EU 39 idea about Restoreing

[Medan]

Are we gonna come to a conclussion instead of arguing all day? Maybe start with posting this on all battlegroup forums?



The only real thing that's a big effort and big upgrade is agm.

That's probably the worst thing you can do now and it would probably fuck up everything, so please don't do that

IMO we need to convince them its gonna happen.

We cant make it sound like were unsure etc. Its very important that we state that its gonna happen. We could either say somethings in the line of:

"It will happen, we already have over 15 people that really wants to do this. If you want to be apart of it, you now have the chance"

or we could simply wait a bit more til we have more then 15 people that really wants to play, or even some people that already plays on x/y relm. and say something like this:

"It has happened, the EU 39 bracket has been restored. At the moment there is over 15 enthusiastic people playing activly on x/y relm. If you want more info about this bracket, witch truly is the best bracket, you can whisper any of these persons (names) for more info if you like. Funding and boosting are both available as long as you bring the player (this may not be available after we have reached a high enough number) "



-Personally I think the underlined is the best choice of the 2. We could use both approaches, but I have mixed feelings about using the underlined approach after the first one. IMO The first one isn't so good since it creates doubt, and if there's even a hint of doubt in what were doing it will be bad (I'm trying my best I can to explain in English, but its hard).

Very often a trigger is needed to change something that has been the same for a longer period (this is a fact). If the trigger isn't strong enough, it wont help anything (also a fact). We need a strong trigger to change the state of 39 and that's why I personally don't think its a good idea to post anything but the underlined approach.

The spark is twinkinfo and its "39 loving" members, that's what's gonna start the engine. First when it has started we can post on the forums and harvest twinks

 

[elocon]

Soo you mean all 19 that signed for the thread should start make a 39 twink and hopefully attract more poeple?



Gonna bring up bandages again, you have to edmit it's OP for rogue to be able to gouge and get full hp in that time. Should there be any restrictions there? if yes, what level of bandages should people be able to use?

 

[Seffy]

Reg you can settle for some vigorous spaulders .



For now (as a start), let's have:



1. No BOA's.

2. No AGM.

3. Tidal is allowed.

4. Lifeblood and gathering professions are allowed.

5. 300 Max first aid.

5. Super rares are allowed, PoD is not game changing. If someone managed to buy it off the AH so be it.





One thing I've also been considering is stealth levels. What do we think about asking Nelfs and Humans to drop a point in heightened senses or removing stealth from cape?



I'm glad that the general consensus is one that encourages balance.

 

[elocon]

300 max FA do you mean 300 skill like in you can use Netherweave Bandage (300) 2800 heal/8sec or Heavy Runecloth Bandages (225) 2000 heal/8sec?

 

[Seffy]

Well all the active racials are pretty even, bloodfury, smeld, EMFHS, WoTF etc, I was talking about balancing the passives so rogues have equal chance to find each other.



Human perception/Nelf is 1 active detection level/stealth level (+6), heightened senses is +3 per point, and stealth on cape is (+6) as I remember.

 

[Seffy]

I think heavy runecloth is the highest you can make with 300 first aid? 2000/8 healing is strong enough I think.

 

[elocon]

NO you can use Netherwave bandage (those req 300 FA skill, but req 330 to make)

 

[Seffy]

So heavy runecloth is the highest bandage you can make at 39? 290 skill right?

 

[elocon]

So heavy runecloth is the highest bandage you can make at 39? 290 skill right?

You can make heavy frostweave bandages on lvl 39...

It req 290 skill to make Heavy Runecloth bandages.

 

[Medan]

Soo you mean all 19 that signed for the thread should start make a 39 twink and hopefully attract more poeple?

I never said that, I said we need to start the engine before we bring the news. Before enough people start playing we wont attract the passive ones that are comfortable doing what they do atm.

How and when we start the engine is more or less up to the people here on twinkinfo. You could either be passive (like 99.999999% of the dudes on the wow forums would be) and wait til it has started before even considering going (back)to 39. OR you could

help us start the engine by actually making a 39 and start playing, so yes, basically, if you want shit to happen you gotta do something yourselves.

Judging by the response on twinkinfo, I believe we have enough people to start it. Judging by the bracket I believe we wont need to worry about attracting more people once once we do. You basically just need some faith in this for it to happen. What does your stomach tell you? Mine says the same as I voted in the pull "FUCK YEAH"

 

[Muqmuq]

Not usable in arena, we are talking about this from mainly an arena perspective. With regards to WSG I think it's perfectly acceptable for people to use their 'lol' professions.



These ideas are aimed at duelists and arena players!

I was talking about that juicy lens, couldnt care less about nades and death rays. IMO the lens is a big boost to sp wich allows casters to gear into more stats on other gearparts (for instance 12sta instead of 15sp on bracer) and casters (well can oly speak for mage really) end up with a lower health pool already. But sure, embalmed shroud isn't a bad alternative.



I believe that lying to people isn't the right way to establish this bracket, rerollers/transfers will find out pretty fast that they were being BS'ed and realise that they joined the bracket with false expactations. What you need is a motivated core of players to help the bracket grow. Something you can build on. People that transfer and find out there's nothing going on are probably not going to stay for very long. I remember us still getting transfers when MYL was nearly dead and non of these transfers were satisfied by what they got in return for their 20 bucks, I don't think this will be any different. If you want motivated players that are willing to help the bracket grow you gotta let them look into your cards. If you want players that expect everything to be handed on a plate to them only to find out that this is not the case, you should lie to them.



I might be wrong here but i guess that so far this thread is all just theory crafting. Before getting new players to join the bracket it could be a good idea to find out who exactly is interested and where they're planning on making their twinks (+classes?). A concrete number rather than an assumption based on this poll. If I read through this thread i see a lot of plans but they all seem very abstract. Before releasing this all on bg forums we should already have a core of 39's (you don't need that many players for arena matches) so that players who join the bracket will be able to join the action upon arrival.



The prof and gear restrictions aren't a bad idea. Now that we have the chance to balance the bracket we really should. However I think it's best if we only have those rules apply to arena. Twinks will always have the urge to get the best gear possible and we should allow them to do that. When building up a community I'm pretty sure that the initial smaller group of players will have the respect for their enemies to equip their more balanced arena set. When the bracket starts to grow I can see this being a source of drama.



If there's enough players interested in playing 39, I'lll be making a 39 on AA alliance. Peace out.

 

[Medan]

lol fuck the FA skill cap, just agree on wich we can use. Its not like Im gonna drop 450 FA, retake it and lvl to x.



I dont know how much runecloth costs, nor how much netherweave costs. But if I remember correctly netherweave is cheap as hell and instead of using HEAVY runecloth bandages that req 2 runecloth, we could use netherweave bandages.

Im up for suggestions though

Reg you can settle for some vigorous spaulders .



For now (as a start), let's have:



1. No BOA's.

2. No AGM.

3. Tidal is allowed.

4. Lifeblood and gathering professions are allowed.

5. 300 Max first aid.

5. Super rares are allowed, PoD is not game changing. If someone managed to buy it off the AH so be it.





One thing I've also been considering is stealth levels. What do we think about asking Nelfs and Humans to drop a point in heightened senses or removing stealth from cape?



I'm glad that the general consensus is one that encourages balance.

Super rares should be allowed yes, basically because that player would never agree on not using it. But it is wired that something that costs a million gold and possibly a server transfer should be allowed when things that only takes time is banned.

Basically you create a bracket where people with gold can get what they want, but the dedicated people cant.

The bracket needs the dedicated more then the average dude. I'm not 100% sure where I'm going with this, its just a discussion after all.



Don't mess with racial's, if someone has a twink already they chose a specific race for a reason. If someone doesn't have a twink yet they can chose whatever they want. Human racial is get'n a nerf if agm is denied, but they are still superior enough in a rogue v rogue fight because they can trinket every blind (share CD time)

 

[Seffy]

Len's are not being ruled out. Any profession is allowed, along with the gearing it allows.



The only requests i'd put out right now are the list i mentioned above.



1. No AGM's

2. No BoA's

3. Max of Heavy Runecloth first aid.

4. Everything else goes!



They are not complex requirements, and I'm sure anyone with any respect with regard to this bracket could easily accomodate this.

 

[elocon]

We never talking about some1 have to relevel FA since it dont give anything passive... but what bandage's that should be "standard".

Im not sure where your going with the dedication thing, medan but all those things seems to be allowed.

 

[Muqmuq]

I just mentioned the lens because you wanted to set the budget at around 500g, i'm pretty sure that is not accomplishable if you get engineering.

That looks like a very reasonable list though, this would really welcome rerollers.

 

[Seffy]

Are you online eloz, medan?

 

[elocon]

I can come online.

 

[Medan]

About gear restrictions:



If x class can chose between a drop that has less then 1% chance to drop or a BOA it already has. It should be able to use that BOA if its not way to OP.

If x class with x spec (like maybe Balance druid, I don't know) only works with BOA's and engineering lens, it should be able to use that.

If a BOA is not more then (for example) +5 stat better then the alternative it should not be considered game braking and be allowed.



and something I just thought of while writing this witch I think is pretty clever ifyoudontlikeit

If someone chooses to take off (for example) both rings, he can use AGM. Remember, by using AGM you can not use the other shield trinket, nor any other trinket in that slot. Basically making AGM less OP and making it easier for people that already got it to accept the restrictions concerning AGM. Remember we want as many people as possible, we have to meet mid way or some people would just refuse.

 

[elocon]

soo you mean you dont wanna drop agm?

 

[Seffy]

Medan stop complicating things. No AGM full stop!



No BOA's full stop! You do not need BOA's and they are a gear advantage of those without mains at the server. This is mind numbingly simple to understand, I don't know why people are questioning it.



We can't enforce complex rules like "well if you unequip 2 rings you can use AGM". It just wont make sense to a lot of people, and AGM is ridiculously OP for some classes anyhow.



If people don't want to work with us, I'd rather people didn't come to the bracket, and if that means no bracket, that's fine. The goal is a sustainable bracket, if it's not sustainable, I don't care if we have 30 people rolling at once and breaking all the rules, it's just pointless.