Warlords of Draenor Changes for F2P
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Brov
Legend
hunters were op in wotlk too if it makes you feel any better
Phrontistery
i was making waves u was surfing in 'em
My Resto shaman in proper gear heals for 330s, I can't put out 1k heals in 1.5 seconds ... [MENTION=10922]Buckeye[/MENTION] I want to see your Shamans gear 
inoobupro
Banned
lol dude? I despise hunters just as much as the next guy, if not more
and whoever is bullshitting about f2p hunters not being able to do 1500 damage in like 2-3 GCDs....please stop we get it hunts are very underpowered
at this moment, you literally have to be a hunter or a druid(that can escape the retarded conc shot) to enjoy this bracket
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Bop
Remember the Treeline
To you, maybe. Not sure if you played in 5.0-5.1 but the 10-15 healers per bg was incredibly stupid and having 8/10 bgs end in 0-0 10 debuff tie was one of the most boring phases I've ever played in this bracket. Also dont even try the "well if you want to kill healers learn to cc" bs cuz you know I know better and if it goes back to how it was before with the 300-400 rejuv ticks and 1k instant heals will be godmode no matter of skill.
Also if you wanna try the "well why should I play heals if I get bursted down in one gcd no matter what I do" then I will pull the "well why should I play dps when no matter what I do I can't kill anything". I agree both are stupid scenarios but with this game it's normally one severity or another and if I had to chose I would chose the former because atleast that way the bgs will have some kind of pace and won't be as fun as fishing while waiting in ally q's.
Go ahead and try and make a counter... I'm waiting
Hmm, not to completely sidestep your argument, but I think you're misinterpreting my points.
I'm not trying to draw a positive impact out of having overpowered healers. The net effect of anything being overpowered will always be negative compared to a balanced bracket.
So now, my main point - compared to the bracket now, healers being overpowered would be preferential. The translation of skill into gameplay is very poor in a bracket where damage dealers are so heavy handed. In fact, not only is damage relative to healing extremely steep, but the majority-of-the-damage pie graph is almost entirely consumed by a handful of the plethora of class/spec combinations at 20. The always professional 24's would also be much less dangerous if healing was as strong as it was at the start of Mists of Pandaria. Another of the pros of having stronger healers is that you are able to balance out some of the overwhelming pressure that comes from having 24's in our bracket.
With overpowered healing, aspects of play that are minimal in a DPS bracket are all of a sudden emphasized. CCing a healer only quickens the already downward spiral that occurs when even one of the god-tier DPS happen to focus them (Hunter/Rogue/Arms). CC, therefore, is much less valuable than in a bracket where damage dealers are phenomenally stronger than healers in relation to the balanced bracket.
As it happens, I did play in 5.0 and 5.1 when healers were overpowered. I do remember the turtle fests around flags in each base. I also remember the coordination required to deftly and entirely shatter their turtle with only a few people so as to return the flag for the winning capture. I remember the positive and the negatives.
Then I look at the state of the bracket now. I struggle to find a positive. Beating players who have a vast advantage over myself would appear to be one - but that doesn't exactly speak highly of 5.4, now does it?
So I ask again, what are the positives of an extremely imbalanced DPS bracket. Bueller? Bueller?
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Chykcha
Legend
Do I have to take it from elem? Hah.
As for Buckeye, inoobpro. You guys are funny, live in a world with big numbers, especially love 2k in under 1.5 sec.
As for the thread. It's really kind of hard to dispute over healers from BG pov, I prefer 1v1 pov. Balanced DPS/Healer for me means that DPS can
1) kill healer with good crits (healer counter is to have big healing crits)
2) kill healer with good placed CC (healer counter is to fakecast them)
3) kill healer by driving him OOM (healer counter is to bring DPS down meantime, since making healer OOM will take huge amount of time and he can place a few shocks/moonfires/etc.).
At the moment from pure glasscannon hunter pov f2p palas are just the way I want healers to be, maybe a little damage decrease on denounce (but make 40y), others are generally much more squishy.
madhombre
Legend
they(low lvl huntards) were op in classic, tbc, wotlk, cata, mop and will be op in wod(yes, even with less cc)..its always nice to see f2p huntards who cry about p2ps because you know.. the only difference between a p2p and a f2p huntard is the fact that p2ps PAY to faceroll and kill everything. f2p huntards are poor kids who wanna rape other f2ps without paying for it.
Rollop
Legend
The assumption here is that players "right now" don't understand basic WoW pvp. Which i don't believe is true, even with my "limited" experience. Were not dealing with hard to grasp concepts here. To pretend you're doing something amazing is, well, amazing really. Even more so since this is not "the" balanced bracket, where everything is completely fair (which it isnt really the case do to racials and a number of other perceptions) If you can explain to me how not being able to kill anybody at all for 20 mins vs killing people and actually finishing games without a stalemate teaches people tactics, please enlighten me. After that, tell me how you line up 5+ CC's on 5 different targets for that game winning play, premade or pug. Never happened, probably won't ever happen.
Heres what's going to happen. Almost everybody will roll a healer again, because they cant kill anything. And if you cant kill anything you're going to heal everything. (Again) But lets pretend this didnt happen already. Right?
Allybeboba
Legend
Bop, I am sure most of that was above and beyond the heads of the people that choose to peruse this forum. Least of which is Bueller...Bueller...
Nonetheless, I found it an informative and enthralling read. Thank you for your insight and low level player versus player acumen.
Sweetsidney ...
Goesid
Twink Info Legend
Not if role system is fixed.
Again, here you are with your negative attitude towards people.
Snowjobs
Fluffy
Assuming zerker
Balance Druid (sp glass cannon w/ 1.2k hp in bg ). 1.4k starsurge 1.1k starfire hitting in a gcd
feral Druid on clothie or leather user easily will hit a around 2 k crit on a person if they aren't absolutely destroyed by 400 shreds x5
Sub rogue- 1.6k ambush 1k evis with 5 cp
combat - 2.2k evis from stealth assuming revealing and 5cp
assas- 1.4k ambush followed by 600 mute and a poison proc or two
ele shaman 500 lb 1.1k fulm 400 earth shock
arms warrior (str stacking)- 900ms 1.1k slam easily
arcane Mage - Lols 1k, 1.2k shatter combo assuming belf and buffed.
Destro warlock - 500 incinerate x2 immolate tick for 200 two succky crits for 340 two conclag for 600
BM hunter using cat with stealth . 1k kc. 200 serpent tick. 250 pet basic crit . 400 arcane shot. Pet auto attack crit for 150. Auto shot crit for 200
Marks hunter -1.3k aim shot with rest of the stuff
survival hunter 2explosive ticks 250 2 arcane shots 400 a serpent tick 200 auto shot 200and pet burst 450 total
now this is all including zerker glass cannon and that everything crits and hit's in the span of a global cool down.
now let's look at healers burst in span of gcd
shaman, 760 hs crit 200 riptide crit.
paladin 760 flash heal 600 holy shock
druid 650 regrowth 750 swift mend 240 rejuve tick
preist . 750 flash heal with 500 shield .
all healers are max int and don't have mortal strikes on their target
seems about even there doesn't it
now none of those dps classes can keep up that damage but the fact that none of the healers can out heal burst the dps burst if all dps burst at the same time with no cc at all there will be a net dps against the healers most likely resulting in multiple deaths.
Balance Druid (sp glass cannon w/ 1.2k hp in bg ). 1.4k starsurge 1.1k starfire hitting in a gcd
feral Druid on clothie or leather user easily will hit a around 2 k crit on a person if they aren't absolutely destroyed by 400 shreds x5
Sub rogue- 1.6k ambush 1k evis with 5 cp
combat - 2.2k evis from stealth assuming revealing and 5cp
assas- 1.4k ambush followed by 600 mute and a poison proc or two
ele shaman 500 lb 1.1k fulm 400 earth shock
arms warrior (str stacking)- 900ms 1.1k slam easily
arcane Mage - Lols 1k, 1.2k shatter combo assuming belf and buffed.
Destro warlock - 500 incinerate x2 immolate tick for 200 two succky crits for 340 two conclag for 600
BM hunter using cat with stealth . 1k kc. 200 serpent tick. 250 pet basic crit . 400 arcane shot. Pet auto attack crit for 150. Auto shot crit for 200
Marks hunter -1.3k aim shot with rest of the stuff
survival hunter 2explosive ticks 250 2 arcane shots 400 a serpent tick 200 auto shot 200and pet burst 450 total
now this is all including zerker glass cannon and that everything crits and hit's in the span of a global cool down.
now let's look at healers burst in span of gcd
shaman, 760 hs crit 200 riptide crit.
paladin 760 flash heal 600 holy shock
druid 650 regrowth 750 swift mend 240 rejuve tick
preist . 750 flash heal with 500 shield .
all healers are max int and don't have mortal strikes on their target
seems about even there doesn't it
now none of those dps classes can keep up that damage but the fact that none of the healers can out heal burst the dps burst if all dps burst at the same time with no cc at all there will be a net dps against the healers most likely resulting in multiple deaths.
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Allybeboba
Legend
No negativity, just facts, as the majority of the players in this particular forum were merely sparkles in their papa's eyes when Ben Stein uttered those now famous words. Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
Do not forget tomorrow is Memorial Day, honor our fallen solders.
Sweetsidney...
Bop
Remember the Treeline
I specifically wrote what I said so that it couldn't logically be mirrored, and I really don't think it was.
Back when healers were overpowered, all of them were able to top the heal charts with ease.
Healing leads to skill translation because it allows the players on your team the time to prove that they are better than the players on the other team. The better players are the ones who make the small differences necessary to cap the flag. Capping the flag, contrary to our bracket's belief system, is not something that was ever intended to be easy. Even a brief study of endgame RBG theory shows us that turtling with a flag is integral to competitive Warsong Gulches.
24's conquer at the moment not because their healers are overpowered, but because their damage dealers are able to melt face with literally zero counter action from the enemy team. That is not only overpowered, but that is unacceptable. We are playing with 90's in our bracket. A level 90 enchanter, a level 90 blacksmith, a level 90 tailorer, a level 90 guild leader - nonetheless, they are there. And true, this is non-unique. In a healing bracket, there would be the same level 90's crafting the gear that carries the same 24's. But the difference is that we're able to respond in meaningful ways. We're able to play our classes and have a chance to hold the flag as the game was intended.
We do not have that opportunity in the current bracket. We are at the mercy of the geared 24.
Part of this comes down to the differences in which classes we play, I recognize that. But it also comes down to the people we choose to play with. I've noticed that more and more, I'm seeing you playing with others. Obviously I don't believe there to be anything wrong with that. It is, after all, a natural reaction to playing in an overpowered bracket. The same phenomenon should occur in an overpowered healing bracket.
I remember in 5.0 - it took quite a bit of pressure to forcibly kill a chain of healers - but it could be done. Mages had poly, Warlocks had fear, Warriors had rage dumps with mortal strike. Kick, counterspell, enfeeblement.
That is skill. And it could be done. Even in the most overpowered version of this game, healers could be killed with coordination. But now there is no skill in our bracket. It's melt face or have your face melted. My role turns more and more into a supplemental here-you-can-win-this-duel healer. That was not how this game was intended to play. Healing heavy isn't intended either, but it is much closer to being so.
As I've already said, a balanced bracket should always be preferential to an imbalanced one. But one end of the spectrum leads to indisputably more meta-theory games.
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inoobupro
Banned
rofl, most healers can only cast one move on a gcd
have you ever played anything except a hunter druid or a rogue?
a f2p hunter can cast the following damage abilities in 1 GCD
explosive shot/auto shot/pet claw/ pet stun all macrod in. So he only got one wrong-serpent sting ...and sting usually gets applied before the explosive shot
and a reply to bops post-no 5.0 fucking sucked druids doing 1200 regrowth and 400-450 rejuv in 1 press of a button
have you ever played anything except a hunter druid or a rogue?
a f2p hunter can cast the following damage abilities in 1 GCD
explosive shot/auto shot/pet claw/ pet stun all macrod in. So he only got one wrong-serpent sting ...and sting usually gets applied before the explosive shot
and a reply to bops post-no 5.0 fucking sucked druids doing 1200 regrowth and 400-450 rejuv in 1 press of a button
Goesid
Twink Info Legend
Allybeboba
Legend
Bop, I am going to quote myself from another thread in another section. It would probably best serve that you move on, you will never "win". You can't debate versus a wall.
My quotes as follows..
"Debating with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
Have a happy and Safe Memorial Day.
Sweetsidney...
My quotes as follows..
"Debating with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
Have a happy and Safe Memorial Day.
Sweetsidney...