US Vet wargame attempt friday 26th
- Thread starter Neon
- Start date
Lateraldrop
Grandfathered
This for sure. FtP is allot of fun even if you just make a few characters for wargames. Doesnt take much effort to put a FTP together and it gives us more stuff to play. Everyone should have some FtP and some Vet chars imo.
Light
vet
also vet games are more fast paced compared to f2p's low damage
i believe if we just ban elemental force/ hidden stayr we could get some decent games going rather than make people get f2p sets
not to mention this also being a quick simple fix - new heirloom neck/weapon - throw it on
Also its way easier to identify if the enchant goes off with their big animations; just in case there are "sneaky people"
Chops
Soccer Dad
Yea, Im with this. F2P is awesome but the only reason to put together F2P sets would be some people personally preferring the slower pace of play. I feel like vet probably makes more sense in a competitive environment. But we wouldnt REALLY know till we got F2P wargames
Though Light, Im curious... why those two? I feel like if anything, banning crusader (obviously busted and intended to be nerfed) and like... incendiary ammo (just dumb) would be better. Is ele force that strong in a wargames situation?
Light
vet
Your right. The general rule would be - No weapon enchants No neck enchants(crusader, ele force, incediary, 14 spellpower) since they are all mostly the big ones
Light
vet
Idk neon I kinda disagree. You should get on so we can discuss this in btag.
In terms of just gear alone, the gap between vet and f2p isn't that big. With the epic/scaling patch, f2ps have access to things like https://www.wowhead.com/item=3011/feathered-headdress to stay on bar with vets helms. We could also ban engineering gear like the goggles? And make them use heirloom helm. Really it just depends on the individual f2p and how lazy they are to get farm good gear.
And when it comes down to enchants (the big factor) I don't wanna ask and confuse vets to make "f2p sets". As I mentioned above the neck and weapon enchants are a simple quick fix to the majority of issues.
I'm more concerned with simplicity in rules. No weapon/neck enchants. No engineering gear. etc. Rather than give a vague rule "Use f2p sets."
I mean this all being just for the purpose of letting f2p play. More variety of quantity/quality players and all the good stuff that can come from opening the window to all 20s etc. etc.
jwl
FC - Pagle
I read this this as a challenge, and I'll be sure to work on my FTP druid within the next few weeks.
I do think that if everyone had FTP sets, games could be a lot more interesting. Would open more doors for viability as far as comp go.
Light
vet
I mean the mentality i was approaching with-
This is still veteran wargames to avoid confusion. But with simple rules that IF a f2p wanted to come he wouldn't be intimidated or worried about being overpowered by vets.
A great example for the type of people i was targetting with this @Rapido
He came to play as pure f2p even with all the op vet enchants going on and performed phenomenally as an FC
BUT neon brought up a good point that had me doubt this idea
Vets want their op enchants. This was an incentive.
So conclusion - lets just leave everything the way it is I guess OR imo legit go and tackle each individual veteran that attended and ask them how they feel. Wether keeping their op enchants or getting rid of them will effect their incentive to play.
[doublepost=1556376636,1556376445][/doublepost]its not just about f2ps either
Games would be more interesting if we just got rid of neck/weapon enchants
would take more coordination to land kills etc. to make up for the lack of op damage
This is still veteran wargames to avoid confusion. But with simple rules that IF a f2p wanted to come he wouldn't be intimidated or worried about being overpowered by vets.
A great example for the type of people i was targetting with this @Rapido
He came to play as pure f2p even with all the op vet enchants going on and performed phenomenally as an FC
BUT neon brought up a good point that had me doubt this idea
Vets want their op enchants. This was an incentive.
So conclusion - lets just leave everything the way it is I guess OR imo legit go and tackle each individual veteran that attended and ask them how they feel. Wether keeping their op enchants or getting rid of them will effect their incentive to play.
[doublepost=1556376636,1556376445][/doublepost]its not just about f2ps either
Games would be more interesting if we just got rid of neck/weapon enchants
would take more coordination to land kills etc. to make up for the lack of op damage
jwl
FC - Pagle
I just feel like there are a great deal of FTPs that would love the opportunity to play in a more-competitive atmosphere.
It was extremely stressful to form last night - We apparently had 10/10 slots filled on both teams, yet it took over an hour to actually queue. Involving FTPs would help speed that process up, and outside of goggles+proc enchants, their stat sheets are very similiar.
Lets also blacklist Gaspedal-BleedingHollow from future events. He was being so extra last night, and there is nothing more annoying then a 15 year old Wizard101 player that constantly uses the N word.
It was extremely stressful to form last night - We apparently had 10/10 slots filled on both teams, yet it took over an hour to actually queue. Involving FTPs would help speed that process up, and outside of goggles+proc enchants, their stat sheets are very similiar.
Lets also blacklist Gaspedal-BleedingHollow from future events. He was being so extra last night, and there is nothing more annoying then a 15 year old Wizard101 player that constantly uses the N word.
Mythic Al
Boring Troll
I think it's kind of weird how we only get 1 week notice for these events.
F2P War Games were advertised first. With how little time there was for everyone to respond, it was quickly declared a failure. A new thread about that failure gained more traction than the thread about the actual event itself.
Few days later the Vet War Games were announced. Through the activity of the negative thread about the failed F2P War Games we got enough sign ups to make the Vet War Games happen.
All, I'm saying is: Try F2P War Games again, before dismissing it completely. Coordinate with other people to promote it in more than just one thread on XPOff (you can also motivate people to help make this happen again in the future by allowing them to be a part of the organization process). There are multiple B.net Communities, Discord Channels, and random people on our Friends Lists that may not visit XPOff in a span of 1 week. The promotion should be more aggressive.
Good luck with future War Gaming.
F2P War Games were advertised first. With how little time there was for everyone to respond, it was quickly declared a failure. A new thread about that failure gained more traction than the thread about the actual event itself.
Few days later the Vet War Games were announced. Through the activity of the negative thread about the failed F2P War Games we got enough sign ups to make the Vet War Games happen.
All, I'm saying is: Try F2P War Games again, before dismissing it completely. Coordinate with other people to promote it in more than just one thread on XPOff (you can also motivate people to help make this happen again in the future by allowing them to be a part of the organization process). There are multiple B.net Communities, Discord Channels, and random people on our Friends Lists that may not visit XPOff in a span of 1 week. The promotion should be more aggressive.
Good luck with future War Gaming.
tence
Legend
Honestly those game were an entire shitshow joke. The first game was decided when one of the horde members went into the alley disc and blasted loud music. Most of our team was alt tabbed trying to mute them and got picked off in mid. Other games were just just class stacking and stacking one side. Hur dur its competitive though guys.
I understand it's for fun but these were in no shape really competitive. If people legitimately want competitive games major changes need to be made.
I agree with the removal of wep enchants at the very least. Would slow things down. There also needs to be a cap of two of each class max. Get actual class diversity. Having one team that's like 4 druids or one that's 3 hunters or 3 discs is just stupid.
As someone whom wasn't really planning on playing in the first place, given what I saw why would I come back? I've had more competitive pugs than that. If you truly wanted competitive games, at least make an effort.
I'm sure this is gonna get flamed but theres actual potential for this to be what you want it to be. People that signed up just need to actually show up and more thought needs to be put into class compositions/teams otherwise this is going to fail.
I understand it's for fun but these were in no shape really competitive. If people legitimately want competitive games major changes need to be made.
I agree with the removal of wep enchants at the very least. Would slow things down. There also needs to be a cap of two of each class max. Get actual class diversity. Having one team that's like 4 druids or one that's 3 hunters or 3 discs is just stupid.
As someone whom wasn't really planning on playing in the first place, given what I saw why would I come back? I've had more competitive pugs than that. If you truly wanted competitive games, at least make an effort.
I'm sure this is gonna get flamed but theres actual potential for this to be what you want it to be. People that signed up just need to actually show up and more thought needs to be put into class compositions/teams otherwise this is going to fail.
OP
OP
Neon
666 god
Im going to dissect this and tell you why.
We should plan to get wargames once a week i don't see why a healthy bracket could not make it happen unless the majority of that genre did not want to play.
I agree with you that thread was bad publicity but i had to let everyone know it wasnt going to happen.
The vet wargame did not get setup soley because of negativity of the f2p one not getting set up that is nonsense, this was alot of work organising and putting this together.
Between you and me i would rather have pure f2p games than veteran games. Also anyone can step in and organise but people are lazy so nothing happened. I have f2p players on bnet but the number of vets to f2p ratio is 5:1.
I have never heard of these f2p bnet communitys either.
[doublepost=1556382655,1556382237][/doublepost]
I dont know who played the loud music in ally but that is fucking ridiculous im sorry that happened.
As for class diversity alot of people did not show up so i had to make do with what i had and i can guarantee you no pug in 20s is going to match the competitiveness of a wargame, maybe 19s pugs but not 20s.
LZ
Legend
Weapon enchants, imo, are important. Their removal would tilt the balance even further in the direction of healers.... And it's already pretty favorable for healers.
I agree with you about most of this. I believe some of that was the original intention but it all went to shit just so we could fill both sides.
Here's my quick brainstorming about rules:
- Two class/one spec prioritized heavily
- One crusader class per team - possibly one crusader weapon -
- Maybe just one of any DPS class per team- no two mages, no two hunters, etc - not sure if this is necessary
- Having a raid leader/shot caller signed up for/chosen ahead of time
- Minimum gear standards? No disrespect to anyone on ally, was very happy just to have the raid filled, but it definitely is noticeable when Blight was running around with 2400 HP and our team has people with heirloom helm - and there's not exactly a shortage of well geared twinks in this bracket
If we have to fill we have to fill, and if it comes to that maybe both groups can find something fair between them; at the end of the day it's for fun. But it's more fun when it's actually competitive.
also @Neon I'm happy to help coordinate stuff or recruit or anything... I like having these events and participating in them, and I meet a lot of random people around the bracket.
and, yeah, I'm actually with Tence, I have had more competitive pugs. Not always, not super often- so this was still refreshing and fun... but point taken, imo.
OP
OP
Neon
666 god
I think i am done trying to setup games i cannot please everyone and these were a struggle to fill even with class stacking do you understand how hard it would be to fill and coordinate everyone who signed up to log in at the right time? I can't be them i can't physically log in to their characters. If someone else wants to lead go ahead ill probably even sign up but this is alot of work and is tiring to take all the blame of something going wrong. Will probably sub and play 19s or play endgame or runescape or something.
jwl
FC - Pagle
Well, this was all extremely short notice for everyone. Over the course of 6 days, we had to discover those who were interested in playing wargames, then compensate for their absence on game-day. People hardly ever show up, that's a given & we had to play with the cards dealt.
Both teams only had 2 druids. 1 being a balance, and the other being a designated restoration flag carrier.
The final game where we had 3 disc priest wasnt intentional either. Our mistweaver left and in order to make teams even, we had to take in a benched discipline priest...It was either that, or nobody plays.
This is week #1, of course rosters wont be perfect, and nobody intentionally class stacked. We just scraped together what we had in order to make an effort towards a few games. Hopefully as time carries on, our inventory of twinks will grow and it'll result in more balanced games, and quicker forming of games.
Might I add, as a returning player of FTP/Veteran twinking, I have nothing great to say about the community: Just a bunch of toxic, know-it-all's who aren't as informed as they believe they are. Pretty sad when this is coming from a renowned troll, too.
Anyways, I'd like to see more games occur. Whether that be strictly vet, or ftp/vet. All we can do is come together & make an effort to get the ball rolling. No reason 1-2 people should be stressing themselves out trying to please everyone, while everybody else sits idly by complaining. Encourage your friends to join the in-game wargame communities, gather everyone's battletag, join the discord...just make an effort to come together and improve the bracket(s) you play. Being toxic and/or crying wont do anything but set us back.