The Future of Twinkinfo

[Hamcake]

Can there be much of a question with next years twink cup in mind and Myrm as the owner of TI? Upcoming WoW eSports Events - July 2015 - Forums - World of Warcraft. It seems to me that blizzard has proven receptive to our community under the appropriate circumstances. I understand peoples hesitation but the best way to get blizzards attention is to get active on Twitter, beyond a doubt. If TI isn't in line with the WoW CoC we never even have the chance at any official recognition.

Do you feel that the private server section put the twink cup in jeopardy? The community already has recognition, you've linked to it in your post. Or is it only good enough if it links to TI?

 

[Conq]

Do you feel that the private server section put the twink cup in jeopardy? The community already has recognition, you've linked to it in your post. Or is it only good enough if it links to TI?

This isn't about just the Twink Cup, that was an example, its not a question of what will be enough, more so of what is and isn't okay with Blizzard. I feel bad Hamcake because I respect your achievements so much as they were pivotal in keeping twinking alive during many shady times in our history, it has been my hope (and still is) that you apply your leadership abilities to retail twinking, on a personal level I have grown to feel that twinking has evolved and that the current 19s retail bracket is the gold standard of twinking.

 

[Selaya]

See this:

Of course I have, what do you think I have been criticizing this whole time? I fully understand your intent as laid out in these threads and who could possibly be against that? I'm saying it's totally misguided. Twinkinfo does not bring people to twinking; it's the other way around. Any twink-related exposure on blizzard's platforms is indirectly exposure to twinkinfo because this is already the hub. Any context in which TI would get a link from blizzard is going to be significant enough to generate interest in those who are so inclined. What is your hope, that someone will see something like the twink cup, think "that doesn't look like my cup of tea", follow the link to TI for some reason and suddenly change their mind for some even more bizarre reason? Twinkinfo and any specialist community does not generate interest, it accommodates interest. Why does it matter to you the route someone takes here so long as they come here at all? The more cynical side of me thinks it's to give yourselves personally a sense of accomplishment and that's unfortunate but it's a response to the only insight you've given so far. Either way it is not a justification for squashing discussion of a community interest. My last server had a little over 13,000 accounts; just because none of the admin team had any interest in private servers does not mean the interest is not there.



So the fact that private server discussion had been a part of Twinkinfo for roughly the last 6 years was accidental? I don't understand. I'm also indifferent on the matter of account sales, so I'm not really advocating for that.

What /tangible/ gains are we expecting from this change? Can you provide a few examples of those (hint: A Twink Cup link to TI in lieu of bisnation doesn`t really make the cut)?
Something like that

Assuming the site is acknowledged by Blizzard thanks to a more streamlined ruleset, it could be easier to facilitate change on behalf of twinks. In the past, interaction with the developers has proven tedious in the form of long Twitter campaigns and unanswered posts on the official WoW forums, but if the site was to gain some traction within Blizzard, we might be able to better communicate our thoughts to them. If this is doable by sacrificing a few "underground" aspects of the site, although it will suck for the people affected, it might, in the end, prove to be a good move for the majority, and definitely worth investigating.

would be a good one, tho I kinda doubt that any Blizzard dev will deem it worth their time to post here, but the idea counts.

 

[Conq]

Selaya Youbeezy has an open line of communication with the head of blizzard E-sports, if the e-sports thread isn't validation of potential, than this is. If anyone wants to actually have an impact the easiest and one of the best things you can do is use twitter actively in your twinking experience. Re-tweeting puts important information right in front of the right peoples eyes, it is so easy to have such a huge impact, people should use the tools at their disposal. Anyone who hasn't seen the positive benefits that networking has had for our community simply isn't looking hard enough.

 

[Selaya]

Yes, so?
You haven`t replied to my question. What difference, if any, would a link to TI in lieu of bisnation have made?

 

[Conq]

Yes, so?
You haven`t replied to my question. What difference, if any, would a link to TI in lieu of bisnation made?

A large amount of traffic, exposure, and a level of recognition for what the one consistent website through most of Twink history stands for. Which isn't to take away from bisnation because I've got nothing but love for our friends over there, my point is that there is no us vs them, I think what I would have preferred would be both websites being listed, yet this ship has sailed and is old news.

 

[Tom Ganks]

Yes, so?
You haven`t replied to my question. What difference, if any, would a link to TI in lieu of bisnation have made?

This is to discuss the future of twinkinfo. What which you are bringing up will not be a part of. End the topic now.

 

[Selaya]

A large amount of traffic, exposure, and a level of recognition for what the one consistent website through most of Twink history stands for.

I`m sorry, but, cool? And what`d we gain from that? Buy a cookie, I guess?

Because what you`re doing right now is just kinda validating Hamcake`s point - that nothing of real value is to be gained.

 

[Hamcake]

This is to discuss the future of twinkinfo. What which you are bringing up will not be a part of. End the topic now.

you are incredibly rude, you should tone it down a little

 

[paynefull]

Never had any dealings with private servers but I will say this.

There are many perspectives on wow that delve into legitimate and illegitimate aspects of the game. A site like this is on the minority when compared with sites like mmo..etc, because of this the chances of bliz having any dealings with this site is very very farfetched. Something like private servers which deals with the illegitimate aspect of wow is frowned upon by bliz, the reason it is frowned upon is because it can convince players to drop their subs and go to these private servers thus lowering the value of wow and by extension lowering the value of the game for other people. Less people = less "mmo" = less fun.

Me personally, I don't mind a section for private servers but as a community I can understand why people do mind. Illegitimate activities have a tendency to evolve into more illegitimate activities, eg, people selling stuff for real money on this site turning into credit card scams etc. It attracts people that will push simple illegitimacies to other levels, and by law of association, what you associate with defines who you are.

Because of this, people have the right to choose who they associate with, having something that is frowned upon by bliz will cause this site to be frowned upon. This site having illegitimate sections, will cause the site to become illegitimate etc. So even though there is a community for private servers, no one here is obligated to contain that interest as it could potentially affect the well being of the site for all sections.

 

[Hamcake]

A site like this is on the minority when compared with sites like mmo..etc, because of this the chances of bliz having any dealings with this site is very very farfetched.

That's exactly right, theorizing beyond this is like cutting off your leg for an insignificantly better chance of winning the lottery

 

[paynefull]

That's exactly right, theorizing beyond this is like cutting off your leg for an insignificantly better chance of winning the lottery

My point to this end isn't the risk of bliz not interacting with this site but more rather this site could potentially have a negative effects on the people that are already here and a possible deterrence for potential people that might want to come to this site.

 

[Hamcake]

My point to this end isn't the risk of bliz not interacting with this site but more rather this site could potentially have a negative effects on the people that are already here and a possible deterrence for potential people that might want to come to this site.

that is an interesting point. I know you said that in your last post and I meant to respond to it but got distracted. Apologies for that, I know how it feels when a chunk of your post is ignored.

My two cents on this would be to differentiate the kind of private servers in question here. Big private servers can be shady and exploitative but we've always limited the section on TI to specifically twink related private servers which are usually driven by a desire to provide for the community. In that sense it's a positive thing but I do see where a community member could be uncomfortable with the idea whatever the case.

 

[Selaya]

I have to disagree here, the section wasn`t all about pure Twink servers; there`s been a fair deal of people and threads about Twinking on a 'normal' Private Server.
However, everything there was Twink related.

 

[Allybeboba]

See this:What /tangible/ gains are we expecting from this change? Can you provide a few examples of those (hint: A Twink Cup link to TI in lieu of bisnation doesn`t really make the cut)?
Something like thatwould be a good one, tho I kinda doubt that any Blizzard dev will deem it worth their time to post here, but the idea counts.

Can you provide tangible gains by not following Blizzard's ToS and actually have them recognize this site?

/cheers
Sweetsidney

 

[Hamcake]

Can you provide tangible gains by not following Blizzard's ToS and actually have them recognize this site?

/cheers
Sweetsidney

Yes.

Informing and allowing discussion of projects of many kinds by community members tailor made for specific brackets. Such projects can provide a platform to revisit favourite eras of twinking. Some points from my own developments past and current:

Many quality of life additions in terms of setting up a character, access to features prohibited at lower levels such as rated PvP or cosmetics, brand new or backported features such as rated battlegrounds in 3.3.5a, custom pvp events designed for smaller playerbases, automated tournaments, dynamic battleground rulesets allowing timers, victory conditions and custom scenarios to be changed, automatic class caps to ensure team compositions aren't too skewed, automatic pvp team management, battleground replays and some other stuff that I've been working on for the last 1 and a half years.

As much as the mods want to deny it, the existence of the section is very much so linked to the existence of projects like this that are tailor made for our community. It's not like I know everyone who would have an interest in playing this personally. It's not as if there is another hub for twinking where they can come across this information. But yeah, no big loss.

 

[Allybeboba]

Yes.

Informing and allowing discussion of projects of many kinds by community members tailor made for specific brackets. Such projects can provide a platform to revisit favourite eras of twinking. Some points from my own developments past and current:

Many quality of life additions in terms of setting up a character, access to features prohibited at lower levels such as rated PvP or cosmetics, brand new or backported features such as rated battlegrounds in 3.3.5a, custom pvp events designed for smaller playerbases, automated tournaments, dynamic battleground rulesets allowing timers, victory conditions and custom scenarios to be changed, automatic class caps to ensure team compositions aren't too skewed, automatic pvp team management, battleground replays and some other stuff that I've been working on for the last 1 and a half years.

As much as the mods want to deny it, the existence of the section is very much so linked to the existence of projects like this that are tailor made for our community. It's not like I know everyone who would have an interest in playing this personally. It's not as if there is another hub for twinking where they can come across this information. But yeah, no big loss.

So you are stating this site solely makes all that possible? That one little forum?
Doesn't moltenwow offer this?

And how does all this help me in the live game? How does it help all of us that play the live game? All of us that do not want to go 5 years in the past. Most of today's populace looks to the future. Like the new TI owner.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

 

[Myrm]

In the future Twinkinfo will be a a direct sponsor of the Twink Cup, which increases the risk of Blizzard shutting down both as we gain more exposure. WoW is Blizzard's intellectual property and it would be nothing for them to shut down this site and the Twink Cup and crush the dreams of the entire community while they're just barely getting off the ground. The twink community is making moves that even Blizzard can't ignore, and so far that's been a great thing, but while we recognize their potential to help us grow as a community it's also important to remember that they wield the sword of Damocles.

I want to see the Twink Cup grow into a self-sustaining, yearly LAN tournament and community meetup. I want to see Blizzard promote twinking as a viable alternative to endgame content to keep people playing when they get bored of the constant grind. I want to see articles from our community featured on the front page of Battlenet. I want to see the Twink Cup hosted at Blizzcon and to see teams from our community get professional sponsorships, and I want to see our community grow and surpass all the other gaming communities. When they dig through the rubble of our civilization in 2000 years and find WoW and Twinkinfo's servers I want them to immortalize "Pizza" and "Saxxon" as the great heroes of our era.

What happens if Blizzard won't work with us? Then I guess my dreams will remain dreams. But if we don't try to work with them we will never grow past the point we're at now, the Twink Cup will fizzle out and our community will never reach the heights of glory that it's capable of.

I respect what you've done for the community Hamcake, your name is one of the oldest and most iconic here, but if the community doesn't evolve it will perish.

 

[Hamcake]

So you are stating this site solely makes all that possible? That one little forum?
Doesn't moltenwow offer this?

And how does all this help me in the live game? How does it help all of us that play the live game? All of us that do not want to go 5 years in the past. Most of today's populace looks to the future. Like the new TI owner.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

Yes, that forum makes all that possible. The audience for those projects exists here, nowhere else.
No, molten wow does not offer this.
It helps you in the same way discussion of other brackets helps your own: it doesn't. That's irrelevant.
The other expansion was just an example, private servers can be created for any expansion.

 

[Hamcake]

In the future Twinkinfo will be a a direct sponsor of the Twink Cup, which increases the risk of Blizzard shutting down both as we gain more exposure. WoW is Blizzard's intellectual property and it would be nothing for them to shut down this site and the Twink Cup and crush the dreams of the entire community while they're just barely getting off the ground. The twink community is making moves that even Blizzard can't ignore, and so far that's been a great thing, but while we recognize their potential to help us grow as a community it's also important to remember that they wield the sword of Damocles.

I want to see the Twink Cup grow into a self-sustaining, yearly LAN tournament and community meetup, I want to see Blizzard promote twinking as a viable alternative to endgame content to keep people playing when they get bored of the constant grind, I want to see articles from our community featured on the front page of Battlenet, I want to see the Twink Cup hosted at Blizzcon and to see teams from our community get professional sponsorships, I want to see our community grow and surpass all the other gaming communities. When they dig through the rubble of our civilization in 2000 years and find WoW and Twinkinfo's servers I want them to immortalize "Pizza" and "Saxxon" as the great heroes of our era.

What happens if Blizzard won't work with us? Then I guess my dreams will remain dreams. But if we don't try to work with them we will never grow past the point we're at now, the Twink Cup will fizzle out and our community will never reach the heights of glory that it's capable of.

I respect what you've done for the community Hamcake, your name is one of the oldest and most iconic here, but if the community doesn't evolve it will perish.

Thanks for clarifying your vision, there is a lot here that I wasn't aware of before. I'm totally behind this and hope you know I was only trying to understand the decision by discovering what was at stake on both sides