Just wanted to say that BOA's or no BOA's, Dazzling longsward is still a no-go

[Medan]

because 39 twinks revolve around rogue vs rogue fights...

Who said it fucking did, no one. Go away, find another post to random post in, as you are not EU nor a rogue

so.. wait.. whats the problem again?

Maybe if you read the fucking thread you might know.





- The whole point of this thread was to discuss back and forth whether to keep the ban of DL or not. I only actually needed 1 other objective dude to discuss with, but even after 80 posts Iv only met random people saying stupid stuff like this. If there's any EU rogues out there that wants to state their opinion, don't be shy

 

[Subjection]

you guys need to stop arguing over trivial shit and just get your bracket active again. i'm surprised this is even an issue, l2prioritize.

 

[Splenda]

WHO ARE YOU



yo iz driving me sick

 

[Medan]

you guys need to stop arguing over trivial shit and just get your bracket active again. i'm surprised this is even an issue, l2prioritize.

Classic comment. Flame the ones that invest time in doing something free for others, because they don't do as much as you would have done if you had anything to do with it. But the ones you should blame for shit not being done good enough (in your eyes) is all the people that do exactly what you do, nothing.

 

[Subjection]

Classic comment. Flame the ones that invest time in doing something free for others, because they don't do as much as you would have done if you had anything to do with it.

i'd argue that you're doing it for the benefit of yourself, and that even if you weren't, i wouldn't consider banning DL a benefit to the bracket anyways. imagine reading the threads arguing about banning agm, boa's, ect as an outsider. what would you think about the bracket as a whole?

But the ones you should blame for shit not being done good enough (in your eyes) is all the people that do exactly what you do, nothing.

i don't play EU, but i've contributed a lot to the US side of the bracket. don't get me wrong, i'm hoping EU gets active again, but i don't see it happening if this is how you guys are going to go about it.

 

[Regulate]

you guys need to stop arguing over trivial shit and just get your bracket active again. i'm surprised this is even an issue, l2prioritize.

listen to this gent, just get the bracket goin 1st for the love of god!! please no more can/cant threads! sort it out after cos all this arguing (and dont tell me its a friendly discussion) is putting people off!

 

[Natepwncity]

If you're making this much of a fuss over a gimmick weapon that only a handful of players use, just wait til people start using free action potions while fc'ing, or people use sulfuron slammers to break poly, or fc's terrain exploit to escape your offense...your bracket hasn't even started yet and already you're killing it with these cans and cant's...sorry but in PuG matches, anything goes. That's just how it is, and it's the only way you'll get a large enough player base because many players are going to use whatever they can to win. Leave your rules and regulations to premades.



Typical premade rules include:

No outside buffs (from 80s, onyxia buff, etc.)

Only 2 per class, per team

No speed pots/faps/restorative pots/sulfuron slammers

No bombs above iron grenades

No terrain exploits (including graveyard jumps)



These are some of the only acceptable regulations and again, they only apply during premades as they will affect the validity of a win/loss if broken.

 

[Medan]

i'd argue that you're doing it for the benefit of yourself, and that even if you weren't, i wouldn't consider banning DL a benefit to the bracket anyways. imagine reading the threads arguing about banning agm, boa's, ect as an outsider. what would you think about the bracket as a whole?



i don't play EU, but i've contributed a lot to the US side of the bracket. don't get me wrong, i'm hoping EU gets active again, but i don't see it happening if this is how you guys are going to go about it.

I know exactly what you mean about the discussions that are going on now. Its very UN pro and gives it all a bad image (yes it does), but they are still discussions that needs to be had, and its so much better to have them now BEFORE we advertise to the outsiders then after. That's why we try to discuss as much as possible now.



- I'm not attacking your engagement to the 39 bracket, but your attack towards the people that try to bring 39 in EU back. If your gonna slap someone, don't slap the ones that try, slap the ones that doesn't even try. We have a plan on how to do it.



Would I bother to keep replying the same stuff over and over and over to ppl that don't read the whole thread if I weren't a rogue? No, but I shoulda, cus someone else most definitely would, and they might have a high temper.

Would I understand the negativeness that DL brings if I weren't a rogue? Yes, just as all the other people in Cyclone did.

If someone else made this post and I as a rogue would read it, would I understand the point of not using it? Yes

Do I get any rogues from EU stating their opinion? Not yet, but I do get allot of non rogues for some reason.

 

[Medan]

If you're making this much of a fuss over a gimmick weapon that only a handful of players use, just wait til people start using free action potions while fc'ing, or people use sulfuron slammers to break poly, or fc's terrain exploit to escape your offense...your bracket hasn't even started yet and already you're killing it with these cans and cant's...sorry but in PuG matches, anything goes. That's just how it is, and it's the only way you'll get a large enough player base because many players are going to use whatever they can to win. Leave your rules and regulations to premades.



Typical premade rules include:

No outside buffs (from 80s, onyxia buff, etc.)

Only 2 per class, per team

No speed pots/faps/restorative pots/sulfuron slammers

No bombs above iron grenades

No terrain exploits (including graveyard jumps)



These are some of the only acceptable regulations and again, they only apply during premades as they will affect the validity of a win/loss if broken.

Again, your the one bringing BG into this, the DL discussion has always been a arena debate.

 

[Medan]

listen to this gent, just get the bracket goin 1st for the love of god!! please no more can/cant threads! sort it out after cos all this arguing (and dont tell me its a friendly discussion) is putting people off!

This is how we planed it:

1) Sort out the discussion BEFORE IT STARTS so the arguments only piss off as few as possible. When people has agreed or when any more discussion wont help anything, we consider the matter closed. Why is it closed? Because arguing any more about it wont change anything, so ther's no point in making lvl 1's and QQing or making posts and QQing after! That means less QQ when it starts and more <3 <3 between the guilds. (wich we need cus of the size of the bracket)

2) After the discussions some people from Twinkinfo start up their guilds and start playing. When we have enough people playing we wil reach out to the people outside Twinkinfo.

3) The people can then enjoy a peaceful community with guilds already in place



- Ps, I'm trying my best to keep it a friendly discussion, but I get pissed off at times.

 

[Subjection]

they are still discussions that needs to be had, and its so much better to have them now BEFORE we advertise to the outsiders then after. That's why we try to discuss as much as possible now.

I disagree. It's impossible to uphold any rules you do come up with, and I think the process of establishing the rules you want will continue to damage the bracket. Obviously premades are a different story, but as far as public play goes, I think you're just doing yourself a disservice here.

I'm not attacking your engagement to the 39 bracket, but your attack towards the people that try to bring 39 in EU back. If your gonna slap someone, don't slap the ones that try, slap the ones that doesn't even try. We have a plan on how to do it.

I'm not "attacking" people because they're trying to revive the bracket, I'm attacking the methods I've seen here so far. As said above, you're just hurting yourselves with this can do/can't do shit.

Would I bother to keep replying the same stuff over and over and over to ppl that don't read the whole thread if I weren't a rogue? No, but I shoulda, cus someone else most definitely would, and they might have a high temper.

Would I understand the negativeness that DL brings if I weren't a rogue? Yes, just as all the other people in Cyclone did.

If someone else made this post and I as a rogue would read it, would I understand the point of not using it? Yes

Do I get any rogues from EU stating their opinion? Not yet, but I do get allot of non rogues for some reason.

i'm not going to argue about the DL (even though I completely disagree with the ban you guys are after), as stated before i think this thread really isn't helping your bracket at all. GL though.

 

[Natepwncity]

Again, your the one bringing BG into this, the DL discussion has always been a arena debate.

In arena, RvR is won more often by whoever gets the opener, not whoever gets a sword proc. (to which you shouldn't complain, darn human racials >.<)



I bring BGs up because that's where the heavy debates are in US 39s, and they achieve nothing except for a stalemate argument and the deterrence of new players. Likewise, trying to set rules for the bracket before it even starts is just going to limit your player base. If you want to regulate arenas, set up a 2v2 or 3v3 tournament. Otherwise, just play the game, and get your bracket started before you try to slap on silly rules.







EDIT:

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Undermine&cn=Jackblakk

My rogue, and yes, I use DLS.

 

[Medan]

In arena, RvR is won more often by whoever gets the opener, not whoever gets a sword proc.



I bring BGs up because that's where the heavy debates are in US 39s, and they achieve nothing except for a stalemate argument and the deterrence of new players. Likewise, trying to set rules for the bracket before it even starts is just going to limit your player base. If you want to regulate arenas, set up a 2v2 or 3v3 tournament. Otherwise, just play the game, and get your bracket started before you try to slap on silly rules.

That (opener wins in RvR) wasn't necessarily the case in our bracket. This was probably mostly because no one wanted to use DL and most people had AGM. If DL is used, it will, however, be the case. That's why we don't want it to be like that! lol. The one that opens GETS the sword proc, and even though he might not get it more then 90% of the time, its still fucked up high.

I'm not only talking about RvR but any team with a rogue in it against a team with another rogue. Its similar, the opener has an advantage. But with DL he has, like in 1v1, a MUCH higher chance to win based on it.



So basically, if your a rogue, suck so much you have absolutely no chance what so ever to win if you get opened on (thus, it doesn't matter if your opponent uses DL since you'll lose anyways) and has to rely on getting the opener and the wep proccing on the opener to even have a chance to win, Then I guess someone would use it.

If you DONT suck however and actually CAN win a match without get'n opener and a DL proc, you don't use DL. Why? Because if you use, your opponent uses and it doesn't matter how good you are. The one that gets the first proc wins.



-Ps, I have never tried to set up rules for the bracket, I did not make the BOA/agm threads (Although instead of refusing them I suggested they have a more spesific rule towards each individual class/spec).

I am, however, guilty in trying to share my and Cyclones view regarding DL on a Rogue.



-Ps2, I don't blame you in using DL, Jack, I mean, if everyone else uses it you might have to. But that's what were trying to avoid. Would you still use it if no other rogue in the whole bracket used it? (please answer yes/no)

 

[Natepwncity]

Would you still use it if no other rogue in the whole bracket used it? (please answer yes/no)

I use DLS w/ a weapon chain knowing that it is a gimmick against other stealthers/classes that disarm. I'd still use it even if I was the only one in the entire bracket using it because it's too good not to use. If there was only one warrior in the bracket with a PoD, do you think he'd stop using it because it's been deemed "too OP"? Arena already has enough limitations on what you can/can't do just through game mechanics, any item usable in arena should be fair game. If you choose not to use it to keep your "honor" or w/e, that's your perogative.

 

[Medan]

I use DLS w/ a weapon chain knowing that it is a gimmick against other stealthers/classes that disarm. I'd still use it even if I was the only one in the entire bracket using it because it's too good not to use. If there was only one warrior in the bracket with a PoD, do you think he'd stop using it because it's been deemed "too OP"? Arena already has enough limitations on what you can/can't do just through game mechanics, any item usable in arena should be fair game. If you choose not to use it to keep your "honor" or w/e, that's your perogative.

You can have weapon chain on another wep, but you cant possibly compare one warrior with POD against one rogue with DL. Its not hard for a rogue to get DL and it only affects his own class. Unlike PoD witch only affects opponents.

Don't compare: Shooting your selves and every rogue in the foot cus you cant run fast

with: Someone using PoD against his enemies.



Go log on your rogue and gank low lvls

 

[elocon]

You cant decide what to compare or not anymore medan

 

[Medan]

You cant decide what to compare or not anymore medan

its a figure of speech. I cant tell people what to compare and not. But somethings cant be compared.

What do you think anyways, after all that's what this thread is made for. Looks to me like you agree with him

 

[Splenda]

My only concern is that, no matter how much you discuss these weapon restrictions, i doubt that people will follow them that much anyway. I'll do my best to follow them, tough.

 

[Medan]

My only concern is that, no matter how much you discuss these weapon restrictions, i doubt that people will follow them that much anyway. I'll do my best to follow them, tough.

We will see. We actually had 1 rogue using it in Cyclone, he also left every arena he got opened on.

 

[Seffy]

I've always taken the approach of maxing out my utility without breaking the game mechanics.



I say when it comes to duels and arenas you stick to the base abilities of your class. If it's not usable in arena - it's not usable in duels.



Fairie Fire is a class ability of druids - it is also activated on the players descression - through a DECISION.



DLS is proc based - it is completely RNG based. Of course all of WoW is rng based, but this element of rng is reasonably high - and once it does proc it is a rogue killer. A rogue without his vanish has no tools to avoid magical burst, or snares. Those players should ask themselves if they feel if this damages the game mechanic. To me it certainly does, and is one reason why druid arena teams are so broken vs rogue+other teams (excluding priest).



Rogues are strong in the bracket, but that's irrelevant - i'm into looking at what conserves the game mechanic. You must approach the debate with a more academic view point, through higher level thought we can reach conclusions on what is and is not balanced.