Separate f2p/veteran forums discussion

[Trialmop]

Haha, thanks. Just sharing my opinion.

Swoops and Björke do make good points, and the status quo seems fine, I just feel the disadvantages of a forum split are fairly insignificant and an added subsection would create a clutter-free platform for future F2P activities.

Sorry guys for so many post. I agree with what Yde is saying though. I have vets as well I just value F2P and how strong it has been through the years and it has been through some rough times. I understand there is a drought right now but I don't want to give up on the community standing by its self after nearly 4 years. Things are strange because I know most of us talking about this all have huge F2P ties, also no disrespect ment to p2ps.

 

[Björke]

Activity level should not dictate a forum. Vets are frozen P2P accounts that use items like the 20-29 forum. They belong there a lot more than with F2Ps. The bracket didn't really change that much other than a influx of p2ps which made some f2ps take a break or quit. Not to mention a number of f2ps I know got banned for 6 months.

Lots of people stated only in this thread, they play vet and f2p. Its the same people, thats why it makes sense to keep it together. Just more practical for the individual. Sure the downside is, that f2ps have to read vet thread's headlines and skip them and vice versa. But since either side is represented by a smaller amount of people than the group of vet+f2p players...

I think it's an important point that the current level of activity shouldn't factor into the decision. Bracket activity comes and goes. F2P might be in a lull right now, but might pick up again in the future.

I think it's more about the differences in potentially relevant information, and sorting information is the point of subforums.

The fact that there are fewer F2P activities might make a separate F2P forum look slow for a while, but relevant threads wouldn't be bumped off the first page.

I agree that no one can predict the future. But wouldn't it make more sense to adjust a working system when there is actually the need for adjustments? A rather empty f2p section seems less inviting to me than a more active mixed forum.

Sure sorting information is fine, but I think its important to keep the practicality in mind. As I said many people would find relevant information in both forums, so why not just keep them together? I can agree that 21+ content should stay seperated since there is more than BiS gear changes to it.

I can down a tree with a knife but an axe is much better suited to the job. Since you play trial, you know that we must work much harder to achieve our goals. Again our greatest strength is communication. It's not much, a seperate section, but utilized efficiently it can make an enormous impact. It really would be a shame to watch the trial legacy bleed out, when very small efforts can revive it. We have many options to overcome the challenges we face. We needed a dedicated place to nurture our creativity, which is the best way to improve the situation. Presentation is nothing trivial.

Im sorry, nice words though. But the only thing I see are promises, wishes and dreams that do not solely rely on you to be fulfilled. Honestly, we saw that organising f2p events was very much possible until now. Tags keep the information sorted for the people who are not interested in one side of the spectrum. Right now there is no overflow of people spamming the forum. And it appears more practical to me keep the forums together.
One argument against it, might be that myrm wants to establish bracket manageners. But since I dont really know what their task would be and how its supposed to work in such a heterogenous bracket, I cant say more about this issue.

P.S: Hallo Björke, es ist sehr toll zu sehen, dass du noch spielst!

Danke Ja klar, werde dem allen hier noch eine Weile erhalten bleiben! Freut mich, dass du dich auch mal wieder zu Wort meldest!

 

[Björke]

Sorry guys for so many post. I agree with what Yde is saying though. I have vets as well I just value F2P and how strong it has been through the years and it has been through some rough times. I understand there is a drought right now but I don't want to give up on the community standing by its self after nearly 4 years. Things are strange because I know most of us talking about this all have huge F2P ties, also no disrespect ment to p2ps.

I admire your dedication to f2p, but I doubt the things happening on TI influence people's decisions to roll vet or not, but what happens ingame does. Once f2p gets more popular again, a separate forum might be better. You can help achieve that sooner, by organising things on here. Right now I dont think its the best time to split things up though.

 

[Swoops]

[MENTION=10336]Yde[/MENTION] [MENTION=13519]Activate[/MENTION] etc.

Only weak point might be that you have to choose either account type or region and can't combine those.

That's a good point, didn't notice it.

I definitely see the benefits of a f2p/starter-only section, you guys have brought up some good points. Just by existing, the forum section could highlight/publicize starter edition accounts, and encourage more people to get involved in that community. That's really where my lack of a vested interest comes in. If I were more involved in f2p right now (although I have played a couple f2p games here and there recently!), that'd probably be a bigger factor for me. But even when I was more active in the bracket I played at all levels of it (20, p2p 20, a bit of 24, some 29 post-merger), so I do like seeing people of different account levels getting along.

There's a positive and negative. Separate communities at specific power levels in a bracket do encourage activities within them, but it also creates a major divide when they're forced to compete against each other. No easy answer in a bracket like this, and you'll never get everyone to agree.

 

[Trialmop]

I admire your dedication to f2p, but I doubt the things happening on TI influence people's decisions to roll vet or not, but what happens ingame does. Once f2p gets more popular again, a separate forum might be better. You can help achieve that sooner, by organising things on here. Right now I dont think its the best time to split things up though.

F2P activity in game is still higher than vets its just a matter of time before the site is flowing again. I think popularity isn't the problem of amount of people. Its the information in which is useless for f2ps in general. F2P has some of the best researchers and contributors such as yourself. F2P will do fine separate atm. I think F2P TI would come back faster with a separate forum from Vets.

 

[Trialmop]

[MENTION=10336]Yde[/MENTION] [MENTION=13519]Activate[/MENTION] etc.




That's a good point, didn't notice it.

I definitely see the benefits of a f2p/starter-only section, you guys have brought up some good points. Just by existing, the forum section could highlight/publicize starter edition accounts, and encourage more people to get involved in that community. That's really where my lack of a vested interest comes in. If I were more involved in f2p right now (although I have played a couple f2p games here and there recently!), that'd probably be a bigger factor for me. But even when I was more active in the bracket I played at all levels of it (20, p2p 20, a bit of 24, some 29 post-merger), so I do like seeing people of different account levels getting along.

There's a positive and negative. Separate communities at specific power levels in a bracket do encourage activities within them, but it also creates a major divide when they're forced to compete against each other. No easy answer in a bracket like this, and you'll never get everyone to agree.

Yup lol, What you said is probably 100% true. Its obvious why some F2P don't like 29s but with vets its not really effecting relationships between f2p. Its like living with a friend but you want your own privacy so you separate.

I have a lot of Vet and 29 friends and we stay friends but we all see clearly we are 3 separate communities. I would like to see all 3 have their own section on TI rather than this bull running at a red blanket set up.

 

[Björke]

F2P activity in game is still higher than vets its just a matter of time before the site is flowing again. I think popularity isn't the problem of amount of people. Its the information in which is useless for f2ps in general. F2P has some of the best researchers and contributors such as yourself. F2P will do fine separate atm. I think F2P TI would come back faster with a separate forum from Vets.

I'd like to see an active f2p forum again some time (and just another 20-29, no extra vet one). I hope the sites will flow in the future. If its better for now to have a f2p forum or not probably wont make a difference in the long run, since I hope and am pretty sure it will come back. For me its just debatable whether right now is the best time for this change or not. Maybe we will see another few months silence in there, maybe it will strengthen f2p. As I said, establishing a f2p bracket manager might be huge for this. From a practical standpoint right now, I'd rather keep it this way.

 

[Trialmop]

I'd like to see an active f2p forum again some time (and just another 20-29, no extra vet one). I hope the sites will flow in the future. If its better for now to have a f2p forum or not probably wont make a difference in the long run, since I hope and am pretty sure it will come back. For me its just debatable whether right now is the best time for this change or not. Maybe we will see another few months silence in there, maybe it will strengthen f2p. As I said, establishing a f2p bracket manager might be huge for this. From a practical standpoint right now, I'd rather keep it this way.

K.

Remove Vets! the yellow hurts my eyes!

 

[Activate]

I think [MENTION=10336]Yde[/MENTION]'s point about disadvantages of a trial section being minimal is spot on. The animosity between communities we've seen in the past is easily countered. Holding individuals accountable, stiffer penalties for flaming/baiting, consistent moderation and most importantly a communal effort towards acceptance is the answer. We are all responsible for our individual choices and actions. Banter is great, real hostility has no value.

 

[Epichealtime]

As someone who has both a vet and a f2p account id really just like to see it all in one place. Some things will apply just to f2ps or vets but I think we already have the option to label posts tho right?

 

[Trialmop]

As someone who has both a vet and a f2p account id really just like to see it all in one place. Some things will apply just to f2ps or vets but I think we already have the option to label posts tho right?

I have a toon in nearly every bracket, doesn't mean they should all be together.

 

[Shft]

This is an interesting topic I suppose. First off, the F2P section in my experience as a moderator was relatively free of animosity (ignoring those who created accounts for the sole reason of harassing the community) in general and I would expect that leaving the sections joined wouldn't result in any issues.

Being that I currently don't have a vested interest in the bracket I would say that I have a minimal amount of bias. Currently my understanding is that veteran players gear up like the 24s of the past and thus I would suggest that you treat the communities as the two communities have been in the past. Obviously since you (Myrm) created the thread you are not totally opposed to splitting the forums.

It is my belief that splitting the forums would create more genuine discussion. Let's say a user feeling frustrated by a series of unlucky WSGs posts a comment along the lines of, "Ugh sometimes I wish things were back in the cata days where not every game was dominated by those scum vet accs." Seeing this a proud veteran account player then makes a comment about how the first user wouldn't be able to win a WSG vs a team full of lvl 5s. One can see where I'm going with this: the thread degenerates into a back and forth where no discussion occurs and the topic is completely forgotten.

Obviously this is a hypothetical situation but it's not unreasonable to suggest that in the event that the two communities were separate such a confrontation might never occur because either party might not even have seen the thread in the first place. People who want to see all the threads are not restricted in doing so, they simply have to click a little bit more. With such threads not being derailed due to a difference in opinions more discussion can happen on a real and more specified level.

Activity-wise, let's be honest, there's more than enough activity in the F2P/Vet section to support two separate forums; some brackets don't see a single post for days.

 

[Trialmop]

This is an interesting topic I suppose. First off, the F2P section in my experience as a moderator was relatively free of animosity (ignoring those who created accounts for the sole reason of harassing the community) in general and I would expect that leaving the sections joined wouldn't result in any issues.

Being that I currently don't have a vested interest in the bracket I would say that I have a minimal amount of bias. Currently my understanding is that veteran players gear up like the 24s of the past and thus I would suggest that you treat the communities as the two communities have been in the past. Obviously since you (Myrm) created the thread you are not totally opposed to splitting the forums.

It is my belief that splitting the forums would create more genuine discussion. Let's say a user feeling frustrated by a series of unlucky WSGs posts a comment along the lines of, "Ugh sometimes I wish things were back in the cata days where not every game was dominated by those scum vet accs." Seeing this a proud veteran account player then makes a comment about how the first user wouldn't be able to win a WSG vs a team full of lvl 5s. One can see where I'm going with this: the thread degenerates into a back and forth where no discussion occurs and the topic is completely forgotten.

Obviously this is a hypothetical situation but it's not unreasonable to suggest that in the event that the two communities were separate such a confrontation might never occur because either party might not even have seen the thread in the first place. People who want to see all the threads are not restricted in doing so, they simply have to click a little bit more. With such threads not being derailed due to a difference in opinions more discussion can happen on a real and more specified level.

Activity-wise, let's be honest, there's more than enough activity in the F2P/Vet section to support two separate forums; some brackets don't see a single post for days.

Possible but Many of US don't care about 29s and vet to that point. That would happen rather Vets are still joined or not. Why share sections with a partial enemy it isn't fun in game and it isn't fun watching them talk in your bracket on what they can gain the best possible advantage over F2Ps using the noble reason of 29s.

 

[Epichealtime]

I have a toon in nearly every bracket, doesn't mean they should all be together.

Granted but its not like your 70 is gonna run into your 20 in a bg q tho

 

[Trialmop]

I personally just don't like seeing all the goodies not obtainable for a normal f2p in a section that was the heart and soul of F2P events and communication. Their is undeniably 2 communities here that clearly as stated above could support their own forums with easy. Its just the people that have both that wanna hold this bracket together.

 

[Trialmop]

Granted but its not like your 70 is gonna run into your 20 in a bg q tho

lol, good laugh. why do the ability to like post disappear at times?

 

[SPQR]

All the enchants, ways to obtain gold during short WoD trials, earn guild reputation, etc. don't really matter to the people not considering ever subbing their F2P accounts, while they're very interesting for people wanting to gear their vet.

except there is no worthy guides in 29s section, because they are all a sham that is too busy gy farming undergeared ppl.
They got no passion for bracket and will migrate to something more tempting asap.
The name " 20-29 Bracket " has 20 in it. all vets should gtfo there and this sub forum should have its original name back.

 

[fatbellyzz]

This is an interesting topic I suppose. First off, the F2P section in my experience as a moderator was relatively free of animosity (ignoring those who created accounts for the sole reason of harassing the community) in general and I would expect that leaving the sections joined wouldn't result in any issues.

Being that I currently don't have a vested interest in the bracket I would say that I have a minimal amount of bias. Currently my understanding is that veteran players gear up like the 24s of the past and thus I would suggest that you treat the communities as the two communities have been in the past. Obviously since you (Myrm) created the thread you are not totally opposed to splitting the forums.

It is my belief that splitting the forums would create more genuine discussion. Let's say a user feeling frustrated by a series of unlucky WSGs posts a comment along the lines of, "Ugh sometimes I wish things were back in the cata days where not every game was dominated by those scum vet accs." Seeing this a proud veteran account player then makes a comment about how the first user wouldn't be able to win a WSG vs a team full of lvl 5s. One can see where I'm going with this: the thread degenerates into a back and forth where no discussion occurs and the topic is completely forgotten.

Obviously this is a hypothetical situation but it's not unreasonable to suggest that in the event that the two communities were separate such a confrontation might never occur because either party might not even have seen the thread in the first place. People who want to see all the threads are not restricted in doing so, they simply have to click a little bit more. With such threads not being derailed due to a difference in opinions more discussion can happen on a real and more specified level.

Activity-wise, let's be honest, there's more than enough activity in the F2P/Vet section to support two separate forums; some brackets don't see a single post for days.

personally i haven't seen any of that type of arguing lately up until this thread popped up

 

[Lanky]

That's my point

With so many transitioning to vet, the population is much lower. By reestablishing a trial section, we can actively communicate trial to trial. We can pick up the pieces, even semi-regular pugmades and arenas would be an improvement. We won't see the community on ti unless we consolidate what remains of it.

This feels like all talk, no show. How do you intend to pick up the pieces? And am I meant to wait for the section to be divided then see dedicated individuals "consolidate what remains of it"?

 

[Squidgy]

lol, good laugh. why do the ability to like post disappear at times?

You can only like a certain amount of posts per day.