The Current state of 19 twinking...

[willix]

Alright m8s here is the master piece i made paint piktur rather than video but please when looking at this work of art listen to youtube eipic musicx

How many people would you say have a mongoose rogue that actually play wargames with us? Luplis has one he rarely plays. Tapout rarely ever plays with us. Most of the time, NO ONE is even using a mongoose rogue. Just because you dueled Tapout once upon a time and took a screen shot, doesn't mean your experience translates to the experience everyone will have or should expect to have when playing wargames.

Or we needed him to be an anchor because some durps made toons on ursin or some rando servers when the hub was windrunner/dmaw like wtf????

Except for the fact that you're the random playing with us.

Are you saying Saxxon farms with his guildies? I don't think I've never seen him group queue..

Cuz your personal experience must be true and correct in every situation, right? You've never seen him group queue or GY farm, therefore he's never done it....

Brilliant.

You asked why anyone with self respect would queue for them, clearly saying you yourself don't possess any self respect hence why you contradicted yourself.

Clearly you don't understand what the word 'rhetorical' means.

I rest my case.

What case? You complained about GF gear most people we play with currently don't even have/use. GF gear that hasn't been relevant for a long time.

 

[Karmaz]

How many people would you say have a mongoose rogue that actually play wargames with us? Luplis has one he rarely plays. Tapout rarely ever plays with us. Most of the time, NO ONE is even using a mongoose rogue. Just because you dueled Tapout once upon a time and took a screen shot, doesn't mean your experience translates to the experience everyone will have or should expect to have when playing wargames.

What case? You complained about GF gear most people we play with currently don't even have/use. GF gear that hasn't been relevant for a long time.

That's not what you said at all, you stated that GF gear has never been a factor.... ever. If anything GF gear is a bigger issue now compared to Cata rofl. I don't know if you if you realized this but I was dueling Minow on my rogue in that picture, but that just goes to show how little situational awareness you have even in still photos, I cannot imagine what playing at 60fps must be like for you hahaha

When people ask me about 29s I tell them about how it is the most balanced brackets for arenas (HP to damage and the amount of abilities most classes have) if you don't use GF gear, which is true. Then they ask about who they should talk to about getting started and unfortunately I have to inform them about how the activity is very low and how the only active players are --- for the most part --- mouthbreathing idiots, which is also true : (

GFd gear has always been relevant, it's only with 5.4 that some of it will become a non factor, I dont understand how you are completely oblivious to this.

P.S. It's not that the balance at 29s isn't great. It is the majority of the player base are fucking terrible and no one (that understands/dislikes their perpetual idiocy) wants to play with them because if you try to bring up any constructive criticism it just gets swept under the carpet because they are just trying to have "fun" and are too busy staying in their shit habits of skeying and doing very little for the team.

 

[willix]

That's not what you said at all, you stated that GF gear has never been a factor.... ever.

I said it's never been important. There has never been a time where a player is not viable in the game if they don't happen to have GF gear.

If anything GF gear is a bigger issue now compared to Cata rofl.

No it's not. Like I said before, but you were unable to comprehend, most of the time, no one we play with is using GF gear.

Did u get that?

I don't know if you if you realized this but I was dueling Minow on my rogue in that picture, but that just goes to show how little situational awareness you have even in still photos, I cannot imagine what playing at 60fps must be like for you hahaha

What do I care who you were dueling in that picture? What relevance does that have to the fact that you point out how mongoloid mongoose rogues are at every chance you get? What does your screen shot have to do with the fact that you're choosing to focus on something I said within a specific context, of which you're ignoring just so you can continue to harp on mongoose rogues?

When people ask me about 29s I tell them about how it is the most balanced brackets for arenas (HP to damage and the amount of abilities most classes have) if you don't use GF gear, which is true. Then they ask about who they should talk to about getting started and unfortunately I have to inform them about how the activity is very low and how the only active players are --- for the most part --- mouthbreathing idiots, which is also true : (

What you should do instead is point out how you have no frame of reference to the current state of 29s, then point those people in the direction myself or Luplis.

FYI, you can call other people mouth breathing idiots all you want to. That doesn't change the fact we are doing our best to get people interested in the bracket, with a large degree of success, I might add. You don't have to play, hell, you don't even have to like it.

It's happening regardless of your elitism and backwards logic.

'People don't play to win, therefore they are mouth breathing idiots.'

~ Derv, the Canadian who doesn't understand video games are for having fun.

GFd gear has always been relevant, it's only with 5.4 that some of it will become a non factor, I dont understand how you are completely oblivious to this.

The only time grandfathered gear has ever been relevant is when it had higher item levels and could take superior enchants, thus having a higher total stat allocation than other gear. Since Wotlk, we've seen itemization increase on non GF gear so much than even with the higher ilvl enchants, most of it is barely as good as other available alternatives. The few exceptions were those I listed earlier (Skullbreaker, Nailspitter, and Deadman's Hand).

With 5.4, enchants no longer have a level requirement, thus voiding the entire reason GF gear was ever good to begin with. The only GF item in the 29 bracket that will still retain it's value/power, is Deadman's Hand. No one using Skullbreaker with Mongoose will have a huge advantage because EVERYONE will be able to get Mongoose on weapons that are better suited for rogues/monks/whatever.

On top of that, we'll have a plethora of other great enchants to choose from, such as Executioner, Elemental Force, Dancing Steel, Power Torrent, and Jade Spirit.

Nailspitter will no longer be BiS for 29 hunters (even though there's only a few hunters who ever had it anyway) because scopes will not be applicable unless you have a BoA to put it on with a high level character.

As you can see, I've done my homework, I know far more about the 5.4 changes than you think I do. When I say GF is not important, especially in 5.4, I happen to know what I am talking about.

P.S. It's not that the balance at 29s isn't great. It is the majority of the player base are fucking terrible and no one (that understands/dislikes their perpetual idiocy) wants to play with them because if you try to bring up any constructive criticism it just gets swept under the carpet because they are just trying to have "fun" and are too busy staying in their shit habits of skeying and doing very little for the team.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but at low levels, you get NOTHING for winning. If all you care about is the satisfaction of melting the other teams faces, why are you playing with people who care about things like having fun or being friends? We've played 100s of wargames in the last couple months, and every time it happens, we debate asking you to come play, but then come to the same conclusion: you only play if you can roll God Comp, then you bitch and whine if you get anyone other than Minow, Kunz, or Auggidin on your team.

You are perfectly fine with imbal comps and facerolling for hours, but as soon as you lose, you ragequit. The fact of the matter is none of us wants to play with you and your shitty attitude, regardless of how you think any of us could improve our play. None of us miss the whining and bitching about playing with people you don't like.

You're doing us a favor by being an asshole, it makes the decision not to invite you that much easier.

 

[saxxon]

Cuz your personal experience must be true and correct in every situation, right? You've never seen him group queue or GY farm, therefore he's never done it....

iv only solo qued so ur pretty fucking lost man, i hav a guild of 3 people in it
Roster - Community - World of Warcraft

unlike you i give a damn about this bracket and have promoted HEALTHY games not farmfests... i constantly swap between horde and alliance to balance out warsong that are currently going on

if you think the 19 bracket is all about "farming the gy" youre so wrong its not even funny

 

[willix]

iv only solo qued so ur pretty fucking lost man, i hav a guild of 3 people in it
Roster - Community - World of Warcraft

unlike you i give a damn about this bracket and have promoted HEALTHY games not farmfests... i constantly swap between horde and alliance to balance out warsong that are currently going on

if you think the 19 bracket is all about "farming the gy" youre so wrong its not even funny

Should I take your word on any of this?

 

[Mocha]

Should I take your word on any of this?

Considering how you don't play 19s I'd say, yes you should take his word.

 

[Solipsist]

Should I take your word on any of this?

You don't possess the ability to agree with anyone, remember?

 

[willix]

You don't posses the ability to agree with anyone, remember?

Sure I do. You just don't happen to say anything I agree with.

Considering how you don't play 19s I'd say, yes you should take his word.

If I don't play, how would I know that games quality is typically one sided, usually involving GY farming?

 

[tence]

If I don't play, how would I know that games quality is typically one sided, usually involving GY farming?

been like that since cata.

 

[Rithonuwy]

Everyone needs to come to terms that gy farming will never stop. Its been happening for 6 plus years. But it would be nice to see players from guilds like raw talent and a few others to switch sides more often to help the team getting farmed. It seems like when they do go ali games are more competative and the ques last longer

 

[Karmaz]

I said it's never been important. There has never been a time where a player is not viable in the game if they don't happen to have GF gear.

Sorry wait what, How the hell is this even close to being true? It should be completely apparent with the 29 2v2 tournament. Do you remember when Minow and Auggidin played Boomkin Disc vs Tapout and Livingfoce as Rogue Disc? The series went 3-2 to Living's team and they were completely carried by gear - hands down without a doubt. They tried to refute this by saying they would rematch without grandfathered gear and had their faces used -- excuse my language -- to fucking mop the floor with a clean sweep no contest of 3-0 to Minow and Ethan's team.On top of that. Every. Single. Game. that Tapout was not able to use his Mongoosed weapons he lost.

No it's not. Like I said before, but you were unable to comprehend, most of the time, no one we play with is using GF gear.

Did u get that?

Fair enough, you are saying that it isn't a problem because no one is using it in your games while I was merely saying that GF gear, when brought into the equation, is a problem. Just a simple miscommunication and perhaps a clashing of semantics.

What do I care who you were dueling in that picture? What relevance does that have to the fact that you point out how mongoloid mongoose rogues are at every chance you get? What does your screen shot have to do with the fact that you're choosing to focus on something I said within a specific context, of which you're ignoring just so you can continue to harp on mongoose rogues?

I mean it doesn't really matter whether you care about the picture or not, it just helps to illustrates the potential lack of in depth thought that goes into your posts, perhaps a slight swing at you, nothing more. I am a little confused by the next sentence which i assume is just fragmented but i guess ill answer the latter portion as it seems to be a question. I try to drive home the point the Mongoose rogues are ridiculous because they reduce any form of skill required to play the game. It takes away from competition and wastes peoples time with RNG kills that are just given to the player because they played in years past.

I am confused as to what exactly is being ignored? Explain further please.

What you should do instead is point out how you have no frame of reference to the current state of 29s, then point those people in the direction myself or Luplis.

I am reasonably confident that you two have not changed your ways or ideologies and thus nothing substantial has changed within the bracket, I try and limit the frustration of others that confide in me because we usually have around the same mindset of improvement rather than staying perpetually awful. I am sure it hasn't passed by you that the players of the mindset you seek usually wouldn't consult me for advice so what do you really have to lose? If anything I am helping you because once those players departed from "your bracket" they would echoing the same message I spread which would most likely be heard by more ears.

: )

FYI, you can call other people mouth breathing idiots all you want to. That doesn't change the fact we are doing our best to get people interested in the bracket, with a large degree of success, I might add. You don't have to play, hell, you don't even have to like it.

Congratulations on getting people hyped for a bracket. I am thoroughly confused by you conflicting logic though,what happened to : Quality > Quantity?

It's happening regardless of your elitism and backwards logic.

Nothing of worth is really happening anyway. lol

'People don't play to win, therefore they are mouth breathing idiots.'

~ Derv, the Canadian who doesn't understand video games are for having fun.

"People only play for fun and should do so without using any form of cognitive thought to uphold the paramount value of fun"

~ Willy, the Americant who doesn't understand the concept of improvement and uses the excuse of "just having fun" as the catalyst to his perpetual state of sub par play.

The only time grandfathered gear has ever been relevant is when it had higher item levels and could take superior enchants, thus having a higher total stat allocation than other gear. Since Wotlk, we've seen itemization increase on non GF gear so much than even with the higher ilvl enchants, most of it is barely as good as other available alternatives. The few exceptions were those I listed earlier (Skullbreaker, Nailspitter, and Deadman's Hand).

Please don't tell me you are actually this clueless... since when have nearly equal stats become priority over weapon damage? I know you like to think you understand stat theory crafting but Jesus man, half the battle is already lost when you look over such a major factor...

With 5.4, enchants no longer have a level requirement, thus voiding the entire reason GF gear was ever good to begin with. The only GF item in the 29 bracket that will still retain it's value/power, is Deadman's Hand. No one using Skullbreaker with Mongoose will have a huge advantage because EVERYONE will be able to get Mongoose on weapons that are better suited for rogues/monks/whatever.

With 5.4 equalizing the "Enchant Playing Field" so to speak, some grandfathered items will become just a tad bit better than available alternatives, sure. The main GFd items that actually made a difference though were weapons and it hurts my head how you think that a few primary/secondary stats are going to make up for the night and day difference of somewhere in the ballpark of 20% increase in weapon damage.

On top of that, we'll have a plethora of other great enchants to choose from, such as Executioner, Elemental Force, Dancing Steel, Power Torrent, and Jade Spirit.

If you can apply these on any item at any level then I don't not see how this makes other obtainable weapons better?

Nailspitter will no longer be BiS for 29 hunters (even though there's only a few hunters who ever had it anyway) because scopes will not be applicable unless you have a BoA to put it on with a high level character.

I find this pretty hard to believe. Unless there is a scope that is really insane like does damage or crazy procs or scales really well Nailspitter will still be far and away better.

As you can see, I've done my homework, I know far more about the 5.4 changes than you think I do. When I say GF is not important, especially in 5.4, I happen to know what I am talking about.

Not really, your over zealous belief in stats blinds you from the truth about weapon damage and its superiority.

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but at low levels, you get NOTHING for winning. If all you care about is the satisfaction of melting the other teams faces, why are you playing with people who care about things like having fun or being friends? We've played 100s of wargames in the last couple months, and every time it happens, we debate asking you to come play, but then come to the same conclusion: you only play if you can roll God Comp, then you bitch and whine if you get anyone other than Minow, Kunz, or Auggidin on your team.

You don't receive any in game-tangible reward at low levels, no (if you understand what I mean by that), but some of us like to improve rather than have a stagnant play style. I don't enjoy melting other teams that don't fight back, I enjoy playing against competent players who know how to modify their play style and improve which then forces me and my team to change in order to be able to put up more of a fight and making those wins AND loses much more enjoyable. The reason that I rarely participate in the games, among other reasons is that I have the ability to just roll into the games, play at a slightly higher than average level, and move mountains with little to no push back. Its boring playing against you and most of your team mates because you just play the same crappy strats, the same crappy way with the same crap response times with the same crappy carebear vomit inducing attitudes. I do tend to play with people who like having fun and like being friends but we also know when its time to sit down and use our brains to help solve ourselves through a problem. IT is the exact reason as to why you and I do not see eye to eye. It is because you disregard any form of seriousness solely because this happens to be a video game.

You are perfectly fine with imbal comps and facerolling for hours, but as soon as you lose, you ragequit. The fact of the matter is none of us wants to play with you and your shitty attitude, regardless of how you think any of us could improve our play. None of us miss the whining and bitching about playing with people you don't like.

I have no idea where you come up with these ludicrous statements where I only like imbalanced comps. If I wanted to play imbalanced comps I would just play triple healer with a boomkin spriest and resto sham or something. If anything I try to avoid these stacked comps because they are too powerful if played by the right people and too fucking boring to play against in the hands of shitbads because the game takes forever due to it being a very forgiving comp even when played improperly

I only get upset when people squeak out a win due to their comp, very rarely do I get upset if I get beat by someone who actually has half a brain.

You're doing us a favor by being an asshole, it makes the decision not to invite you that much easier.

You act as if the ball is in your court, to tell you the truth, it never has been. If I wanted to play I would assemble 6 or more relatively competent players which would -- without a doubt -- exclude you.

All you have is Quantity, not Quality.

 

[Pushxtwinkerpwn]

You're playing world of warcraft

 

[saxxon]

que ur twinks... i will eb sitting in que all day wiating for the games.

 

[Ridwane]

Sorry wait what, How the hell is this even close to being true? It should be completely apparent with the 29 2v2 tournament. Do you remember when Minow and Auggidin played Boomkin Disc vs Tapout and Livingfoce as Rogue Disc? The series went 3-2 to Living's team and they were completely carried by gear - hands down without a doubt. They tried to refute this by saying they would rematch without grandfathered gear and had their faces used -- excuse my language -- to fucking mop the floor with a clean sweep no contest of 3-0 to Minow and Ethan's team.On top of that. Every. Single. Game. that Tapout was not able to use his Mongoosed weapons he lost.



Fair enough, you are saying that it isn't a problem because no one is using it in your games while I was merely saying that GF gear, when brought into the equation, is a problem. Just a simple miscommunication and perhaps a clashing of semantics.



I mean it doesn't really matter whether you care about the picture or not, it just helps to illustrates the potential lack of in depth thought that goes into your posts, perhaps a slight swing at you, nothing more. I am a little confused by the next sentence which i assume is just fragmented but i guess ill answer the latter portion as it seems to be a question. I try to drive home the point the Mongoose rogues are ridiculous because they reduce any form of skill required to play the game. It takes away from competition and wastes peoples time with RNG kills that are just given to the player because they played in years past.

I am confused as to what exactly is being ignored? Explain further please.



I am reasonably confident that you two have not changed your ways or ideologies and thus nothing substantial has changed within the bracket, I try and limit the frustration of others that confide in me because we usually have around the same mindset of improvement rather than staying perpetually awful. I am sure it hasn't passed by you that the players of the mindset you seek usually wouldn't consult me for advice so what do you really have to lose? If anything I am helping you because once those players departed from "your bracket" they would echoing the same message I spread which would most likely be heard by more ears.

: )



Congratulations on getting people hyped for a bracket. I am thoroughly confused by you conflicting logic though,what happened to : Quality > Quantity?



Nothing of worth is really happening anyway. lol



"People only play for fun and should do so without using any form of cognitive thought to uphold the paramount value of fun"

~ Willy, the Americant who doesn't understand the concept of improvement and uses the excuse of "just having fun" as the catalyst to his perpetual state of sub par play.



Please don't tell me you are actually this clueless... since when have nearly equal stats become priority over weapon damage? I know you like to think you understand stat theory crafting but Jesus man, half the battle is already lost when you look over such a major factor...



With 5.4 equalizing the "Enchant Playing Field" so to speak, some grandfathered items will become just a tad bit better than available alternatives, sure. The main GFd items that actually made a difference though were weapons and it hurts my head how you think that a few primary/secondary stats are going to make up for the night and day difference of somewhere in the ballpark of 20% increase in weapon damage.



If you can apply these on any item at any level then I don't not see how this makes other obtainable weapons better?



I find this pretty hard to believe. Unless there is a scope that is really insane like does damage or crazy procs or scales really well Nailspitter will still be far and away better.



Not really, your over zealous belief in stats blinds you from the truth about weapon damage and its superiority.



You don't receive any in game-tangible reward at low levels, no (if you understand what I mean by that), but some of us like to improve rather than have a stagnant play style. I don't enjoy melting other teams that don't fight back, I enjoy playing against competent players who know how to modify their play style and improve which then forces me and my team to change in order to be able to put up more of a fight and making those wins AND loses much more enjoyable. The reason that I rarely participate in the games, among other reasons is that I have the ability to just roll into the games, play at a slightly higher than average level, and move mountains with little to no push back. Its boring playing against you and most of your team mates because you just play the same crappy strats, the same crappy way with the same crap response times with the same crappy carebear vomit inducing attitudes. I do tend to play with people who like having fun and like being friends but we also know when its time to sit down and use our brains to help solve ourselves through a problem. IT is the exact reason as to why you and I do not see eye to eye. It is because you disregard any form of seriousness solely because this happens to be a video game.



I have no idea where you come up with these ludicrous statements where I only like imbalanced comps. If I wanted to play imbalanced comps I would just play triple healer with a boomkin spriest and resto sham or something. If anything I try to avoid these stacked comps because they are too powerful if played by the right people and too fucking boring to play against in the hands of shitbads because the game takes forever due to it being a very forgiving comp even when played improperly

I only get upset when people squeak out a win due to their comp, very rarely do I get upset if I get beat by someone who actually has half a brain.



You act as if the ball is in your court, to tell you the truth, it never has been. If I wanted to play I would assemble 6 or more relatively competent players which would -- without a doubt -- exclude you.

All you have is Quantity, not Quality.

I don't know why you still answer him... Even people with english as 3rd language know he need a map when he talk about 19's.

 

[Dorigon]

These quote fests bring dullness to a new level.

 

[willix]

>Snip<

I'm not responding to you quote for quote, you have a very skewed logic on too many things. Instead, I'm going to ask you to suspend all your current beliefs regarding the 29s (since you don't have an accurate frame of reference anyway) so I can relay some life changing information to you in a relevant manner.

1. GF gear is not relevant. This means exactly what it implies. We have several players from other brackets who have rolled their first 29s, doing just as well as anyone else who happens to have GF gear.

2. The GF gear I mentioned specifically (Skullbreaker/Nailspitter/Deadman's Hand) is relatively rare even amongst currently active twinks who have GF gear. Knowing this, we elect not to use it for the sake of balance. Hence, my statement regarding GF gear not being relevant.

3. The impact these items have on the game, even when used, is largely fabricated by players like you. You mention the top end of Skullbreaker being 20% higher than the top end of any other available weapon, and this just isn't accurate.

If I log my enhance shaman, equip my Skullbreaker instead of my BoA mace, my top end dmg drops by... 4 (169 to 165). Not 20%. That's not a very significant difference. Now, when a mongoose proc happens, increasing agi by 120, THAT makes a significant difference. The correct factor to argue about when it comes to Skullbreaker is the Mongoose, not the weapon itself.

In 5.4, mongoose is getting nerfed by 25% for low level players and will be useable by anyone on any weapon, further diminshing the impact Skullbreaker would have, were it being used.

Nailspitter is BoP for the character who picks it up. Scopes still require a high level player to attach them, and don't work through the trade window. This means that unless you apply the scope to a BoA weapon and send it through the mail, you can't use high level scopes.

X-Ray scope will scale down to 300 ranged AP on proc for players between 1-60, thus making a BoA gun/bow with X-Ray scope competitive with Nailspitter.

Deadman's Hand is just a good situational proc against melee sometimes. Never been OP (though I know how much you'll argue against that since you hate RNG).

4. Your belief regarding our idea of 'having fun' is 'derping around mindlessly not caring about skill or coordinated play.' This is not true. Our idea of 'having fun' is ensuring games are about skill and not class comp or gear. This is why we do our best to play balanced comps, where both sides have equal numbers ranged/melee/healer and equal amounts of CC, without either side having too many OP classes.

The problem with your logic in this regard is you want the games to be about absolute maximum skill level and only include players who can play that way in your team. You could give a shit about playing with people who are lesser skilled, even if that means not being able to queue at all. We value the ability to play our toons, and are willing to play with people who are lesser skilled to achieve that effect.

However, instead of inviting them to come play then forcing them all on the same team together as you would do, we work to make sure both teams have roughly the same skill level on each side. This not only keeps things interesting, as group skill plays a larger factor than class or gear, but it prevents one side from easily dominating.

In most of the games you've ever played with/against us, you've rolled hunter/disc on a team which is an insanely OP comp for anyone to try and play against. No matter how you slice it, you have 16 seconds of uninterruptable CC you can coordinate between the priest or hunter every 30 seconds, CC which you can land no matter what the opposing team does to play around it. Those matches will inevitably play out something like this: CC chain > burst > force CDs/trinkets > survive for 30 seconds > CC chain > burst > force CDs/trinkets > survive 30 seconds > CC chain > burst > force CDs/trinkets > survive for 30 seconds > CC chain > burst > force CDs/trinkets > survive 30 seconds: until you've successfully killed one of the DPS while the healer is CC'd.

Even if the opposing team plays perfectly, all you have to do is wait out your short CDs and try again later. It doesn't take much skill to abuse that kind of game play, especially when you throw another class which can CC in there. Hunter/Priest/Mage = people sitting in CC for days with no DR while their teammates get blown up, despite perfect play.

You pride yourself on being a good player, but you make the mistake of thinking that individual skill is all that's important. Sure, it bugs you when your teammate doesn't do what you want them to, but that's life. Learning to deal with other people's shortcomings and build on them is how you make friends and get through it successfully.

More to the point, we're trying to build a community for players to come play where quality > quantity (in it's most truest sense). We want everyone to be able to have fun and enjoy themselves (by 'fun,' we mean 'engage in competitive games where both teams have an equal chance at winning'). This might be a foreign concept to you, since you only care about being good at game and making sure other people know it.

5, We recognize that no two players are identical in what they bring to pvp, so rather than point out their flaws and break them down by calling them 'mouth breathing idiots,' we understand that team skill trumps personal skill and we can control how that skill is divided up between each team. Some people might have great situational awareness but lack a lot of skill with their class. Some people might have a lot of skill with their class but lack teamwork skills. Some people might be average at everything and not have any one particular strength. Some people might be great leaders and have a lot of knowledge about strategy.

Instead of criticizing these players for their faults, we do our best to make them feel welcome and give them a place to play the game they enjoy playing. Other brackets (especially 19s, 39s, and 49s), could learn a few things about community building, taking a social queue from us. After all, this is a social game and the only reason to play it is to play with friends.

Without friends, all you're left with is your uber skillz and no one cares.

 

[Erotk]

19's que now!

 

[Yowza]

I'm not responding to you quote for quote, you have a very skewed logic on too many things. Instead, I'm going to ask you to suspend all your current beliefs regarding the 29s (since you don't have an accurate frame of reference anyway) so I can relay some life changing information to you in a relevant manner.

1. GF gear is not relevant. This means exactly what it implies. We have several players from other brackets who have rolled their first 29s, doing just as well as anyone else who happens to have GF gear.

2. The GF gear I mentioned specifically (Skullbreaker/Nailspitter/Deadman's Hand) is relatively rare even amongst currently active twinks who have GF gear. Knowing this, we elect not to use it for the sake of balance. Hence, my statement regarding GF gear not being relevant.

3. The impact these items have on the game, even when used, is largely fabricated by players like you. You mention the top end of Skullbreaker being 20% higher than the top end of any other available weapon, and this just isn't accurate.

If I log my enhance shaman, equip my Skullbreaker instead of my BoA mace, my top end dmg drops by... 4 (169 to 165). Not 20%. That's not a very significant difference. Now, when a mongoose proc happens, increasing agi by 120, THAT makes a significant difference. The correct factor to argue about when it comes to Skullbreaker is the Mongoose, not the weapon itself.

In 5.4, mongoose is getting nerfed by 25% for low level players and will be useable by anyone on any weapon, further diminshing the impact Skullbreaker would have, were it being used.

Nailspitter is BoP for the character who picks it up. Scopes still require a high level player to attach them, and don't work through the trade window. This means that unless you apply the scope to a BoA weapon and send it through the mail, you can't use high level scopes.

X-Ray scope will scale down to 300 ranged AP on proc for players between 1-60, thus making a BoA gun/bow with X-Ray scope competitive with Nailspitter.

Deadman's Hand is just a good situational proc against melee sometimes. Never been OP (though I know how much you'll argue against that since you hate RNG).

4. Your belief regarding our idea of 'having fun' is 'derping around mindlessly not caring about skill or coordinated play.' This is not true. Our idea of 'having fun' is ensuring games are about skill and not class comp or gear. This is why we do our best to play balanced comps, where both sides have equal numbers ranged/melee/healer and equal amounts of CC, without either side having too many OP classes.

The problem with your logic in this regard is you want the games to be about absolute maximum skill level and only include players who can play that way in your team. You could give a shit about playing with people who are lesser skilled, even if that means not being able to queue at all. We value the ability to play our toons, and are willing to play with people who are lesser skilled to achieve that effect.

However, instead of inviting them to come play then forcing them all on the same team together as you would do, we work to make sure both teams have roughly the same skill level on each side. This not only keeps things interesting, as group skill plays a larger factor than class or gear, but it prevents one side from easily dominating.

In most of the games you've ever played with/against us, you've rolled hunter/disc on a team which is an insanely OP comp for anyone to try and play against. No matter how you slice it, you have 16 seconds of uninterruptable CC you can coordinate between the priest or hunter every 30 seconds, CC which you can land no matter what the opposing team does to play around it. Those matches will inevitably play out something like this: CC chain > burst > force CDs/trinkets > survive for 30 seconds > CC chain > burst > force CDs/trinkets > survive 30 seconds > CC chain > burst > force CDs/trinkets > survive for 30 seconds > CC chain > burst > force CDs/trinkets > survive 30 seconds: until you've successfully killed one of the DPS while the healer is CC'd.

Even if the opposing team plays perfectly, all you have to do is wait out your short CDs and try again later. It doesn't take much skill to abuse that kind of game play, especially when you throw another class which can CC in there. Hunter/Priest/Mage = people sitting in CC for days with no DR while their teammates get blown up, despite perfect play.

You pride yourself on being a good player, but you make the mistake of thinking that individual skill is all that's important. Sure, it bugs you when your teammate doesn't do what you want them to, but that's life. Learning to deal with other people's shortcomings and build on them is how you make friends and get through it successfully.

More to the point, we're trying to build a community for players to come play where quality > quantity (in it's most truest sense). We want everyone to be able to have fun and enjoy themselves (by 'fun,' we mean 'engage in competitive games where both teams have an equal chance at winning'). This might be a foreign concept to you, since you only care about being good at game and making sure other people know it.

5, We recognize that no two players are identical in what they bring to pvp, so rather than point out their flaws and break them down by calling them 'mouth breathing idiots,' we understand that team skill trumps personal skill and we can control how that skill is divided up between each team. Some people might have great situational awareness but lack a lot of skill with their class. Some people might have a lot of skill with their class but lack teamwork skills. Some people might be average at everything and not have any one particular strength. Some people might be great leaders and have a lot of knowledge about strategy.

Instead of criticizing these players for their faults, we do our best to make them feel welcome and give them a place to play the game they enjoy playing. Other brackets (especially 19s, 39s, and 49s), could learn a few things about community building, taking a social queue from us. After all, this is a social game and the only reason to play it is to play with friends.

Without friends, all you're left with is your uber skillz and no one cares.

like i tried to read it but i just couldnt i dont understand ur 29 twink talk and i dont understand why you are posting about it in this thred please [MENTION=6085]Laurasia[/MENTION] seeing how u liked the wholemass cn u moderate and atleast censor the eyesore of nonrelevnt non19 info/banter/19twink stuff out

 

[Yowza]

holey fuck i actually read it and just, /current-state-19-twinking, the current state of 19s are affecting othrbrackets by the sense of bleeding assholes seeping into these forum categorys

 

[saxxon]

GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY PENIS! Charles Dozsa - YouTube