Current PTR Enchant Scaling

These are my thoughts on Enchants becoming nearly ignorable.

The only event in where us all having lower enchants will be problematic is in a scenario where we are mixed with players who are a higher level than we are.


We already know that WPvP doesn't exist nearly to the extent that it used to. Blizzard has wiped low level twinking so much that we simply don't have a chance against characters 30 levels higher than us like we used to. I remember being on my rogue with a few friends going against 57-70s in Hellfire Peninsula capping towers.

With many enchants being basically ignorable, the DPS boost that we gained in the past from leg armors and more will be gone. However, so will be the survivability boosts that we potentially could have capitalized on.

This is why the negative effects on survivability won't be as much of a problem: Nobody really used any of these survivability boosts as they didn't really make much of a difference. With that being said, our health is going to increase (if I'm correct) due to WoD base health being increased, our damage is going to decrease due to the loss of these powerful enchants. The only variable that is going to effect gameplay besides gearing is going to be the base damage that blizzard has assigned spells to based on classes / specs.

This is MUCH better than having abilities that are ALREADY extremely OP at the base level and then increasing their effectiveness by 200% or more thanks to DPS/HPS boosting enchants.


Our damage/heals have increased exponentially but our health has nearly stayed the same:
As soon as the possibility for toggling exp on and off was implemented, twinks became nothing but more and more bursty resulting in the ridiculously bursty bracket that it is today. Our health pools currently are only about 500 HP higher than we used to be, yet our DPS output across the board has increased by 300% and some have increased to over 400%. (in order for our dps to health ratio to be balanced, level 19 twinks should have around 4k-5k hp to accommodate for our current state of burst)

Somewhat rambling story of how I used to describe low level twinking to endgame players
I used to describe 19 twinking to people as this. With fewer abilities than level 70s, fewer gear options, fewer talents etc we all had only a few abilities to use, we all had nearly the exact same gear and the exact same specs. The only variables in a 1v1 match between two players were their latency and their skill. At max level you have so many things that come in to play such as gear, specs, talents, (and in wotlk+) glyphs, professions, reforging, item upgrades, gems, different viable enchants etc.

Think of the next extension to be 2 level 1 human warriors dueling in Northshire as soon as they were created. Imagine them dueling 10, 20 or even 30 times in a row and each time the same player won. The only explanation besides latency would be that the victor was better at playing that level 1 warrior than the other player.

This for the most part is removing one more variable which increases the importance of expertise during given encounters.

Just my 2c
 
These are my thoughts on Enchants becoming nearly ignorable.

The only event in where us all having lower enchants will be problematic is in a scenario where we are mixed with players who are a higher level than we are.


We already know that WPvP doesn't exist nearly to the extent that it used to. Blizzard has wiped low level twinking so much that we simply don't have a chance against characters 30 levels higher than us like we used to. I remember being on my rogue with a few friends going against 57-70s in Hellfire Peninsula capping towers.

With many enchants being basically ignorable, the DPS boost that we gained in the past from leg armors and more will be gone. However, so will be the survivability boosts that we potentially could have capitalized on.

This is why the negative effects on survivability won't be as much of a problem: Nobody really used any of these survivability boosts as they didn't really make much of a difference. With that being said, our health is going to increase (if I'm correct) due to WoD base health being increased, our damage is going to decrease due to the loss of these powerful enchants. The only variable that is going to effect gameplay besides gearing is going to be the base damage that blizzard has assigned spells to based on classes / specs.

This is MUCH better than having abilities that are ALREADY extremely OP at the base level and then increasing their effectiveness by 200% or more thanks to DPS/HPS boosting enchants.


Our damage/heals have increased exponentially but our health has nearly stayed the same:
As soon as the possibility for toggling exp on and off was implemented, twinks became nothing but more and more bursty resulting in the ridiculously bursty bracket that it is today. Our health pools currently are only about 500 HP higher than we used to be, yet our DPS output across the board has increased by 300% and some have increased to over 400%. (in order for our dps to health ratio to be balanced, level 19 twinks should have around 4k-5k hp to accommodate for our current state of burst)

Somewhat rambling story of how I used to describe low level twinking to endgame players
I used to describe 19 twinking to people as this. With fewer abilities than level 70s, fewer gear options, fewer talents etc we all had only a few abilities to use, we all had nearly the exact same gear and the exact same specs. The only variables in a 1v1 match between two players were their latency and their skill. At max level you have so many things that come in to play such as gear, specs, talents, (and in wotlk+) glyphs, professions, reforging, item upgrades, gems, different viable enchants etc.

Think of the next extension to be 2 level 1 human warriors dueling in Northshire as soon as they were created. Imagine them dueling 10, 20 or even 30 times in a row and each time the same player won. The only explanation besides latency would be that the victor was better at playing that level 1 warrior than the other player.

This for the most part is removing one more variable which increases the importance of expertise during given encounters.

Just my 2c

I almost cried when I went on the PTR and saw my enchants with like +5 stats, but everyone is taking a hit here
 
people said rip twinks when they took away leg armors. this isn't the end and anyone who thinks it is is a moron.
 
We are all doomed!!!!!
 
people said rip twinks when they took away leg armors. this isn't the end and anyone who thinks it is is a moron.
Leg armor is just 1 thing. These changes are way more and affects alot more stuff. I'll give you the example of my level 10 dodge rogue. It is just ruined to ~30% dodge while it sat near the 100% on live. If this is not a R.I.P. I am crazy but you didn't think about stuff like that now did you. Say goodbye to your Lolboas haste rogue.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This might be the best thing that could have happened to this broken derpfest of a bracket. I do get the point that it might be sad for some people to lose their powersets going for 1 stat like dodge, haste or whatever and reaching high numbers, but that is not what had any effect on balance or enjoyable bgs/arenas. The new changes will.
And if the enchants in Wod give lower benefits then, that doesnt effect the twinking thing itself. I mean, you still have to enchant your stuff like you had to before...
I dont know why anyone would want enchants to be as powerfull as they are on live now but hey, some people always know it better. Even in a dead bracket they know that oneshotting whats good for it.
 
Leg armor is just 1 thing. These changes are way more and affects alot more stuff. I'll give you the example of my level 10 dodge rogue. It is just ruined to ~30% dodge while it sat near the 100% on live. If this is not a R.I.P. I am crazy but you didn't think about stuff like that now did you. Say goodbye to your Lolboas haste rogue.
Dodge rogues are some of my favorite things in the entire game.

With that being said I could have seen this coming seeing as how they nerfed dodge rogues back in TBC twice to try to drop them ALL down to reasonable dodge percentages.

I never thought my rogue would stay at 80% or so as long as he did! Even since TBC dodge rogues weren't NEARLY as good. In my opinion it was a war we lost long ago.
 
This might be the best thing that could have happened to this broken derpfest of a bracket. I do get the point that it might be sad for some people to lose their powersets going for 1 stat like dodge, haste or whatever and reaching high numbers, but that is not what had any effect on balance or enjoyable bgs/arenas. The new changes will.
And if the enchants in Wod give lower benefits then, that doesnt effect the twinking thing itself. I mean, you still have to enchant your stuff like you had to before...
I dont know why anyone would want enchants to be as powerfull as they are on live now but hey, some people always know it better. Even in a dead bracket they know that oneshotting whats good for it.
There are other ways to balance the game then nerfing enchants. Twinking is meant to unbalance balance... hey that sounds weird doesn't it.

Dodge rogues are some of my favorite things in the entire game.

With that being said I could have seen this coming seeing as how they nerfed dodge rogues back in TBC twice to try to drop them ALL down to reasonable dodge percentages.

I never thought my rogue would stay at 80% or so as long as he did! Even since TBC dodge rogues weren't NEARLY as good. In my opinion it was a war we lost long ago.
Yes it surely did but still blizzy made a nice comeback for stuff like dodge on 10s with mop to nerf it once again to the ground now in the next xpac and making it totally not viable anymore.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There are other ways to balance the game then nerfing enchants. Twinking is meant to unbalance balance... hey that sounds weird doesn't it.

Sure there are. But I do prefer this way over none. You will still unbalancing balance by enchanting your toons. In terms of ap and sp for example your enchants have lower stats but due to the new ap/dps maths your damage will still be lot higher than from non twinked people. dont know exact numbers and cant bother to find them. But in fact, things would have been fucked if they didnt changed enchant scaling.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sure there are. But I do prefer this way over none. You will still unbalancing balance by enchanting your toons. In terms of ap and sp for example your enchants have lower stats but due to the new ap/dps maths your damage will still be lot higher than from non twinked people. dont know exact numbers and cant bother to find them. But in fact, things would have been fucked if they didnt changed enchant scaling.
So just because you prefer this over no scaling which also stands for simply destroying other ways to twink and 2ndary stats is a good solution according to you? You like having lesser options within twinking? I sure don't.
 
To keep it simple. I want to play this bracket in the most possibly balanced way. These changes will hopefully bring more balance and therefore more enjoyable wsg/arenas. Thats why I like the changes. It leads to nowhere to talk about better balancing options cause we all know there are some if blizz would care about low level. This is what we get and I do think it will bring better times for 19s than MOP. Thats all...
 
I want to play this bracket in the most possibly balanced way. These changes will hopefully bring more balance.
These changes will not do what you want. Damage is higher cause of lesser damage reduction while health is getting upped by some to compensate for the loss of dmg reduction but it won't be enough. Only thing that will be lesser are the amount of crits. I suppose you will see when it goes live.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Copy'd all my twinks over, and I had alot of scrolls laying around.

Here's the breakdown, in random order: All scaled at lv 19.

15 strenght/agi - 5 str/agi
15 Healing bracer, gloves - 5
Surefooted - 3 haste 3 crit
Glove reinforcements - 9 stam
Mending - healed 127
30 spellpower - 11 spellpower
Crusader remains unchanged (yay, vanilla enchants should be BiS imo)
Hurricane Weapon - 19 Haste
Black magic - 29 haste
Fiery Weapon, unchanged - 40 dmg
Elemental Force - 116, 218crit (lame..fuck EF, this needs a serious nerf, bring back Fiery weapon)
Mongoose - 33 agi 8 haste
Blood Draining - Restores 46hp, stacks 5 times. ~230 heal, only under 35% hp.
Berserking weapon - 75 ap
Greater stats (4) - 3
Cloak Stealth - 3 agi 3 dodge
Executioner - 90 crit
Major health chest - 36 hp
Greater crititcal strike cloak - 3 crit
Bracer crit - 2
Boots, gloves, bracer haste - 2
PvP cloak scroll says 12 pvp power, but my enchanted cloak tooltip says 5 pvpower
Greater striking weapon - 2
Greater assault bracer - 3 ap
Spirit of Conquest - 62 intellect
Bloody Dancing Steel - 18 strength/agi
Glorius Tyranny - 7 Pvp power & disarm reduction
Lifestealing, unchanged - heals 30
Unholy Weapon - Physical dmg done reduced by 15
Colossus enchant - absorbs 84 damage
Enchant chest (major?) mana - 17 mana(but gives 85 mana)
Boar's speed boots - minor speed + 2 stam
Blurred speed - minor speed + 2 agi
Dexterity boots - 3 agi
15 agi gloves - 5 agi
Heavy Borean Armor Kit - 2 stam
Major stamina shield - 5 stam
Major stamina bracer - 5 stam
Major stamina cloak - 3 stam
Scorched leg armor - 5 ap 6 crit
Scryer shoulder enchant - 2ap 1 crit
Drakehide leg armor - 6 stam 2 dodge
Charscale leg armor - 6 stam 2 agi
Heartseeker Scope - 11 crit
Gnomish X-ray Scope - 150 ap

AGM trinket 11 stam down from 12 but absorbs 903 damage
Lucky Fishing Hat, unchanged. (LFH gives 285 hp at 19)
Furbolg Pouch unchanged, offhand enchant 2 int

as with patch 5.4 seems like scopes are still OP and slipping thru the cracks
 
There are other ways to balance the game then nerfing enchants. Twinking is meant to unbalance balance... hey that sounds weird doesn't it.

enchants haven't even been nerfed. my 29 rogue has the same stats on ptr as on live. for instance: all atkp has been halfed, but each point awards more than it did on live. only real difference is that agi doesn't give crit I think.
 
What is twinking when there is no or hardly any difference is the question you should ask yourself.

This is not about burst or if things are more reliable or not but the essence of twinking itself.

It will still only be the tooltip on your enchant. If it says 1000000 agi on your rogues glove chant or 1, it will still be BiS. None of us have been able to obtain BiS since vanilla quests were removed anyways.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What about windsong and Sunfire?

I don't have wind song, but sunfire on my 39 Druid was 54 spell power and now is no longer grandfathered due to scaling and is 38 spell power. Idk about death frost
 
This might be the best thing that could have happened to this broken derpfest of a bracket. I do get the point that it might be sad for some people to lose their powersets going for 1 stat like dodge, haste or whatever and reaching high numbers, but that is not what had any effect on balance or enjoyable bgs/arenas. The new changes will.
And if the enchants in Wod give lower benefits then, that doesnt effect the twinking thing itself. I mean, you still have to enchant your stuff like you had to before...
I dont know why anyone would want enchants to be as powerfull as they are on live now but hey, some people always know it better. Even in a dead bracket they know that oneshotting whats good for it.

this so much, people who think twinking is dead because some enchants are tuned down LOL go home plz
 
this so much, people who think twinking is dead because some enchants are tuned down LOL go home plz

Whatever do you mean? Facing a rogue with a double DS proc, or a hunter with a scope proc is the reasons we twink :rolleyes:
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top