Queues alread 9m long and growing :/
- Thread starter Krittykreme
- Start date
glancealot
Legend
if you have a choice between a 20 and 29 (which is true now, everyone has that choice), then playing a 20 is inferior to playing a 29. not saying the 20 cannot help his team win, but everything is relative.
but if you choose to play on 20 only due to financial (and other) reasons, i can still respect that (even though i have to tell you that you are contributing less than you would on a 29) and reassure you that if you have skills, the PVP experience is still fairly good when facing 29s.
but if you choose to play on 20 only due to financial (and other) reasons, i can still respect that (even though i have to tell you that you are contributing less than you would on a 29) and reassure you that if you have skills, the PVP experience is still fairly good when facing 29s.
Pexela
Veteran
Don't take this the wrong way but i don't think that's really the point anymore.
It's pretty well known that most vocal twinks in the bracket have subbed accounts. People like Crystalpall who valued their F2P to a point where they did everything without touching a sub are rare. Most of us are actually Vets.
The problem is not really how much we can contribute, 20s were ALWAYS inferior to 29s simply out of the nature of the bracket and how WoW designs classes. We are lower levels, on a game where your kit is tightly designed to function in a complete version. 29s have more stats and more buttons. It's that simple. The real problem is that the bracket game quality was always bad, and now it's so dogshit that we simply adapted elsewhere. When the whole xpoff merge became news, there were several long threads about that, and most of it devolved into shitflinging from either sides, and the ( in my opinion correct ) assertion by Chops that the 29s CANNOT keep a community up. Most twinks can't. 20F2P has had the blessing of being a extremely open bracket because of the nature of F2P, coupled with that population brimming the bracket with life, that makes the members of that community more prone to value the community and fight tooth and nail to keep it healthy. It's why in this site, the 20 section is the most popular.
Then, over night, we were tossed in a bracket with 29s, who most of them are rerollers, and they kept belitting us with things like "ADAPT OR DIE". And a lot of us decided to adapt...by playing PvE which has become quite expansive with the Shadowlands level squish. And then, the real crying started because the 29s realized that without the warm bodies and people that F2P had, they won't have flesh for their meatgrinders anymore. Amidst all that shit, they were foaming at the mouth for the possibility of rolling 29s to curbstomp us, and they weren't hiding it.
The pricing isn't the problem. The game is not worth the pricetag, and most of us like the challenge of being F2P. The game quality went to hell because of the 29s, who like i said, are incapable of maintaining a community, specially since now we don't have many warm bodies anymore. I'm sure they'll still get some, but the queue times are proof of what's happening to the bracket.
We decided to adapt...by being far away from them and finding our fun somewhere else in the game. And even when we do that, they still yell the same things at us. Why would we want to contribute? Why would we want to even queue? We don't like them. We don't care for them. The games won't get better, they'll get worse. Why wouldn't we just go find way better experiences by PvE'ing and wargaming?
The 20 community will still exist, even with this blow dealt to it, and besides the battleground part, 29s are NOT a part of it. So, yeah, i don't think contributing or being competitive with Hunter 29 rerollers is something we care about that much.
Dragpz
Grandfathered
Same here, I was kinda meh with WoW for a long time coming back for expansions once in a while, and playing F2P when I got bored. The thing is, I played during MoP/WoD as F2P, so I have nothing but bad memories as everyone was rolling their 29s into BGs and just crapping on F2Ps and levelers. I don't think I'll every want to do that again, so, yeah, not gonna buy this expansion either if they decide to leave this in
glancealot
Legend
the good geared and skilled 29s also crap on bad geared / unskilled 29s, not just the F2Ps and levelers.
the bad geared / unskilled 29s can somewhat go toe to toe against good 20s based on what i have seen.
i have 2,000 kills (solo queue) as a 29 made after the queue separation, so my sample size is credible.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/bleeding-hollow/glancetwo
Dragpz
Grandfathered
I spent 2 years in the 20-24s and 20-29s bracket, so there's nothing you can really say that will change my mind about 29s
glancealot
Legend
bracket is already active with 1 game going at anytime from 11am in the morning to mightnight-ish.
not "begging you to play so that games start popping" by any means.
just stating facts and observations.
not "begging you to play so that games start popping" by any means.
just stating facts and observations.
Dragpz
Grandfathered
Well if you're having fun great. The rest of us aren't so we're leaving the bracket. The bracket that's already been halved because Blizz decided to screw f2ps and vets
glancealot
Legend
i do admit there are a lot of 29 players with huge ego but no skill or even gear to back it up.
on the other hand, every single day i find some level 20 that impresses me.
here is a 20 hunter topping the DPS chart in WSG and helping his team win (ya, terrible loss for us)
on the other hand, every single day i find some level 20 that impresses me.
here is a 20 hunter topping the DPS chart in WSG and helping his team win (ya, terrible loss for us)
Depression
Veteran
I may get some hate for this, but there are a couple things I keep reading in a lot of these threads that's irritating me.
#1. The assumption that 29s have invaded the 20's bracket is incorrect. The F2P's and Vets used to be in the XP-ON bracket with levelers. It is in fact the 20's that have invaded the 29's bracket of XP-OFF. "Not that it matters which way it went."
#2. To say that no other twink bracket can keep a community together is a bit unfair. The F2P's and Vets have had the luxury of being in a bracket that has frequent "BG" queues with people just leveling through the bracket with XP-ON. If you afforded that same opportunity to any other bracket of twinks then all the brackets would be booming with their own respected games/twinks. "Not taking away from the actual community aspect of the F2P's and Vets. More so just pointing out that being able to have fast queues for games would entice any bracket to have more outreach and a proper community setup."
I do play my old 70 twink at level 29. I would not say that I'm taking one side over another in this argument. These are just things that bother me when I keep reading them everywhere. I'm just happy to be able to play an old toon again.
Cheers!
#1. The assumption that 29s have invaded the 20's bracket is incorrect. The F2P's and Vets used to be in the XP-ON bracket with levelers. It is in fact the 20's that have invaded the 29's bracket of XP-OFF. "Not that it matters which way it went."
#2. To say that no other twink bracket can keep a community together is a bit unfair. The F2P's and Vets have had the luxury of being in a bracket that has frequent "BG" queues with people just leveling through the bracket with XP-ON. If you afforded that same opportunity to any other bracket of twinks then all the brackets would be booming with their own respected games/twinks. "Not taking away from the actual community aspect of the F2P's and Vets. More so just pointing out that being able to have fast queues for games would entice any bracket to have more outreach and a proper community setup."
I do play my old 70 twink at level 29. I would not say that I'm taking one side over another in this argument. These are just things that bother me when I keep reading them everywhere. I'm just happy to be able to play an old toon again.
Cheers!
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Dragpz
Grandfathered
#1 - Since the dawn of F2P/Vet, there have always been more 20s doing PVP than 29s. That is a fact. Most people have not played their 29s until this change. But you're right it doesn't matter which way it went.
#2 - That's the thing: "IF". If exp-on and off were combined we would see more people doing whatever in whatever-else bracket. However, 20s Bracket would still be the MOST popular PVP/twink bracket, simply because all the F2Ps/Vets play there
Depression
Veteran
This may be a bit incorrect. If XP-ON and XP-OFF brackets were combined then we would still be at the same cross-roads we are currently at where F2P's/Vets don't want to play or queue because they are up against the 29 twinks. With that being said the F2P/Vet 20's may still be very popular for PVE twinking, but to say they would still be the top played twink bracket all-together would probably be incorrect since most will not play/queue with current setup of 29's being in the bracket.
Dragpz
Grandfathered
Yes, it is a bit incorrect. When I say "20s bracket", I mean 20-29s, not just 20s. Meaning the 20-29's community will still be the most popular because it will consist of Levelers + F2Ps + Vets + 29s. Every other bracket will not even touch how popular the 20-29s bracket will be, even if the queue were combined
edit: And there were actually times when the queues were combined, and the 20-29s/20-24s bracket was still by far the most popular
icehawk
The Beast Within
The simple fact is, what’s the point of having cc, slows, heals etc if u can get killed in 1 shot?
The whole fun of PvP has been taken away because it renders all the abilities useless if u don’t get to use them.
So long as this is the case, you will always lose a lot of people from bg’s.
The whole fun of PvP has been taken away because it renders all the abilities useless if u don’t get to use them.
So long as this is the case, you will always lose a lot of people from bg’s.
glancealot
Legend
True, the culprit is the bursty meta. Hopefully DF scaling fixes that.
But if it's fixed...then whirlwind warrior and healers would be stupidly OP...(WW warrior already OP).
There is no perfect solution.
Srs
Legend
the effective expansion cap at 20 phenomenon is special to the 20s bracket. it has allowed for the existence of 20s twinks of various kinds as well as twinks of other levels are able to get games as consequence. however, if level 20 twinks did not exist, there would be no special draw 29s to the bracket over any other bracket, therefore in the 20s bracket, level 20 characters have special primacy: that is, if no 20s, then no 29s.
therefore, 20s have the authentic existence in the bracket, given that the reason they are there in great number is to take advantage of the situation blizzard created in which you don't have have to pay the upkeep on subscription at all times just to play at 20. 29s take advantage of the 20s hard work in establishing a real community, and are merely there as opportunistic, sap-sucking trolls who leech games off of the 20s community, and sully the bracket with their presence.
you are simply lying to yourself if you believe that these people would be in the bracket at all without such an opportunity to troll.
we've all seen this play out before, and due to that dark period in time, 24–29s are forever so disgusting to my eyes that i can barely even bring myself to look at them—even on wrath classic. i would rather quit the game entirely than share community space with such immature, shortsighted morons.
therefore, 20s have the authentic existence in the bracket, given that the reason they are there in great number is to take advantage of the situation blizzard created in which you don't have have to pay the upkeep on subscription at all times just to play at 20. 29s take advantage of the 20s hard work in establishing a real community, and are merely there as opportunistic, sap-sucking trolls who leech games off of the 20s community, and sully the bracket with their presence.
you are simply lying to yourself if you believe that these people would be in the bracket at all without such an opportunity to troll.
we've all seen this play out before, and due to that dark period in time, 24–29s are forever so disgusting to my eyes that i can barely even bring myself to look at them—even on wrath classic. i would rather quit the game entirely than share community space with such immature, shortsighted morons.
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Conzil
F2P Legend
There was no level 29 bracket before the change, the F2P's and Vets created it when they moved. Nobody had a geared level 29 twink before the change, they invaded our new bracket after the change.