class viability debate lol

idk y ppl think this is a train wreck more like a car wreck where some cars (productive conversation) made it through while others crashed and burned
 
A general tier list (or perhaps 2 - split into wargame tiers and pugs tiers) would be useful. Its often asked for and very helpful for new twinks to decide on classes to play/try out. We've had several pull lists off the top of their head that are reasonably accurate, but they are rather informal and buried in random threads or the discord. I believe Tollo maintained one several expacs ago that was very useful.

...and so that it doesn't become a trainwreck of a thread like this, it should probably be pretty objective, well-reasoned, and cover all classes. If someone makes that, I'd love to link to it from the quick start guide and I'm sure Ripduck would pin it.

I will probably try to create a basic list with the class and specs, but I lack the knowledge of most specs without hands-on experience, so I will do my best to provide output.

*NOTE THAT THIS IS STILL A WORK IN PROGRESS.

-I am open to opinions concerning the tier list and class/spec information.
-Please do not post stuff like "X spec is just bad". please be elaborate and provide reasons.
-I appreciate any and all information you can provide on pros and cons for each class/spec

::Tier list subject to change::

S Tier:
Druid - Balance

Tier 1:
Druid - Restoration
Hunter - Survival
Hunter - Marksmanship
Mage - Arcane
Monk - Mistweaver
Priest - Discipline
Rogue - Outlaw
Shaman - Elemental
Shaman - Restoration


Tier 2:
Hunter - Beast Mastery
Paladin - Holy
Priest - Holy
Priest - Shadow
Warrior - Arms
Warrior - Fury

Tier 3:
Mage - Fire
Mage - Frost
Warlock - Affliction
Warlock - Demonology
Warlock - Destruction
Shaman - Enhancement

Tier 4:
Rogue - Assassination
Rogue - Subtlety
Druid - Feral

Tier 5 (unreliable tier):
Druid - Guardian
Monk - Windwalker
Paladin - Protection
Paladin - Retribution
Warrior - Protection


We will list the class specializations individually with pros/cons, talent rundowns and spec notes.


Druid - Balance
---------------
Spec Rating : 10/10
Good4Wargames : Yes

Pros:
-High burst damage
-moderate sustained damage with DoT spread
-High mobility with Travel Form, Cat Form and Dash
-Can stealth in Cat Form
-Can shapeshift out of roots/slows at no cost
-Immune to Polymorph whilst shapeshifted
-Access to Regrowth; fast heal with a HoT
-Empowerments further amplify damage

Cons:
-low mana pool
-vulnerable to interrupts
-no crowd control
-no instant gap closers/escapes
-Solar Empowerment is AoE, which can break certain CCs
-requires Astral Power management
-Dash is on a 2 minute cooldown

Talent Rundown:
Nature's Balance : Recommended
Generates Astral Power while in combat, and rebalances to 50% while out of combat. This provides more uptime on Starsurge.
Warrior of Elune : OK/Recommended
Makes next 3 Lunar Strikes instant and generate 40% more Astral Power on a 45 second cooldown. Useful for chasing targets while on the move.
Force of Nature : OK
Summons 3 treants in a targeted area which deal damage.

Notes:


______________________________________________________________

Druid - Guardian
----------------

______________________________________________________________

Druid - Feral
-------------
Spec Rating : 4/10
Good4Wargames : No


Pros:
-High mobility with Travel Form, Cat Form and Dash
-Can stealth in Cat Form
-Can shapeshift out of roots/slows at no cost
-Immune to Polymorph whilst shapeshifted
-Single target and AoE on-target DoTs
-Access to Regrowth; fast heal with a HoT
-Sustained damage through bleed DoTs
-Tiger's Fury generates 20 energy and increases damage by 15%

Cons:
-low mana pool
-vulnerable to interrupts ( casting Regrowth )
-no crowd control
-no instant gap closers/escapes
-Thrash applies an AoE bleed DoT, which can break certain CCs
-Dash is on a 2 minute cooldown
-Tiger's Fury is on a 30 second cooldown

Talent Rundown:
Sabertooth : TBA on 8.1

Blood Scent:
10% increased crit chance in bleeding targets

Predator:
Cooldown resets on Tiger's Fury when a bleeding target dies, and existing buff lasts 5 more seconds. This provides energy regen.

Lunar Inspiration:
Moonfire can now be used while in Cat Form, scales off attack power, and costs 30 energy, providing another DoT that can be used from a distance.
______________________________________________________________

Druid - Restoration
-------------------
Pros:
-moderate sustained damage with DoT spread
-High mobility with Travel Form, Cat Form and Dash
-Can stealth in Cat Form
-Can shapeshift out of roots/slows at no cost
-Immune to Polymorph whilst shapeshifted
-Access to Regrowth; fast heal with a HoT
-Additional HoT with Rejuvenation
-High burst heal with Swiftmend

Cons:
-low mana pool
-vulnerable to interrupts
-no crowd control
-no instant gap closers/escapes
-Dash is on a 2 minute cooldown
-Swiftmend is on a 25 second cooldown

Talent Rundown:
Abundance : OK?
Reduces cost and increases crit chance of Regrowth for every Rejuv you have active.
You shouldn't be spamming these though, especially if your FCing in WSG.

Prosperity : OK/Recommended
Having a second burst heal available as an emergency is always nice. The cooldown reduction is useful as well.

Cenarion Ward : Recommended
As if 2 HoTs weren't enough, anyone taking damage while under this ward will generate yet another HoT. 30 second cooldown.

Notes:


______________________________________________________________

Hunter - Beast Mastery
----------------------

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Hunter - Marksmanship
---------------------

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Hunter - Survival
-----------------

______________________________________________________________

Mage - Arcane
-------------
Spec Rating : 9/10
Good4Wargames : Yes

Pros:
-Massive sustained/bursty damage
-Clearcasting makes Arcane Missiles free, cost no mana and channel faster
-Escape/Gap closer with Blink
-Blink frees from stuns and roots
-AoE Root CC with Frost Nova
-CC with Polymorph
-AoE with Arcane Explosion to reveal stealthed units

Cons:
-Cloth user; will die quickly
-Polymorph has a 30 yard range; can only be used on one target at a time; target regens quickly under effect; broken by damage
-Shapeshifted druids are immune to Polymorph
-vulnerable to interrupts; Blink also locks down as it is an Arcane spell
-Blink is on a 15 second cooldown
-Frost Nova is on a 30 second cooldown; can be broken by damage
-Arcane Missiles has a high mana cost and should be used sparingly
-Arcane Blast has a stacking mana cost

Talent Rundown:
Amplification : Recommended
Deak an additional bolt of damage on a clearcasted Arcane Missiles.

Rule of Threes : Not Recommended?
The majority of your damage comes from Arcane Missiles, so you won't use this often.

Arcane Familiar : Not recommended?


Notes:

______________________________________________________________

Mage - Fire
-----------
Spec Rating : 6.5/10
Good4Wargames? :

Pros:
-Potential burst damage with instant Pyroblasts through Hot Streak passive
-Fire Blast is instant crit providing a Hot Streak proc
-innate 15% increased crit chance with Critical Mass
-gap closer/escape with Blink
-Blink removes stuns and roots
-Scorch can be used on the move
-CC with Polymorph
-AoE root CC with Frost Nova

Cons:
-Cloth user; will die quickly
-Polymorph has a 30 yard range; can only be used on one target at a time; target regens quickly under effect; broken by damage
-Shapeshifted druids are immune to Polymorph
-vulnerable to interrupts
-Blink is on a 15 second cooldown
-Frost Nova is on a 30 second cooldown; can be broken by damage
-Pyroblast has a huge cast time outside of Hot Streak
-MASSIVELY reliant on crit chance, as Hot Streak requires two consecutive crits for instant Pyroblasts
-Scorch does low damage (untalented)

Talent Rundown:

Firestarter : Recommended?
Casting Fireball on a near full health target will result in a crit. Follow that up with Fire Blast (as soon as Fireball crits) to have a Hot Streak Pyroblast.

Pyromaniac: Not recommended?
Having another Hot Streak Pyroblast results in massive burst, however its proc rate is rather low considering the requirements to build up Hot Streak.

Searing Touch : Recommended?
Makes Scorch much more reliable, with damage almost par to fireball at lower mana cost, faster casting time and usable while moving. It also has potential execution with instant crits at targets below 30% health, which also procs Hot Streak.

Notes:


______________________________________________________________

Mage - Frost
------------
Spec Rating : 6/10
Good4Wargames? : No

Pros:
-Consistent slow with Frostbolt
-Ranged AoE slow with Blizzard
-AoE Root with Frost Nova
-innate increased crit chance against frozen targets with Shatter passive
-Ice Lance deals triple damage to frozen targets; further damage if crit due to Shatter
-Blink removes stuns and roots
-Pet Water elemental attacks will slow target?

Cons:
-Cloth user; will die quickly
-Polymorph has a 30 yard range; can only be used on one target at a time; target regens quickly under effect; broken by damage
-Shapeshifted druids are immune to Polymorph
-vulnerable to interrupts
-Blink is on a 15 second cooldown
-Frost Nova is on a 30 second cooldown; can be broken by damage
-crit dependent as Shatter scales with crit
-Ice Lance deals low damage; Targets are required to be frozen for higher damage from Ice Lance, which is limited to Frost Nova
-Requires pet management
-Pet does not have Freeze, further limiting Frost's CC potential

Talent Rundown:

Bone Chilling : Not Recommended
Damage increases up to a mere 5%. Enemies that are slowed by Frostbolt are considered chilled. This talent falls off when you can't find targets to maintain the buff.

Lonely Winter : OK/Recommended
This talent removes the need for per management (removing pet altogether) to fix one of Frost's main issues: damage. 25% increase to Frostbolt and Ice Lance should help in sustain and burst damage

Ice Nova : OK/Recommended
Instant ranged AoE root CC. Targets are frozen for 2 seconds, giving more Ice Lance targets, albeit temporarily. Mainly used if team needs extra crowd control.

Notes:


______________________________________________________________

Monk - Brewmaster
-----------------

______________________________________________________________

Monk - Mistweaver
-----------------

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Monk - Windwalker
-----------------

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PALADIN
----------
Overall Rating : 5/10

Overall Pros:
-5 second stun
-Decent healing
-8 second immunity

Overall Cons:
-Stun has a 10yd range and is on a 1 minute cooldown
-Attack skills have rather long cooldowns
-Melee
-no gap closer/escape skills
-immunity comes with a long cooldown

______________________________________________________________

Paladin - Holy
--------------
Overall Rating : 7/10
Good4Wargames? : No


Pros:
-5 second stun
-Decent healing
-8 second immunity
-Has instant heal through Holy Shock
-Consecration for revealing stealthed units

Cons:
-Stun has a 10yd range and is on a 1 minute cooldown
-no HoTs or shield spells
-Attack skills have rather long cooldowns
-Melee
-no gap closer/escape skills
-immunity comes with a long cooldown
-Only has 2 non-talent heals
-Holy Shock is on a 12 second cooldown


Talent Rundown:
Crusader's Might - OK
If you find yourself constantly in the middle of a fight, you can use this to lower the cooldown on Holy Shock. Note that the cooldown on Crusader Strike is still rather high.

Bestow Faith - Recommended
A good heal for predicting incoming damage. This is particularly useful on flag carriers when they are about to get hit.

Light's Hammer - OK
Does low AoE Healing and Damage. Stacks with consecration in terms of damage and can be used from a distance. Also helps with revealing stealthed units.

Notes:
Paladins lost a lot of its utility expansions ago after the loss of speed talents. Flash of Light is rather mana hungry and should be used sparingly. Holy Shock is your only instant heal and should be saved for on the move or as an emergency heal on an ally. Do not use it offensively unless it will help guarantee a kill. Due to its high cooldown, Hammer of Justice should be used after the enemy's trinket is down.

______________________________________________________________

Paladin - Protection
--------------------
Overall Rating : 1/10
Good4Wargames? : No

Pros:
-5 second stun
-Decent healing
-8 second immunity
-Consecration for revealing stealthed units

Cons:
-Stun has a 10yd range and is on a 1 minute cooldown
-PVP Debuff for being tank spec (25% increased damage taken)
-Attack skills have rather long cooldowns
-Melee
-no gap closer/escape skills
-damage is near negligible
-low mana for healing
-immunity comes with a long cooldown
-Takes extra damage due to tank spec debuff?

Useful Talents:
Holy Shield : Recommended
Block chance is increased, and is your only source of "chanced" damage reduction from magic attacks. Will reflect around 10% of your attack power as damage back to the attacker.

Redoubt : Not recommended
Avenger's Shield damage is negligible, and the increased block is not worth it since it does not affect magic attacks, which 19s is filled with at the moment

Blessed Hammer : Not recommended
The damage is avoidable, and the reduction on one auto-attack towards you is not worth taking this talent, especially when most of the attacks done to you are from magic



Notes:
Paladins lost a lot of its utility expansions ago after the loss of speed talents. The damage scaling on attack skills has also dropped exponentially. Avenger's Shield no longer silences, which was one of the only useful skills in its arsenal. Crusader Strike is dropped for Hammer of the Righteous, which has very low attack power scaling; it deals AoE damage while standing on Consecration, which can be either a boon or a pain due to it breaking crowd control. Due to its high cooldown, Hammer of Justice should be used after the enemy's trinket is down.

______________________________________________________________

Paladin - Retribution
---------------------
Overall Rating : 3/10
Good4Wargames? : No

Pros:
-5 second stun
-Decent self healing
-8 second immunity

Cons:
-Stun has a 10yd range and is on a 1 minute cooldown
-Attack skills have rather long cooldowns
-Melee
-no gap closer/escape skills
-very low damage for a dps class
-low mana for healing
-immunity comes with a long cooldown
-lack of Consecration to reveal stealth


Useful Talents:
Zeal : OK
With your cooldowns being so high, your only other damage is through auto attacks. The increase in auto-attack speed will be useful if you can keep ToT.

Righteous Verdict : Not recommended
There isn't enough time to stack enough Holy Power to make this talent useful

Execution Sentence: Recommended
This is your only other attack aside from Judgment that you will have in your arsenal for executing fleeing targets if they have some distance built.


Notes:
Paladins lost a lot of its utility expansions ago after the loss of speed talents. The damage scaling on attack skills has also dropped exponentially, and with the increased cooldown on them as well, what used to be powerhouse damage now pales in comparison to other melee classes. It takes a while to stack up Holy Power to use Templar's Verdict ( and Execution Sentence if you chose the talent ) and chasing/escaping abilities are nonexistent, making retribution paladins an easy target. Due to its high cooldown, Hammer of Justice should be used after the enemy's trinket is down.

______________________________________________________________

Priest - Discipline
-------------------
Spec Rating : 9/10
Good4Wargames? : Yes

Pros:
-strong heals
-strong on-demand shields which also provide no cast delay from damage taken
-Penance can be channeled while moving
-access to Mind Vision
-AoE fear with Psychic Scream
-moderate sustained damage for a healer spec

Cons:
-cloth user; can be killed quickly if not focused
-vulnerable to interrupts
-no HoT's
-Penance has a 9 second cooldown
-Psychic Scream has a 1 minute cooldown

Talent Rundown:
Castigation : Recommended
Provides faster healing/damage as well as one additional bolt

Twist of Fate : ?

Schism : OK
Can be used if your team needs additional damage on a focused target

Notes:

______________________________________________________________

Priest - Holy
-------------
Spec Rating : 7/10
Good4Wargames? :

Pros:
-strong heals
-HoT with Renew
-ranged single-target CC with Holy Word: Chastice
-AoE fear with Psychic Scream
-Instant massive heal with Holy Word: Serenity
-Instant damage with Holy Fire
-access to mind vision

Cons:
-Cloth user; can die quickly if not paying attention
-no shields
-vulnerable to interrupts
-Psychic Scream is on a 1 minute cooldown
-Holy Word: Serenity is on a 1 minute cooldown

Talent Rundown:
Enlightenment : OK?
Mana regen is nice but mana management should not be an issue unless you're mindlessly spamming heals

Trail of Light : Recommended
Makes it easier to heal 2 focused allies at a time

Enduring Renewal : OK?
Refreshes Renew on target via Flash Heal. Saves time and mana, but should not be used strictly to refresh Renew.

Notes:

______________________________________________________________

Priest - Shadow
---------------
Spec Rating : 7/10
Good4Wargames :

Pros:
-AoE fear from psychic scream
-Shadowform provides 10% additional spell damage; reduces physical damage taken by 10%
-Mind Flay deals moderate sustained damage and slows target
-Access to Flash Heal
-Access to Power Word: Shield
-moderate burst damage with Mind Blast

Cons:
-cloth user; despite shadowform, can die quickly if careless
-low mana pool, limiting heals and shields
-vulnerable to interrupts
-Psychic Scream is on a 1 minute cooldown

Talent rundown:
Fortress of the Mind :


Shadowy Insight :


Shadow Word: Void :


______________________________________________________________

Rogue - Assassination
---------------------

______________________________________________________________

Rogue - Outlaw
--------------

______________________________________________________________

Rogue - Subtlety
----------------

______________________________________________________________

SHAMAN
-------
Overall Rating : 8/10

Overall Pros:
-Can be ranged, melee or healer depending on player choice
-High mobility with Ghost Wolf
-access to interrupt with Wind Shear
-access to AoE slow with Earthbind totem; can be used from a distance
-access to Healing Surge
-provide vision with Far Sight
-moderate sustained damage

Overall Cons:
-low mana pool on Elemental/Enhancement
-Elemental and Restoration are vulnerable to interrupts
-Elemental and Enhancement require maelstrom management
-Wind Shear has a 30yd range, requiring overextension to use


______________________________________________________________

Shaman - Elemental
------------------
Spec rating :
Good4Wargames? : Yes

Pros:
-high mobility with Ghost Wolf
-access to ranged interrupt with Wind Shear
-access to AoE slow with Earthbind totem; can be used from a distance
-ranged caster
-moderate sustained damage
-high burst damage with Earth Shock
-can use healing surge
-provide vision with Far Sight

Cons:
-low mana pool
-requires maelstrom management through Lightning Bolts and Flame Shock
-deep focus on Earth Shock availability
-vulnerable to interrupts
-Lava Burst does not guarantee a crit on Flame Shock targets
-Wind Shear has a 30yd range, requiring overextension to use

Talent Rundown:
Earthen Rage : TBD in 8.1

Exposed Elements: OK
High damage on next Lightning Bolt after casting Earth Shock

Echo of the Elements : OK?
Lava Burst provides slightly more Maelstrom

Elemental Blast : OK?
A high damage spell that provides a small random secondary stat buff, but does not generate Maelstrom as far as I'm aware

Notes:
Having high instant burst damage with Earth Shock is incredible for sniping low health targets, but you must keep an eye on your maelstrom bar. A ranged AoE slow, ranged interrupt, high mobility with Ghost Wolf, and high DoT damage with Flame Shock makes Elemental quite fearful to deal with, but you must be aware of your positioning at all times.

______________________________________________________________

Shaman - Enhancement
--------------------
Spec Rating : 5.5/10
Good4Wargames? : No

Pros:
-High mobility with Ghost Wolf
-access to ranged interrupt with Wind Shear
-access to AoE slow with Earthbind totem; can be used from a distance
-high sustained damage
-can use Healing Surge for heals
-provides vision with Far Sight
-instant lightning bolts to interrupt bandages / keep enemy in combat

Cons:
-requires being in melee range
-low burst damage
-lightning bolt deals little damage
-low mana pool
-Rockbiter is your only source of Maelstrom

Talent Rundown:
Boulderfist : OK
Rockbiter damage is too low to benefit from increased damagebut at least it has 0.9 second reduced cooldown on Rockbiter usage for more Maelstrom.

Hot Hands : Recommended
A chance for higher Lava Lash damage at no cost, allowing for some moderate burst damage with high maelstrom. It requires consistent Flametongue uptime and ToT to proc Hot Hands.

Lightning Shield: Not recommended
Only affects melee attacks done to you to charge as you have no access to Stormstrike. Most in 19s use magic, making this talent almost irrelevant.

Notes:


______________________________________________________________

Shaman - Restoration
--------------------
Spec Rating : 9/10
Good4Wargames? : Yes

Pros:
-High mobility with Ghost Wolf
-access to ranged interrupt with Wind Shear
-access to AoE slow with Earthbind totem; can be used from a distance
-moderate sustained damage
-They have Riptide for instant heal and HoT
-provides vision with Far Sight

Cons:
-vulnerable to interrupts
-Lava Burst does not guarantee a crit on Flame Shock targets
-Wind Shear has a 30yd range, requiring overextension to use

Talent Rundown :
Torrent : OK
Higher initial Riptide heal, however this is slightly inferior to the other talents.

Undulation : OK
If you find yourself spamming Healing Surge (which you shouldn't), a correctly targetted/timed 3rd cast can save a life.

Unleash Life : Recommended
Instant heal plus additional heal on next cast allows for healing on the move.

Notes:


______________________________________________________________

WARLOCK
-------
Overall Rating : 6/10

Overall Pros:
-ranged class
-Drain Life does well for heal-tanking most classes, including Arcane Mages.
-Can use Fear, which does not DR with stuns or roots
-can generate Healthstones for group

Overall Cons:
-Fear has a 30yd range, has a cast time, and can be removed by damage ( including your DoTs and pet )
-cloth user; vulnerable to physical attacks
-vulnerable to interrupts due to standing still when casting
-no mobility skills
-reliant on soul shard generation for certain spells
-Drain Life does not heal you when damaging shields



______________________________________________________________

Warlock - Affliction
--------------------
Spec Rating : 6/10
Good4Wargames? : No

Pros:
-ranged class
-nice sustained damage spread through DoTs
-Fear
-moderate self-sustain through Drain Life
-can generate Healthstones for group
-Agony occasionally provides soul shards, removing the need to consistently cast Shadowbolt


Cons:
-Fear has a 30yd range, has a cast time, affects one target at a time, and can be removed by damage ( including your DoTs and pet )
-cloth user; vulnerable to physical attacks
-vulnerable to interrupts due to standing still when casting
-no mobility skills
-no burst damage
-Drain Life does not heal you when damaging shields
-Unstable Affliction requires a soul shard and has a 5-target limit.


Talent Rundown:

Nightfall : Recommended
With the spread of corruption, Nightfall procs consistently allowing cast-free shadowbolts.

Drain Soul : Not Recommended
The damage is lackluster compared to Drain Life, and it replaces Shadowbolt. It's channeled, making you vulnerable to interrupts.

Death Bolt : OK
Deals a modest amount of damage, but comes at a 30 second cooldown and should only be used when your DoTs are freshly applied.

Notes:
As a DoT-spreading class, Affliction warlocks do well in applying pressure to healers. Fear must be used from a safe position and in range of your healers. When using DoTs, be aware that they can break your Fear, so know who your Fear targets are before spamming DoTs on everyone. Agony occasionally generates soul shards, allowing more Unstable Affliction casts.

______________________________________________________________

Warlock - Demonology
--------------------
Spec Rating : 6/10
Good4Wargames? : No


Pros:
-ranged class
-Also deals damage through pets
-Fear
-moderate self-sustain through Drain Life
-can generate Healthstones for group
-high single target sustained damage and some AoE damage

Cons:
-Fear has a 30yd range, has a cast time, and can be removed by damage ( including your pets )
-cloth user; vulnerable to physical attacks
-vulnerable to interrupts due to standing still when casting
-no mobility skills
-Drain Life does not heal you when damaging shields
-Pet deals a good portion of your damage, so must be maintained alive constantly.
-Costs 1 soul shard to resummon pet
-Most skills require soul shards
-no instant cast non-talent spells


Notes:
Dreadlash : OK
Dreadstalkers deal 25% increased damage and is AoE.

Demonic Strength: Recommended
Felguard will charge to target to cast an even greater Felstorm for massively increased damage in a 5 second window. Cannot be cast if Felguard is currently using Felstorm and is on a 1 minute cooldown.

Bilescourge Bombers : OK
At the cost of 2 soul shards, you can instant cast an aoe that deals damage every half a second for 6 seconds. Useful for revealing stealthed units and interrupting captures. Has a 40yd range with a 30 second cooldown.


Notes:
The only source of soul shards for Demonology warlocks is Shadowbolt, so it will be used very often. You spend most of the time casting as a demolock, so be wary of your surroundings, as this will make you an easy target for wind shears and kicks. Pets can break your fear, so use it on targets that are not focused.
______________________________________________________________

Warlock - Destruction
---------------------
Spec Rating : 6/10
Good4Wargames? : No


Pros:
-ranged class
-Burst damage through Chaos Bolts
-instant cast with Conflagarate with high soul shard fragment generation
-Fear
-moderate self-sustain through Drain Life
-can generate Healthstones for group
-Immolate generates soul shard fragments periodically


Cons:
-Fear has a 30yd range, has a cast time, and can be removed by damage ( including your DoTs and pet )
-cloth user; vulnerable to physical attacks
-vulnerable to interrupts due to standing still when casting
-no mobility skills
-Drain Life does not heal you when damaging shields
-Slower soul shard generation
-reliant on crit chance
-Conflagarate has a 13 second cooldown
-Chaos bolt, your burst spell, requires 2 soul shards to cast


Talent Rundown:

Flashover : Recommended
Conflagrate deals even more damage and adds an additional Backdraft charge

Eradication : OK
10% increased damage on Chaos Bolt'ed target is nice, but requires consistent ToT to make use of it

Soul Fire : Not Recommended
Deals low damage on a high cooldown. The 4 Soul Shard fragment generation does not make up for its use.

Notes:
High burst damage with Chaos Bolt and Conflagarate, but takes time to generate soul shards. Pets and Immolate can break your fear, so use it on targets that are not focused. Chaos Bolt has a 2.5 second cast time outside of Backdraft, so be wary when using it. Immolate can be used to passively generate Soul Shard fragments, so use it often.

______________________________________________________________

Warrior - Arms
--------------
______________________________________________________________

Warrior - Fury
--------------
______________________________________________________________

Warrior - Protection
--------------------
 
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I dont know much about how the new bloods play their toons, but even in this meta if I were given the choice of having Kíri(only lock i 'member from bk in the day) on my team as a lock or FOTM rogue in BFA, I'd want him/her on lock every time.
Just sayin'
 
yikes 19s have really hit an all time low
 
I dont know much about how the new bloods play their toons, but even in this meta if I were given the choice of having Kíri(only lock i 'member from bk in the day) on my team as a lock or FOTM rogue in BFA, I'd want him/her on lock every time.
Just sayin'
This means nothing
 
it kinda is worth saying that classes like warlocks and enhancement shammies are probably the "best thing that has no place in a meta"

not that i'm involved in this community but it's a good idea to make a real tier list. let people decide for themselves whether b tier or c tier or f tier is "too bad to be not viable." no need to have giant thread arguments about it all.
 
it kinda is worth saying that classes like warlocks and enhancement shammies are probably the "best thing that has no place in a meta"

not that i'm involved in this community but it's a good idea to make a real tier list. let people decide for themselves whether b tier or c tier or f tier is "too bad to be not viable." no need to have giant thread arguments about it all.
If it's about my list, the tier 5 is legit. Paladins lack damage and mobility, and tank specs have little utility and very low attack power scaling, making them near worthless.
Tier 3 can still do well in pugs, and may have a chance in competitive; however, enhancement shaman will get shredded by ranged attacks which dominate the bracket.
 
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Haven't checked the patch notes as of yet, but what direct impact is there for twinks?
Few. Outlaw gets a buff (Sinister Strike gets combopoints for every hit instead of one)
Shadow Priest gets squishier (Shadowform loses the 10% armor buff)
Some Holy Priest tuning

I don't think it really changes much at all.
 
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Few. Outlaw gets a buff (Sinister Strike gets combopoints for every hit instead of one)
Shadow Priest gets squishier (Shadowform loses the 10% armor buff)
Some Holy Priest tuning

I don't think it really changes much at all.

Will give me some sort of incentive to keep playing on my 19 rogue in that case, got fed up of being kited and I wasn't on board the train of fragbelts and nitro boots :(
 
windwalker is the best spec in the current meta
 
I'm currently at TwitchCon so updating my presumed tier list will be slower, but I'm currently working on mage and shaman if anyone wants to add their input and notes.

Good work on this stuff. I'd suggest pulling it out into its own thread for better visibility so you can get feedback. You may also want to have it in a google doc or something for tracking/collaboration/back up purposes.
 
Ah beans Mr turtle, i play only the bad classes -_- (ret/enh sham)
[doublepost=1540770428,1540764489][/doublepost]Having played quite a bit of Ret pala and also Enh sham I am convinced that ret pala is just not very viable; but the only reason Enh sham is not wargame viable is because the power of the other two specs. Comparing Enh sham to other sustained dmg melee specs it fairs quite well, and is very versitile. But when you can only have 2 of any class, resto sham is honestly the strongest spec in game rn, and ele sham can pose a burst threat that is unmatched by any other spec. It will never crack into wargame teams competing against the other shaman specs in this meta.

Also, the ele sham changes look interesting and fun. I think that shifting power away from ES to LB will make them weaker in wargames, but they might have allot more sustained dmg a a LB buff + the talent shift. IT will be fun to see how that plays out, I think for sure in solo que having access to better sustain dmg will make ele easier to play.
 

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