Do you honestly have fun as a F2P in 20-24 battlegrounds?

Are 20-24 battlegrounds fun as a F2P?

  • Yes, I enjoy putting up with constant bullshit in order to get 1 acceptable game every few days!

    Votes: 31 56.4%
  • No, I've finally come to terms with the fact that BGs in this bracket are laughably broken

    Votes: 24 43.6%

  • Total voters
    55
Guide to Arena:
-Class combos: Most of the time on AP, your team won't have an ideal class combo (whether intentionally or not) because there are a limited number of people willing to play and we're just trying to get games going. Whatever the combo is have a plan in mind to maximize each players utility. Have a kill target in mind, work out who you're going to sheep/fear/root etc.
-Don't overextend. Unless you're really really really impatient and are willing to risk it, wait for the enemy team to come to you. Most of the time its easier and leaves your group less susceptible to bursty openers. In the situations where its not, someone more experienced in your team will likely speak up.
-Awareness. Probably the most important thing in arenas. You have to learn to know whats going on. Who on your team is targeting who, who on your team is getting targeted, are they planning to burst anyone, do your mage and healer still have plenty of mana, do THEIR mage and healer still have plenty of mana? A lot of the time going in with a plan can only get you so far. The enemy team has a plan as well and adjusting to it is one of the key parts of optimal arena play.
-Know what the enemy team can use against you. Just like you have CCs and burst and are using them to maximize your utility, so will they. You have to be anticipating their openers, CC targets, kill target, hard switches, etc.
-Keeping your healer alive. Probably one of the most important things. You have to know when to use peels (slows or any other CC that will get the enemy melee off your healer), LoS, and hard target swapping to give your healer some breaks. Vent helps a lot for this, especially if you don't have the highest level of situational awareness, because your healer can just call out when he needs help.
-Keeping the other healer locked down or focusing him. The other healer is what you need to get through in order to win. In some cases, you're team might have enough dps to just completely ignore the healer but when you're in that situation you'll probably just win anyway. A lot of classes have interrupts and CCs. All of these are in the game to be utilized. If you're new to arena and not sure when is the best time to use them, try asking someone in your group that isn't as new. He might have a better idea of how your team should time them and whether you should try and lock out or just burn the enemy healer. This is a very helpful macro that you can use to interrupt a healer or other caster without switching your target: /cast [target=focus] Wind Shear
-Be careful with how you use your trinket and other important CDs. Don't take this as me saying don't use them, because you should. You just need to know when the best times to use them are. Trinket in f2p has a 5 minute cooldown time which is huge. Most of the time it means you'll only be able to use it once in a game.
-Exploit the enemy team. This isn't some cruel tactic and the other team will be doing it as well whether you realize it or not. Some classes are weaker than others and some players are weaker than others. This holds true at max level and in f2p. If they have a particularly weak player (whether it be because of skill or gear) you'll be able to see it almost immediately. He'll be ignoring a lot of the concepts mentioned above and many times, because of this, he can almost be ignored himself. Unless they're playing a ret which is going to hurt no matter how bad you are, weaker players are generally less of a threat than a stronger one. They won't be as familiar with how to position or handle burst and will be completely lost with target swaps. This holds to your advantage. Also, some classes are just easier to kill than others (resulting in them being called squishy). A lock or enhancement sham is going to get torn up by a feral druid or fury war sitting on them. Learn which classes are more vulnerable to burst etc.
-Line of Sight. It can be to your advantage and disadvantage. I'm really tempted to write up a guide on the individual arenas just because line of sight is so important and people should really know how it varies from arena to arena. If the enemy team has a lot of casters line of sight is usually good for you (if you have a lot, the opposite). Healers can jump into sight when they need to throw up an earth shield or flash of light and jump back behind the pillar for protection afterwards. As a dps, you need to be aware of your LoS to your healer. A healer can't heal you if you constantly run back and forth around pillars chasing the druid in cheetah form that you'll never be able to catch. There are lots of addons that can help you if you're having trouble with this; try asking around for them. Also, LoS doesn't just apply to pillars or other objects. Running BEHIND a mage/lock/balDruid etc right before they finish a cast means they can't hit you. Just realized as well, if you don't have show enemy cast bars on in your interface, turn it on. It helps a lot.
-Have fun, it will make you a better player. Believe it or not, you're going to lose. Most likely, a lot. Don't look at is as "Oh no this is all my fault I'm weighing down my team Cotus is the best mage in the world and we just lost its all my fault im gunna be hated by all of AP fuckkkk *ninja logs*" Whether you're losing or not, you're most likely picking up tricks that can be applied to every part of WoW (Yes, including your beloved battlegrounds. Ever wonder why the players that do arenas ARE the "better" players on AP?). Arenas are also a great time to get to know people. Hit up d@+ p@r+ii ch@+ N g3t deh L0Lz r0ll1ng 1N.

P.S. Google what diminishing returns are.
P.P.S. Don't be scared to just ask to join arenas. You might be intimidated by some of the "better" players, but most of them arn't scary. They're willing to give advice and understand that everyone has to start somewhere. Most of the time, teams will even be balanced around this understanding. Nobody plays arenas on AP because they enjoy face rolling. If you haven't picked up from this thread, arena players enjoy balance and competition and will balance teams around that.

Billow outttttttttttttttttttttttttttt.
 
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I wanted to respond to Zaxxo's post. I think he has some pretty valid points in it.

I think probably the best way to learn to arena is to just try it out. I won't lie, the first time I ever arena'd my heart was pumping and I was super nervous. It literally just took multiple times of me trying in order to learn. And I'm still learning / make noob mistakes all the time.

Most members on AP will be more accepting of new players' mistakes; obviously there are some that are impatient haha. I really think the best way to learn is through trial and error. I know when Veinte and I arena we often consider not only class balance but player experience balance so that we don't stack experienced versus inexperienced and so that helpful information can be passed along

However, I'd be happy to help form some sort of tutorial arenas. But like I said, play with some of us nicer folk and you'll likely ease into it. I would just love to have a larger base of people with which to do arenas. Take a chance!
 
Even with many 24s / huntard, I believe this is much better than 15-19 where everyone play holydin / rogue / hunter / priest.

15-19 games just happen to be more interesting as there you find old school twinkers, higher skill and more flag play (less GY farm).

But yeah on topic, I like FtP bracket =)
 
AP 9man going against a 24 premade: actually the most fun I've had in bgs in a long time.
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do you guys seriously think that the words that come after "Yes" and "No" have anything at all to do with the poll???? give me a break rofl

Personally, I've never gone into arena, mainly because of a complete lack of knowledge of what it is. I don't know whether it's an all out deathmatch, or objective based etc. One thing that I believe would help me personally to take up the idea of arenas would be sone sort of guide, what they are, basic tactics etc.

The other thing that holds me back, is that i always see what I consider to be the best AP players doing arenas, and I know i could not begin to compete with them with my character and skill level at the moment. To counter this problem, i have two ideas:
1. The 'elite' players give an almost tutoring session to the less skilled players, building their confidence and giving them advice. If you really wanted people to stop bg's and start arenas, i think this would help a lot.
2. The other is to start having arenas in which only the players that have not done arenas a lot participate in, therefore eliminating the hazard of being significantly outclassed, and of letting your team down.

If any of these things could happen, I know it would bring me to arena, and perchance many others as well. Also, I think it's important to never discourage a player, but instead to provide tips and support to help them improve.
~Zaxxo

you're not going to like this, but i'm going to re-write what you just said in more concrete and direct terms:

"i enjoy beating up players who are worse than me in BGs, because it's easy and it lets me feel good about myself. sure, these players oftentimes are playing on hunters and 24s, so it's difficult, but it still gives me the satisfaction that i'm better than them and even that i am better than them to the extent that i can still overcome them at a disadvantage. and even better, if or when i lose, i can just blame my failures on hunters, 24s, or bad teammates, and i can still feel good about myself.

i don't want to do arenas because it would mean that i have to play with people who are as good as me or better. i don't think that this would be fun because all i really want out of this silly game is to log in, mindlessly own some noobs, and chat with some nice people on AP. i don't actually want to put in any effort when i PvP, or any effort to get better, because honestly these things aren't really relevant to my enjoyment."

you are not alone - many people (i would say MOST people) who play this game feel the same way as you. and there's nothing wrong with this. there is no difference between arena and BGs except, as you pointed out, the better players do arenas. it was nice of kablam to make his post, but i can tell you right now that there actually.....aren't any differences between BGs and arena as far as proper gameplay goes. it's just the same thing, only you have to actually pay attention and know what you're doing, because there aren't 9 or 14 other people to carry you or blame things on.

i tell people to arena because i see them bitch and whine about all the problems in this bracket, and arena solves all these problems that they complain about. honestly, i don't particularly care if you arena or not - i'm just trying to be nice and solve your problems for you because you refuse to solve them yourselves. so you see, you have to make a choice - whether or not you want to PvP in this bracket and avoid all the obnoxious imbalances, but have to put in a little more effort to do so, or just keep on chugging in BGs, sometimes getting what you want, but most of the time just being annoyed at this silly bracket.

i know it's not an easy call - i'm just here to help give you that choice!

edit: quoted the wrong guy, but you guys all think like this, so i really don't feel bad
 
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and another thing - nobody said that arenas were the only option to avoid the laughably stupid BGs in this bracket. i don't even mention arenas in the original post of this thread, or anywhere in the poll. they're just the EASIEST one, and one with the most streamlined and balanced format.

with all the people on AP, you guys could easily organized world pvp on a regular, even daily basis. a time could be set once or twice a day where everyone meets at a location (we always did barrens back in the day) and engages in either free-for-all or set team world pvp. you would even get honor for this! (since everyone in this community seems determined to ignore goldendays and his method for easily obtaining full BOAs without BGing)

there are SO MANY WAYS to get around BGs in this bracket being a joke, while still having fun at pvp. it is YOUR CHOICE to do battlegrounds and fucking whine about it all the time and have a shitty time.
 
and another thing - nobody said that arenas were the only option to avoid the laughably stupid BGs in this bracket. i don't even mention arenas in the original post of this thread, or anywhere in the poll. they're just the EASIEST one, and one with the most streamlined and balanced format.

with all the people on AP, you guys could easily organized world pvp on a regular, even daily basis. a time could be set once or twice a day where everyone meets at a location (we always did barrens back in the day) and engages in either free-for-all or set team world pvp. you would even get honor for this! (since everyone in this community seems determined to ignore goldendays and his method for easily obtaining full BOAs without BGing)

there are SO MANY WAYS to get around BGs in this bracket being a joke, while still having fun at pvp. it is YOUR CHOICE to do battlegrounds and fucking whine about it all the time and have a shitty time.

explain good sir.
 
Guide to Arena:
-Class combos: Most of the time on AP, your team won't have an ideal class combo (whether intentionally or not) because there are a limited number of people willing to play and we're just trying to get games going. Whatever the combo is have a plan in mind to maximize each players utility. Have a kill target in mind, work out who you're going to sheep/fear/root etc.
-Don't overextend. Unless you're really really really impatient and are willing to risk it, wait for the enemy team to come to you. Most of the time its easier and leaves your group less susceptible to bursty openers. In the situations where its not, someone more experienced in your team will likely speak up.
-Awareness. Probably the most important thing in arenas. You have to learn to know whats going on. Who on your team is targeting who, who on your team is getting targeted, are they planning to burst anyone, do your mage and healer still have plenty of mana, do THEIR mage and healer still have plenty of mana? A lot of the time going in with a plan can only get you so far. The enemy team has a plan as well and adjusting to it is one of the key parts of optimal arena play.
-Know what the enemy team can use against you. Just like you have CCs and burst and are using them to maximize your utility, so will they. You have to be anticipating their openers, CC targets, kill target, hard switches, etc.
-Keeping your healer alive. Probably one of the most important things. You have to know when to use peels (slows or any other CC that will get the enemy melee off your healer), LoS, and hard target swapping to give your healer some breaks. Vent helps a lot for this, especially if you don't have the highest level of situational awareness, because your healer can just call out when he needs help.
-Keeping the other healer locked down or focusing him. The other healer is what you need to get through in order to win. In some cases, you're team might have enough dps to just completely ignore the healer but when you're in that situation you'll probably just win anyway. A lot of classes have interrupts and CCs. All of these are in the game to be utilized. If you're new to arena and not sure when is the best time to use them, try asking someone in your group that isn't as new. He might have a better idea of how your team should time them and whether you should try and lock out or just burn the enemy healer. This is a very helpful macro that you can use to interrupt a healer or other caster without switching your target: /cast [target=focus] Wind Shear
-Be careful with how you use your trinket and other important CDs. Don't take this as me saying don't use them, because you should. You just need to know when the best times to use them are. Trinket in f2p has a 5 minute cooldown time which is huge. Most of the time it means you'll only be able to use it once in a game.
-Exploit the enemy team. This isn't some cruel tactic and the other team will be doing it as well whether you realize it or not. Some classes are weaker than others and some players are weaker than others. This holds true at max level and in f2p. If they have a particularly weak player (whether it be because of skill or gear) you'll be able to see it almost immediately. He'll be ignoring a lot of the concepts mentioned above and many times, because of this, he can almost be ignored himself. Unless they're playing a ret which is going to hurt no matter how bad you are, weaker players are generally less of a threat than a stronger one. They won't be as familiar with how to position or handle burst and will be completely lost with target swaps. This holds to your advantage. Also, some classes are just easier to kill than others (resulting in them being called squishy). A lock or enhancement sham is going to get torn up by a feral druid or fury war sitting on them. Learn which classes are more vulnerable to burst etc.
-Line of Sight. It can be to your advantage and disadvantage. I'm really tempted to write up a guide on the individual arenas just because line of sight is so important and people should really know how it varies from arena to arena. If the enemy team has a lot of casters line of sight is usually good for you (if you have a lot, the opposite). Healers can jump into sight when they need to throw up an earth shield or flash of light and jump back behind the pillar for protection afterwards. As a dps, you need to be aware of your LoS to your healer. A healer can't heal you if you constantly run back and forth around pillars chasing the druid in cheetah form that you'll never be able to catch. There are lots of addons that can help you if you're having trouble with this; try asking around for them. Also, LoS doesn't just apply to pillars or other objects. Running BEHIND a mage/lock/balDruid etc right before they finish a cast means they can't hit you. Just realized as well, if you don't have show enemy cast bars on in your interface, turn it on. It helps a lot.
-Have fun, it will make you a better player. Believe it or not, you're going to lose. Most likely, a lot. Don't look at is as "Oh no this is all my fault I'm weighing down my team Cotus is the best mage in the world and we just lost its all my fault im gunna be hated by all of AP fuckkkk *ninja logs*" Whether you're losing or not, you're most likely picking up tricks that can be applied to every part of WoW (Yes, including your beloved battlegrounds. Ever wonder why the players that do arenas ARE the "better" players on AP?). Arenas are also a great time to get to know people. Hit up d@+ p@r+ii ch@+ N g3t deh L0Lz r0ll1ng 1N.

P.S. Google what diminishing returns are.
P.P.S. Don't be scared to just ask to join arenas. You might be intimidated by some of the "better" players, but most of them arn't scary. They're willing to give advice and understand that everyone has to start somewhere. Most of the time, teams will even be balanced around this understanding. Nobody plays arenas on AP because they enjoy face rolling. If you haven't picked up from this thread, arena players enjoy balance and competition and will balance teams around that.

Billow outttttttttttttttttttttttttttt.

I didn't read this but i'm assuming you want hunters nerfed so i will support this post
 
do you guys seriously think that the words that come after "Yes" and "No" have anything at all to do with the poll???? give me a break rofl



you're not going to like this, but i'm going to re-write what you just said in more concrete and direct terms:

"i enjoy beating up players who are worse than me in BGs, because it's easy and it lets me feel good about myself. sure, these players oftentimes are playing on hunters and 24s, so it's difficult, but it still gives me the satisfaction that i'm better than them and even that i am better than them to the extent that i can still overcome them at a disadvantage. and even better, if or when i lose, i can just blame my failures on hunters, 24s, or bad teammates, and i can still feel good about myself.

i don't want to do arenas because it would mean that i have to play with people who are as good as me or better. i don't think that this would be fun because all i really want out of this silly game is to log in, mindlessly own some noobs, and chat with some nice people on AP. i don't actually want to put in any effort when i PvP, or any effort to get better, because honestly these things aren't really relevant to my enjoyment."

Dude, if this is how you feel, then i seriously, and truly am sorry. Your opinion is completely your own, and i fully respect that, in fact i would never want it any other way. But I'm afraid that doesn't mean that it's my opinion. I regularly find myself outclassed in battlegrounds and so I never feel like 'I enjoy beating up players who are worse than me in BGs.' Whenever I die, instead of raging about 24's and hunters, i look at my ability bar, and think to myself which buttons i could have pressed to perchance win that fight. The same applies when I duel someone, I always ask afterwards what I could've done to maybe win. As a relatively new player to this game, I personally believe that I am still in the stage where i can learn from battlegrounds.

Now if you will consider reading my original post again, you will see that i said the main reason for not doing arenas is my lack of knowledge about them. Since I made that post, i have gone and looked into what they are, and feel more confident with them. In fact, I was considering joining one of them tonight if people would permit me.

Like I said, this post its not trying to change your opinion, it's informing you of mine, so hopefully you will come to accept that i don't think what 'I want out of this game is to mindlessly own some noobs,' but that I want to be able to have fun with others in games with competition in them, as i have come to accept your view that arenas are the best place for F2P's to have fun.

~Zaxxo
 
Dude, if this is how you feel, then i seriously, and truly am sorry. Your opinion is completely your own, and i fully respect that, in fact i would never want it any other way. But I'm afraid that doesn't mean that it's my opinion. I regularly find myself outclassed in battlegrounds and so I never feel like 'I enjoy beating up players who are worse than me in BGs.' Whenever I die, instead of raging about 24's and hunters, i look at my ability bar, and think to myself which buttons i could have pressed to perchance win that fight. The same applies when I duel someone, I always ask afterwards what I could've done to maybe win. As a relatively new player to this game, I personally believe that I am still in the stage where i can learn from battlegrounds.

Now if you will consider reading my original post again, you will see that i said the main reason for not doing arenas is my lack of knowledge about them. Since I made that post, i have gone and looked into what they are, and feel more confident with them. In fact, I was considering joining one of them tonight if people would permit me.

Like I said, this post its not trying to change your opinion, it's informing you of mine, so hopefully you will come to accept that i don't think what 'I want out of this game is to mindlessly own some noobs,' but that I want to be able to have fun with others in games with competition in them, as i have come to accept your view that arenas are the best place for F2P's to have fun.

~Zaxxo

why did you quote my post but not quote the part where i said that i accidentally quoted the wrong person? you are correct, the above paragraph was not meant to apply to you or what you said

but you sound like the kind of person who would really enjoy arenas! you think for yourself and want to get better. give it a shot, i'm sure the people on AP would be willing to teach you some pointers
 
Well now i just feel stupid. And that rant took ages to write :D
 
Howzabout I do one tonight, then tell everyone how awesome they are :D
 

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