right. It seems migrating to one particular server would make things a lot easier, maybe Aerie Peak for several reasons. The only hold up I can see is getting people with limited time, like myself, to do the gear grind again. If we do at some point get the BoA tab and can use it as we are hoping, that would be prime time to start shifting servers. Before then though I would imagine a number of people won't want to do it. I wonder if simply setting some ground rules for wargames' gear might work. Maybe say no BoAs, AGM, LFH, eyepatch, etc, at least for now. As the ball gets rolling, then maybe start allowing those pieces. Though in the end the whole idea still might be more appealing if AGM, LFH, and eyepatch were not allowed, even after the BoA tab is going (if it does). The downside to this might be that some classes really need the stamina or other stats from that said gear to be effective. Someone who understands the meta more than me might have more input on that. I dunno, it just seems making the server shift as painless as possible might be a good way to go.

Cheers to you for getting the chat going on this Lanky. Now get back to Ursin where you belong!

 

[Neon]

What you state is only partially true. There are many contributing factors. The least of which is a large part of the player base is off doing something else besides twinking. ie: preparing their endgame toons for the expansion.
Feel free to look back in the TI archives two years ago and I am sure you will find many QQ threads about queue getting long then as well. And then go back four years, six etc...

On topic, I hope Wargames do become a successful but I do not see that happening. Despite the largest part of the community stating they want "competitive" games. And they want a more healthier bracket. They truly do not. If they did, there would be less FotM rerollers, less DPSers and more healers. They are here for número uno and to have fun. Which is not to say there is anything wrong with having fun. But the largest portion of this bracket just really live to one shot or "pwn" another. If competitive games were what people wanted there would be zero farming. Because we all know that farming is really competitive.
/cheers

Sweetsidney

The first day of MoP, there were 5 minute q times at max, 6 years ago was the 19s bracket of course the qs were going to slow down back then.

 

[Allybeboba]

The first day of MoP, there were 5 minute q times at max, 6 years ago was the 19s bracket of course the qs were going to slow down back then.

Not quite sure where you are getting your 5 min queue time facts from, but we had longer than five min queue times in the MIDDLE of Mists. Much less during the transition period.