Warlords of Draenor Changes for F2P

I'm try to make this simple. Long posts on apparently controversial subjects don't generally work well.

Using abilities to stop healers is more skill oriented than using abilities to survive.

Do not confuse this statement with any form of impact ("Staying alive isn't a form of skill"). I am not making that statement. Only that the skill ceiling involved with survivability as it is now is much lower than a skill ceiling that involves stopping healers.

There are many shades on the "OP" rainbow.

Overpowered can mean an obviously large number of things. In a balanced bracket, Healers in a battleground should require forward thinking to remove. Generally, this means that the best option should be to CC them / oom them so that their team dies. Having big spells that burst healers who position well isn't balanced. Yet that is the current state of the bracket.

Comparison: between the two spectrums, overpowered healing will lead to better games than overpowered damage dealers.

Obviously balance is better than either of those two scenarios. Do not make the mistake of thinking that I am pondering the state of the bracket with overpowered healing as being a positive one. I don't want that to be the case. However, comparatively, we would be better off with healers taking coordination to stop rather than hunters steamrolling an entire team by themselves.
 
Rollop said:
I'd rather be able to kill somebody than play wack-a-mole for 20 minutes. But hey, BIG numbers on that scoreboard for sure.
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You will be able to kill somebody. But it will take a little more effort than Explosive Shot > Arcane Shot > target has died...

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Bop said:
I'm try to make this simple. Long posts on apparently controversial subjects don't generally work well.

Using abilities to stop healers is more skill oriented than using abilities to survive.

Do not confuse this statement with any form of impact ("Staying alive isn't a form of skill"). I am not making that statement. Only that the skill ceiling involved with survivability as it is now is much lower than a skill ceiling that involves stopping healers.

There are many shades on the "OP" rainbow.

Overpowered can mean an obviously large number of things. In a balanced bracket, Healers in a battleground should require forward thinking to remove. Generally, this means that the best option should be to CC them / oom them so that their team dies. Having big spells that burst healers who position well isn't balanced. Yet that is the current state of the bracket.

Comparison: between the two spectrums, overpowered healing will lead to better games than overpowered damage dealers.

Obviously balance is better than either of those two scenarios. Do not make the mistake of thinking that I am pondering the state of the bracket with overpowered healing as being a positive one. I don't want that to be the case. However, comparatively, we would be better off with healers taking coordination to stop rather than hunters steamrolling an entire team by themselves.
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Right, i can agree with that. I dont think that this brackets current amount of burst is fun. But we've already played through the opposite, when heals were overpowered. Sure, coordinating CC too bring down targets is great. Until half a teams roster are healers. Which is why battle fatigue was introduced in the first place. So were going to go ahead and do the past 4 patches, all over again, next expansion.


That aside, i based this on the assumption that were going to be hitting as hard as we currently are, which was wrong, with resil removed we'll hit 40% harder, so maybe it'll even out. I cant see trying to bring down a 6-7k hp bop, when said bop has 5 healers topping him off. Even more so when said healers are going to be sitting around 2.5k+ hp, at the very least.
 
Battle fatigue was introduced because healers were OP, yes. But healers are OP because they're also used to healing raids in which the boss is putting out several hundred thousand DPS.

The problem is exponential stat increases from tier to tier. Hopefully the stat squish will alleviate the problem.

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but if i can't wack off to extremely large healing numbers why would i play wow o.o ? seriously confused by that one
 
Snowjobs said:
but if i can't wack off to extremely large healing numbers why would i play wow o.o ? seriously confused by that one
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Thats a good question. And yet, you always see those players who do nothing but fuck off in mid, or a graveyard trying to rack up those numbers. And then turn around and brag about it. As if you couldnt do the same thing on a target dummy for 20 minutes. So these new changes will be perfect for those types of players, nobody will die, everybody will just sit in mid, watching our numbers increase on the scoreboard.
 
Buckeye said:
Battle fatigue was introduced because healers were OP, yes. But healers are OP because they're also used to healing raids in which the boss is putting out several hundred thousand DPS.
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... so, what your saying is that the reason why healers are op is bc they're ment for pve only?

Snowjobs said:
but if i can't wack off to extremely large healing numbers why would i play wow o.o ? seriously confused by that one
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same thing with healing, if I can't heal large amounts of dps why should I heal in wow?
 
Let them do their stupid mid fight. While they're distracted by those huge numbers, GRAB THE FLAG AND CAP IT.

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Daltert Moropi said:
... so, what your saying is that the reason why healers are op is bc they're ment for pve only?
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No. I'm saying that it's a fundamental flaw in game design when the raid bosses have hundreds of millions of hit points, and put out hundreds of thousands of DPS, and only four or five of the 25 are supposed to heal that damage.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Ghostcrawler's departure is being immediately followed by a huge stat squish. There needs to be some horizontal progression. Vertical only progression leads to ridiculous exponential numbers.

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Buckeye said:
No. I'm saying that it's a fundamental flaw in game design when the raid bosses have hundreds of millions of hit points, and put out hundreds of thousands of DPS, and only four or five of the 25 are supposed to heal that damage.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Ghostcrawer's departure is being immediately followed by a huge stat squish. There needs to be some horizontal progression. Vertical only progression leads to ridiculous exponential numbers.

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true, but i'm not going to sit and wait in ghost fourm while a bunch of zerging dps go from mid to gy while a druid runs back and forth grabing the flag 3 times.

Buckeye said:
Let them do their stupid mid fight. While they're distracted by those huge numbers, GRAB THE FLAG AND CAP IT.

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seeing that it looks like the healing class is going stationary in WoD, go for the flag mon.
 
must of had a different scenario then, I actually had the opposite encounter when WoD came out. a lot more dps and the healing classes were barely getting by with those tanks. if I recalled tanks had 1k to 2k mega crits, the caster classes we're dishing lots of dps, and there wasn't that many hunters compared to now.
 
Every healing class can put out a 1k heal in 1.5 seconds or less. I'm talking about RIGHT NOW in 5.4.3. The problem is that DPS can put out 2k+ damage in that same time frame.

Again, this is due to exponential stat increases from tier to tier.

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that's what happens when healers have 60% healing taken away and yes I do 1k healing but because of battle fatigue, I get about 200-400, 500 if i'm lucky.

you do realize we're talking about the ftp model not the ptp model? we don't have tier.
 
Daltert Moropi said:
must of had a different scenario then, I actually had the opposite encounter when WoD came out. a lot more dps and the healing classes were barely getting by with those tanks. if I recalled tanks had 1k to 2k mega crits, the caster classes we're dishing lots of dps, and there wasn't that many hunters compared to now.
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Prot warriors, on clothies. Sure. Hpals, maybe, spell hit was broken, casters werent hitting anything. And there has always been this many hunters. And there probably always will be this many, until blizzard decides to make another class "new player friendly".

What Lil said is basically what im driving at. I guess i would rather see a game end, even if its a bursty game, than more 0-0 games. You can bet players are going to roll fotm healers, just like they did at the start of the expac. And were probably going to end up right here again. Complaining about burst because blizzard -had- to nerf healing.
 
sigh, fine i'll give in to this argument. if they make warsong 15 min now im not going be around that then since it's going to be a one sided match based on 29s and the fotms.

peace out.
 
Lil said:
To you, maybe. Not sure if you played in 5.0-5.1 but the 10-15 healers per bg was incredibly stupid and having 8/10 bgs end in 0-0 10 debuff tie was one of the most boring phases I've ever played in this bracket. Also dont even try the "well if you want to kill healers learn to cc" bs cuz you know I know better and if it goes back to how it was before with the 300-400 rejuv ticks and 1k instant heals will be godmode no matter of skill.

Also if you wanna try the "well why should I play heals if I get bursted down in one gcd no matter what I do" then I will pull the "well why should I play dps when no matter what I do I can't kill anything". I agree both are stupid scenarios but with this game it's normally one severity or another and if I had to chose I would chose the former because atleast that way the bgs will have some kind of pace and won't be as fun as fishing while waiting in ally q's.

Go ahead and try and make a counter... I'm waiting :cool:
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Your wait shall end.
It is no more foolish than 10-15 rogues/hunters battlegrounds in the here and now. We have absolutely no idea what the stat squish will bring for heals come 6.0. We do not know if healing be doubled or if DPS will be hitting 40% harder. We won't have an idea until the beta. No reason for everyone to get their panties in a wad over something that has not even happened yet.
Happy Memorial weekend.

Sweetsydney ...
 
Allybeboba said:
Your wait shall end.
It is no more foolish than 10-15 rogues/hunters battlegrounds in the here and now. We have absolutely no idea what the stat squish will bring for heals come 6.0. We do not know if healing be doubled or if DPS will be hitting 40% harder. We won't have an idea until the beta. No reason for everyone to get their panties in a wad over something that has not even happened yet.
Happy Memorial weekend.

Sweetsydney ...
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I don't think anyone is mad, just debating which of the 2 evils makes for a more enjoyable bracket i suppose :)
 
Daltert Moropi said:
that's what happens when healers have 60% healing taken away and yes I do 1k healing but because of battle fatigue, I get about 200-400, 500 if i'm lucky.

you do realize we're talking about the ftp model not the ptp model? we don't have tier.
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Yes, I realize that. It's still the same game. Everything from end game trickles down to the lower brackets. Stat inflation is evident even in the f2p bracket. My original f2p hpal currently has 1800hp. She sure didn't have 1800hp in Cata...

Lil said:
strong exeggeration
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Nope. I have multiples of every healing class at 20. Non-crit Healing Surge, Flash of Light, Flash Heal and Regrowth all hit for around 1k out of combat. Crits are in the 1500-1800 range. In combat, those numbers get cut in half, but with 20% crit, 1k heals are certainly not rare. Try playing something other than your hunter.

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Lmao. Oh I see. You were disputing the DPS numbers, not the healing numbers. Well, in some mythical f2p bracket where enhancement shaman, arcane mages, fury warriors, and locks of all specs exist, you are correct, but in the REAL LIFE bracket in which 70% of the dps are hunters and rogues, my statement stands.

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