Purj's PTR Enchant Findings

[Trijea]

For sure this is the reason why I was thinking that mongoose would be superior as the bonus agility and haste are full potential :3

how is that supposed to make sense, every bonus damage you get from mongoose is affected by resilience just like ef procs while also being reduced by armor even further, you dont even remotely get the "full potential" of the mongoose proc.
the agility from mongoose gives u about 15% crit (~20% for sub) and 16.7 dps for 15 seconds before armor and resilience. ef procs for 80-95 after resilience in assassination spec every ~6 seconds and isnt affected by armor. in addition losing tot nullifies every benefit u get from mongoose while it doesnt affect ef as long as you get to hit your target from time to time.

 

[Mocha]

how is that supposed to make sense, every bonus damage you get from mongoose is affected by resilience just like ef procs while also being reduced by armor even further, you dont even remotely get the "full potential" of the mongoose proc.
the agility from mongoose gives u about 15% crit (~20% for sub) and 16.7 dps for 15 seconds before armor and resilience. ef procs for 80-95 after resilience in assassination spec every ~6 seconds and isnt affected by armor. in addition losing tot nullifies every benefit u get from mongoose while it doesnt affect ef as long as you get to hit your target from time to time.

Let me remind you: I am not on the PTR. No need to be rude... >.>

Anyways I understand your reasoning, however I feel that the bonuses granted by Mongoose may outweigh the effect of elemental force. +90 Agility and +22 Haste vs a damage proc of only 62 - 72 damage. Deadly poison does more damage than this. This is the MOST Elemental force can hit on a target with 40% resilience. Most players in the bracket have OVER 40% resilience so chances are elemental force will be hitting for around 57 - 66 damage at an average of 45% base resil. (in 5.4 resil will be even more than this which will reduce EF by about 5 points on both sides once again depending on your target's enchants.

In terms of keeping ToT I have yet to experience any issues keeping on my target for 15 seconds.

As for elemental force's proc rate- this is the only thing that would keep it as an arguably top notch enchant. The damage proc isn't much but yet it does add up and therefore may be the victor. 10 ppm is insane.

However let's argue that mongoose procs off of your first ambush. Your second one will guaranteed hit for a bonus of more than 100 damage points, the increased haste is crucial if timed with lifeblood for energy regen and the obvious thistle tea making eviscerates for more than 1100. That is a LOT of burst. That would put a rogue's attack power well into the 600s for 15 seconds. Some rogues will be over 700 attack power just from the bonuses of mongoose in our bracket in 5.3. During 5.4 when everyone is rocking way more attack power ( my guess is rogues will have around 700-900 attack power unbuffed ) an enchant bonus for 60 damage isn't going to mean anything at all compared to another increase of +90 agility on proc.

@Trijea

​

Either way I'm not going to sit here and argue with people about what may possibly come to our bracket as a) I'm not on the PTR to run numbers and b) There's no point in doing so. I was merely speaking as what may possibly be better, I didn't say "EF sucks mongoose #1 noob" or anything by that means.

Cheers.

 

[grathlong]

how is that supposed to make sense, every bonus damage you get from mongoose is affected by resilience just like ef procs while also being reduced by armor even further, you dont even remotely get the "full potential" of the mongoose proc.
the agility from mongoose gives u about 15% crit (~20% for sub) and 16.7 dps for 15 seconds before armor and resilience. ef procs for 80-95 after resilience in assassination spec every ~6 seconds and isnt affected by armor. in addition losing tot nullifies every benefit u get from mongoose while it doesnt affect ef as long as you get to hit your target from time to time.

Trijea come on now why do you always put people on the defensive. Maybe make constructive comments, usually better to make allies than enemies.

 

[Trijea]

Let me remind you: I am not on the PTR. No need to be rude... >.>

Anyways I understand your reasoning, however I feel that the bonuses granted by Mongoose may outweigh the effect of elemental force. +90 Agility and +22 Haste vs a damage proc of only 62 - 72 damage. Deadly poison does more damage than this. This is the MOST Elemental force can hit on a target with 40% resilience. Most players in the bracket have OVER 40% resilience so chances are elemental force will be hitting for around 57 - 66 damage at an average of 45% base resil. (in 5.4 resil will be even more than this which will reduce EF by about 5 points on both sides once again depending on your target's enchants.

In terms of keeping ToT I have yet to experience any issues keeping on my target for 15 seconds.

As for elemental force's proc rate- this is the only thing that would keep it as an arguably top notch enchant. The damage proc isn't much but yet it does add up and therefore may be the victor. 10 ppm is insane.

However let's argue that mongoose procs off of your first ambush. Your second one will guaranteed hit for a bonus of more than 100 damage points, the increased haste is crucial if timed with lifeblood for energy regen and the obvious thistle tea making eviscerates for more than 1100. That is a LOT of burst. That would put a rogue's attack power well into the 600s for 15 seconds. Some rogues will be over 700 attack power just from the bonuses of mongoose in our bracket in 5.3. During 5.4 when everyone is rocking way more attack power ( my guess is rogues will have around 700-900 attack power unbuffed ) an enchant bonus for 60 damage isn't going to mean anything at all compared to another increase of +90 agility on proc.

@Trijea

​

Either way I'm not going to sit here and argue with people about what may possibly come to our bracket as a) I'm not on the PTR to run numbers and b) There's no point in doing so. I was merely speaking as what may possibly be better, I didn't say "EF sucks mongoose [URL=http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] noob" or anything by that means.

Cheers.

i wasnt trying to be rude i was just pointing out flaws in your argument. u dont have to be on the ptr to see that

ef procs for 80-95 and crits for 180, thats significantly more than what mongoose gives u. i also dont know what made u think that people will have more resilience in 5.4, they wont
those numbers are wrong again, 90 agility gives u about 90 bonus damage on ambush before armor reduction while ef has atleast 2 guaranteed procs on your first 2 hits, thats ~175-350+ damage depending on crits and it ignores armor. expecting a proc on your first ambush is also a little far fetched given the awful proc chance mongoose has

again, i didnt mean to be rude and i didnt read ur post as "ef sucks mongoose #1 noob" post, i just saw the flaws in ur logic and wanted to point them out for people looking for information on 5.4 enchants. this site is called twinkinfo after all. no offence intended

[MENTION=20412]grathlong[/MENTION] feel free to explain how my post wasnt constructive, or just stop trolling me

 

[grathlong]

i wasnt trying to be rude i was just pointing out flaws in your argument. u dont have to be on the ptr to see that

ef procs for 80-95 and crits for 180, thats significantly more than what mongoose gives u. i also dont know what made u think that people will have more resilience in 5.4, they wont
those numbers are wrong again, 90 agility gives u about 90 bonus damage on ambush before armor reduction while ef has atleast 2 guaranteed procs on your first 2 hits, thats ~175-350+ damage depending on crits and it ignores armor. expecting a proc on your first ambush is also a little far fetched given the awful proc chance mongoose has

again, i didnt mean to be rude and i didnt read ur post as "ef sucks mongoose #1 noob" post, i just saw the flaws in ur logic and wanted to point them out for people looking for information on 5.4 enchants. this site is called twinkinfo after all. no offence intended

[MENTION=20412]grathlong[/MENTION] feel free to explain how my post wasnt constructive, or just stop trolling me

I am not trolling you. On at least 5 of my posts and tons of other people's you basically just come off as a being a smart$$$...
Offer it in a different way instead of your wrong I'm right because I know everything....

 

[grathlong]

i wasnt trying to be rude i was just pointing out flaws in your argument. u dont have to be on the ptr to see that

ef procs for 80-95 and crits for 180, thats significantly more than what mongoose gives u. i also dont know what made u think that people will have more resilience in 5.4, they wont
those numbers are wrong again, 90 agility gives u about 90 bonus damage on ambush before armor reduction while ef has atleast 2 guaranteed procs on your first 2 hits, thats ~175-350+ damage depending on crits and it ignores armor. expecting a proc on your first ambush is also a little far fetched given the awful proc chance mongoose has

again, i didnt mean to be rude and i didnt read ur post as "ef sucks mongoose #1 noob" post, i just saw the flaws in ur logic and wanted to point them out for people looking for information on 5.4 enchants. this site is called twinkinfo after all. no offence intended

[MENTION=20412]grathlong[/MENTION] feel free to explain how my post wasnt constructive, or just stop trolling me

And you quoted [MENTION=6446]Mocha[/MENTION] 's post not mine.

 

[Trijea]

I am not trolling you. On at least 5 of my posts and tons of other people's you basically just come off as a being a smart$$$...
Offer it in a different way instead of your wrong I'm right because I know everything....

i dont see a reason to be extra nice when im sharing information. im not begging u or anyone to take my advice, take it or leave it

i quoted mocha because i replied to his post, only the last sentence was to u

 

[Mocha]

i wasnt trying to be rude i was just pointing out flaws in your argument. u dont have to be on the ptr to see that

ef procs for 80-95 and crits for 180, thats significantly more than what mongoose gives u. i also dont know what made u think that people will have more resilience in 5.4, they wont
those numbers are wrong again, 90 agility gives u about 90 bonus damage on ambush before armor reduction while ef has atleast 2 guaranteed procs on your first 2 hits, thats ~175-350+ damage depending on crits and it ignores armor. expecting a proc on your first ambush is also a little far fetched given the awful proc chance mongoose has

again, i didnt mean to be rude and i didnt read ur post as "ef sucks mongoose #1 noob" post, i just saw the flaws in ur logic and wanted to point them out for people looking for information on 5.4 enchants. this site is called twinkinfo after all. no offence intended

grathlong feel free to explain how my post wasnt constructive, or just stop trolling me

104-120 *.6 =/= 80 - 95 I don't understand how your math works out.

but if EF is apparently ignoring the 40% resilience reduction on the PTR like what your numbers suggest, you're correct.

 

[grathlong]

i dont see a reason to be extra nice when im sharing information. im not begging u or anyone to take my advice, take it or leave it

i quoted mocha because i replied to his post, only the last sentence was to u

Sharing information does not justify being a jerk, dunno what kind of twisted logic that is.

 

[Trijea]

104-120 *.6 =/= 80 - 95 I don't understand how your math works out.

but if EF is apparently ignoring the 40% resilience reduction on the PTR like what your numbers suggest, you're correct.

ef procs are affected by both assassins resolve and pvp power

[MENTION=20412]grathlong[/MENTION] im not justifying being a jerk, im just saying u dont have to read my posts if they are too rude for u

 

[grathlong]

ef procs are affected by both assassins resolve and pvp power

[MENTION=20412]grathlong[/MENTION] im not justifying being a jerk, im just saying u dont have to read my posts if they are too rude for u

Whatever.

 

[Donteventrii]

Searched "scope" found it mentioned 5 times but no mentioned. Wowhead PTR DB still has scopes with level requirements. Are they now only for application of the scopes, not for use?

 

[Swoops]

Searched "scope" found it mentioned 5 times but no mentioned. Wowhead PTR DB still has scopes with level requirements. Are they now only for application of the scopes, not for use?

Last I heard the scopes had the level requirement to apply but scaled down and worked fine at lower levels. They'll probably only be useable on BoAs for the time being though.

 

[Stale]

Question:

is the first post still up to the date?

Because if so, there's no scaling between level 19 up to level 60, as my findings for level 60 are identical.

I seriously hope they change that -.-

 

[Stale]

More shoulder enchants for you here:

Shoulder Enchants:

Gladiator: +11 Sta +6 PvP Resillience

Scryer Shoulder enchants:
of the Blade, +10 Crit, Greater +11 Crit, +15 AP
of the Knight +10 Dodge, Greater +11 Parry +8 Dodge
of the Orb, +10 Crit Greater, +11 Crit, +9 SP
of the Oracle +9 Spirit, Greater: +12 Spirit, +8 Int

Aldor:
of Discipline, +11 SP, Greater, +14 SP+8 Crit
of Faith. +11 SP, Greater, +11 Int, +8 Spirit
of Vengeance Greater, +22 AP, +8 Crit
of Warding +10 Dodge, Greater, +11 Dodge, +11 Stamina

WotLK shoulder enchants:
of the Storm: +9 SP, +6 Crit
of the Crag, +8 Int, +6 Spirit
of the Pinnacle, +8 Dodge, +8 Stamina
of the Axe +15 AP +6 Crit

 

[Purj]

Question:

is the first post still up to the date?

Because if so, there's no scaling between level 19 up to level 60, as my findings for level 60 are identical.

I seriously hope they change that -.-

1-60 scales the same. You can see the scalings in the googledocs.

 

[Stale]

1-60 scales the same. You can see the scalings in the googledocs.

That's just completely idiotic, I seriously hope they change that.

ZG Enchants and Naxx enchants must be crazy at level 1 now, since they haven't received any debuff.

 

[Trijea]

That's just completely idiotic, I seriously hope they change that.

ZG Enchants and Naxx enchants must be crazy at level 1 now, since they haven't received any debuff.

zg and naxx enchants were available at all levels a while ago and they werent crazy back then. also all vanilla enchants have the same values at 1-60, idk why scaled enchants should be different

 

[Stale]

It's in the name Tijea, scaled enchants.

It scales with your level and as we all know level 19 isn't level 60, that's 41 level differences.

60's lose -30% of their stats, level 19's gain +70% in stats.

Why don't they just scale it the same way as BoA's? Surely they already have the slider for most stats.

 

[Trijea]

It's in the name Tijea, scaled enchants.

It scales with your level and as we all know level 19 isn't level 60, that's 41 level differences.

60's lose -30% of their stats, level 19's gain +70% in stats.

Why don't they just scale it the same way as BoA's? Surely they already have the slider for most stats.

and they are scaled, expansion wise and not level wise. 19 = 60 in terms of expansions

there exists gear for every level, boas are gear, boas scale by level

there exist enchants for every expansion, enchants scale by expansion

its really not that hard unless u are trying to find something to complain about

i also dont know where u are pulling ur % from