Dirtynines, Developing the meta. A discussion on premade comps and strats.

[(Hass)]

Can we outlaw moran using his satellites too? I think this is an issue that should be talked about as well.

 

[Dime]

Like isn't FoF the spec to be now with 20% buff 25sec CD?

banning BM just means a spec change and 3-4 pieces of new gear.

 

[Laurenti]

I'm not going to respond in the continued argument about BM anymore, but I'll respond to this

The 19 TC was far from successful imo, it was plagued with an insane amount of issues, massive delays and rules changing on the fly, things that wouldn't have happened if the organization was better and people in charge of rules put more time into actually setting their rules in stone. There was even one point where games had to be delayed for over an hour because a team did something and the organizers sat there debating if it was allowed or not.

But you wouldn't know I guess, because you didn't participate in the cup (this isn't a shot at you, I'm just saying)

That's not the say everything was all bad, it was fun, just things on the organizational side could have been handled so much better. It's not something I (or anyone else who will be helping the 39 TC as far as I'm aware) want to be taking examples from, we want the 39 scene to become much better than 19s, and things will get banned out if we believe that will help us achieve that goal.

I don't disagree with your statements at all! I was very upset, from a viewers perspective, sitting in an airport watching the twinkcup in between my flights. Yes, the organizational aspects of the 19 TC could have been a lot better. However, the gameplay/casting/outcome was great. One thing that was nice about the TC was the lack of restrictions. Feral was banned, and arms/bm/marks hunters were limited to 1 of each spec. That was enough of a limit to prevent any ridiculous comps such as double bm, but at the same time allowed for some comp variety.

No shots taken, I did not play in the cup, but did watch parts of day 1 and 2, and the entire day 3 stream.

I understand that you want the 39 TC to be successful, but at the same time I think that banning classes pre-preemptively and unnecessarily is not a good way to go about things. That is all

 

[Snowjobs]

No need for personal insults, but k.

That's the thing! If you are going by the assumption that, "if you are slowed by a brewmaster, you are dead.', then yes, brewmaster is very broken. However, in premades there are these awesome things called healers, and they allow you to take damage, and then regain lost health!!! Getting hit by a bm slow is not the end of the world. If you get BM slowed, you are not instantly dead. If you get BM slowed, it does not mean that you lose the midfight.

When you get hit by a barrel, you have a choice: Do I use a mobility ability to get out of it/overcome it? Or do I sit in the slow, because it is not worth it to use mobility on a slow when I do not need to.

I will make the counter-argument that removing BM monks ( and their slow) from a wsg actually LOWERS the skillcap of everyone on the opposing team in the BG. They no longer have to make decisions about which barrel to gnome racial, which barrel to lust, or even which barrel to trinket. (if trinketing a barrel slow is the difference between winning a game and losing one, or even the difference between being up or down a cap, you bet that trinket CD was worth it). Therefore, playing their class just lost a mechanic that was caused by the brewmaster barrels.
It is a double-edged sword, and can be looked at both ways

While ppl wouldn't be worying about trinketin slows and stuff I think the absence of BM would allow for more cc classes to come in and the decision is just as important now because your thinking ok if I trinket this conc shot or piercing howl . Which can have a lot more impact if there isn't another barel above you mid air waiting to reapply the slow . Just .02$ more

 

[Laurenti]

Easy with the flames there

Yeah, I kinda ignored that

imo imo we try out no bm's next premade sesh and just go from there

I totally support this. I have no problem with testing things and playing around with it ( that's kinda the entire point of practice wargames). At the same time, I was very defensive of people pushing for the immediate ban of a spec, when we have not even played any practice games with the suggested ban/implementation in place.

 

[Snowjobs]

Not saying we should perma ban bm's let's just agree to try out games without the for next premades . 39s TC is a ways out and we should explore every opertunity for better play IMO

 

[Shook]

I'm convinced you are trolling now.

 

[BACKPEDDLE]

Like isn't FoF the spec to be now with 20% buff 25sec CD?

banning BM just means a spec change and 3-4 pieces of new gear.

Does windwalker slow your entire team from 40 yards away?

 

[Laurenti]

Does windwalker slow your entire team from 40 yards away?

Complains about BM slows affecting his team, runs frozen power over windwalk totem in pugs on his enhance shaman. Maybe if you ran windwalk totem in pugs, your opinion of brewmasters would be slightly less negative

 

[DrTran]

Complains about BM slows affecting his team, runs frozen power over windwalk totem in pugs on his enhance shaman. Maybe if you ran windwalk totem in pugs, your opinion of brewmasters would be slightly less negative

Windwalk totem is a 1min cd that can be auto hit.....its good but you can just tab auto attack and start throwing haze with 1 global of downtime

 

[Laurenti]

Windwalk totem is a 1min cd that can be auto hit.....its good but you can just tab auto attack and start throwing haze with 1 global of downtime

The chance of a windwalk totem getting noticed and dropped before you have taken advantage of the AOE freedom is insanely low lol. I suppose it could happen, but it is very unlikely. I know from the three games that we played, when our rsham dropped a windwalk totem to either push in or peel out of a fight, we benefited from the full duration of the effect, as the totem was not noticed and killed.

 

[DrTran]

The chance of a windwalk totem getting noticed and dropped before you have taken advantage of the AOE freedom is insanely low lol. I suppose it could happen, but it is very unlikely. I know from the three games that we played, when our rsham dropped a windwalk totem to either push in or peel out of a fight, we benefited from the full duration of the effect, as the totem was not noticed and killed.

It's really not that low. The premades that happened were more observations than anything to test the meta. In a proper game and even in pugs, any spriest or hunt with an ounce of awareness will kill it almost instantly.

 

[Laurenti]

It's really not that low. The premades that happened were more observations than anything to test the meta. In a proper game and even in pugs, any spriest or hunt with an ounce of awareness will kill it almost instantly.

Yes they were to see how stuff worked out, but if a windwalk totem ( aoe 40 yard freedom) is not noticed over and over again in a wargame, it is highly unlikely that the totem will be consistently noticed and killed in a pug or premade

 

[Shook]

Yes they were to see how stuff worked out, but if a windwalk totem ( aoe 40 yard freedom) is not noticed over and over again in a wargame, it is highly unlikely that the totem will be consistently noticed and killed in a pug or premade

All it takes is a hunter with a auto attack totem macro to press that button when gladiatorlossa says "windwalk totem".

Rip totems

 

[Laurenti]

All it takes is a hunter with a auto attack totem macro to press that button when gladiatorlossa says "windwalk totem".

Rip totems

It is still probably the most beneficial premade level 30 talent. Even if the totem is killed, your team still benefits from the aoe slow cleanse/immunity, even if it only for a global or two.

 

[Shook]

It is still probably the most beneficial premade level 30 talent. Even if the totem is killed, your team still benefits from the aoe slow cleanse/immunity, even if it only for a global or two.

Of course. But my comment was a "counter-argument" to why windwalk isnt a hard counter to Haze in that its on a 1 min cd and can be killed.

 

[Laurenti]

Of course. But my comment was a "counter-argument" to why windwalk isnt a hard counter to Haze in that its on a 1 min cd and can be killed.

Touché. Windwalk was just an example, and is obviously not the only mobility that exists in the bracket. Mages can blazing speed to suppress it if they really need to move, hunters can disengage, warriors have charge, etc. My point is, it can be dealt with in clutch situations when it needs to be dealt with, thus making it not extremely gamechanging. Does it have an effect on the game? Obviously. Is it enough to warrant a ban? In my opinion, no

 

[UbexHD]

pls no say meta, ty

 

[Fancy]

Wow Neap. That's a pretty bold move calling out the player who pretty much carried mid for our 19 squad in the twink cup. I don't think listening to those 3 games we played is anything close to a fair representation of what Anatomy can do as a player AND a leader. Comparing shot-calling has nothing to do with the class, and has everything to do with the environment of the team. I can be the first to say JCM was pretty much testing the waters and getting a feel for the bracket, which is why I joined the other team in the 3rd game. I know Fancy yelling like an idiot can sound pretty damn good, but it really comes down to which targets you call, not how you say it.

On another note, banning BM monks would not only completely shift the meta to better gameplay, but it would open up different possible strats for teams to run. The class seemed to be needed at 19, but, from what I've seen at 39, I think we could easily do without it.

Those games we played where only to test the potential meta of the bracket - all for fun - I do call like an idoit but when i play I get a caster to simply say a name when my target is 2 deep and I swap instantly with my target calling as well.

I think the dot comp could be amazing but have to have so much control/communciation to make it insanely viable, like if the team can survive the first 30 seconds or so the other teams healers will just die from the damage output.

Many comps will come out in testing and I can't wait to see the meta evolve.

 

[Boostz]

Fine, listen to the communication difference, then tell me who is the better bm monk. You can't say that one bm monk cannot outplay another one.

I mean, it wasn't a big deal which is why nothing was said, but we were basically pugging. Sure, everyone had the jcm tag, but even that day we didn't have any specific team, it was pretty much 30 minutes before the game 'okay who's on'. I wasn't stressed about it because I knew we'd have 10 players on, but it we picked up pretty much everyone who was on at the time. Several of them were players who were friends of other players and hadn't ever premaded before.

Not saying Fancy didn't have the better team, he did, but if that was a 'jcm' team it was the barest of bones. You listened to our vod so you know we literally just went in to play some games and didn't bother with strat because it was just for something to do. We were just having fun.

Basing Anatomyz play on that is pretty ludicrous, especially when TC videos exist with voice comms of our team.