class viability debate lol

[Frogturtle]

edit: ok the topic has shifted a bit. see the info below if you need help picking a class that is right 4 u in the yung gulch. read comments for insight on what can make a class worth playing vs. not worth playing. 2 different perspectives here so feel free 2 join debate or read through and decide for urself.

happy xd'ing fellow pondboys Bv)

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hi community pillar and god of the gulch frogturtle here BTW just got back from my seminar on how to make 5 trillion dollars in 34 seconds in the comfort of ur own home and u can too!!

"frogturt i am huge noob. wat class should i pick that is best 4 me and my playstile?" - n00b 1

"pls help me frogturtle i want to be op like u but i dont know which class 2 choose!!!!" - n00b 2

"wow frogturtle. your skills are incredible. please write a guide to help new players as we are nowhere near as qualified as you. we should hang out more btw." - every member of GSC/LSN

ok guys so u r brand new 19 player wondering which class is best 4 u there r so many specs and so many choices how do u find the 1 that will help u pwn n00bs while having fun????

well lets start by listing things that u should never EVER play in current meta:

- warlock
- frost/fire mage (these are kind of debatable but generally a bad choice 99% of time)
- ret/prot paladin
- prot warrior
- ww/bm monk
- feral/guardian druid
- enhancement shaman
- sub/ass rogue (lol ass LMAO)
- DK
- demon hunter
- necromancer
- stapler
- used car

so that leaves u with these choices:

- outlaw rogue (aka weasel spec)
- arc mage
- rsham/ele sham
- arms/fury warr
- MISTWEAVER MONK THE CLASS OF THE GODS xd
- priest (disc>holy/shadow)
- rdruid/boomkin
- hunter
- holy paladin

ok so these ^ classes here r generally what u will want 2 be playing in pugs. some of the classes on this list are way better than others but they are all more or less viable. they generally all have very different playstyles so lets talk about that a bit

outlaw rogue: rogue is a very tactical class with stealth, one of the most influential abilities at 19 and in wow overall. with the ability to position yourself anywhere without being noticed, you can always be one step ahead of the enemy team. your stuns and interrupts enable you to make huge plays that can completely sway the impact of the game. a good rogue is very respectable as it is a difficult class to play at max potential.

wait nvm this is bfa lol u just cheap shot frag bomb in opener like 99% of the n00bs that play this obnoxious class with a 1/100 successful kick ratio

pick rogue if ur a n00b that wants ez win xd LMAO weasel scum dont forget 2 play linkin park in ur inSanE CoMBo ViDEo

arc mage: press 1 button = delete enemy from 40 yds away doesn't matter if they LoS it btw channeled spells go thru walls xd u also have rly strong cc tools like frost nova and polymorph which good mages use to very strong effect, lowest skill floor class but definitely a high skill ceiling

tbh not going to bother mentioning the other specs arc is just 500x better and will never be subbed for another mage spec unless the stars align so just play this lol

resto shaman: probably the strongest solo class in the game atm as it is very well rounded. tons of strong instant cast spells, best mobile heals in the game, great mobility, huge utility with ranged aoe slow and ranged interrupt, BIG damage with flame shock DoT and doesnt really lose to anything 1v1. not a super difficult class to play at low level but something with this many options can definitely be played at a high lvl of skill.

ele shaman: worse than resto shaman in most regards but has insane on-demand burst dmg with earth shock so it's still a very strong spec. best played in organized games where u can chill in the back and build up that phat earth shock damage, a lot harder to play in rando pugs but still possible in the right hands.

arms/fury warr: really weak class on its own but with a designated healer warriors can actually steamroll n00bs all day long. all-in high dmg melee class and doesnt rly serve much of a purpose beyond that. generally id recommend fury over arms since it has more burst but either can work. not a good class to play in organized premades

MISTWEAVER MONK: as u know this is frogturtle's class of choice in this meta. mw has the highest raw healing of any class, rly strong on-demand melee burst and rly good burst mobility. if played correctly you can beat or go even with any class in the game 1v1 and anything you heal will be virtually unkillable. tricky class 2 play because it has 0 damage mitigation and is vulnerable to interrupt classes (especially rogue) but this class is still very strong and has a ton of outplay potential in the right hands. my personal fav by far thats y im the best mw to ever touch this game #frogchamp 2018 Bv)

disc priest: probs the best healer in the game overall. terrible mobility but your spells are so fkn strong it doesnt matter too much. spammable bubble, aoe fear, high dmg with penance/DoT and really strong healing. a good priest is an insane addition 2 any team so if u want to rly excel in the healer role then disc priest is the right class 4 u with and has a high skill ceiling.

holy priest: no bubble kinda sucks but high dmg and insane 100% heal on a 1 min CD. more of a duel lord class but can work in pugs and maybe even premades with the right comp, but generally disc is better.

shadow priest: rly big bubble, terrible mana problems and weak healing but the dmg is decent and mind flay is an insane mid zoning ability (REEEEAAALLY long ranged slow very annoying when trying to cross) can have a big impact in the right hands but generally needs an organized team to make it work

resto druid: p much the best FC spec in the game. ridiculous self-healing, best mobility in the game by an insane margin, stealth, strong defensive CDs, extremely hard to kill. druids are the sports cars of 19 and have been ridiculously strong in the bracket for a very long time. cant go wrong choosing to explore this class, but arguably has the highest skill ceiling by far. this class will take a lot of practice to play at a high lvl but its worth it.

boomkin: ahh yes the dreaded boomkin. imo the best spec at 19. has stealth, mobility and some of the survivability that resto has with bear form/healing BUT also has some of the most ridiculous burst damage in the bracket. being able to sneak up to someone and blast their ass to the past is the crowning glory of this spec and they are an absolutely ridiculous threat on any team. if you want to play the best thing at 19, this is probably it. very high skill ceiling like resto druid. everyone will hate u for playing this btw just like rogue/arc mage xd

hunter: one of the few classes where all 3 specs can be viable, although surv is probably the best followed by marksman and then bm. hunter is a deceptively hard class 2 play despite all the backpedaling n00bs you see infesting the bracket. lots of potential with the right keybinds and understanding of the game. some of the most respectable twinks ive seen dedicate themselves to the hunter class and make rly smart/impactful plays constantly.

surv has really strong all in/burst, great cc, can serve as an alt flag carrier, and more. highly versatile melee-heavy class with a great gap closer and solid ranged options too like serpent sting DoT, and has disengage with parachute cloak for great mobility. definitely not the stupid meme that it was in legion. like druid, hunter has a very high skill cap especially in a meta where casters destroy hunters but definitely worth it if u invest the time.

marksman is my personal fav. worse than surv in most areas but really shines in ranged zoning/harrass. has the dreaded conc shot (ranged slow) on top of trap, serpent sting and other historically strong tools at 19. like surv it has a lot of cool pet play potential with pets, disengage/para cloak, and if you are good with scope procs you can actually catch people off guard with astronomically huge crits. also a very high skill cap spec so get rdy to practice.

bm isnt total garbage but its not great. not super familiar with this spec, seems like the worst one and not many ppl play it, but it's way more similar to marks than surv. it was a lot stronger in legion but got nerfed quite a bit so i'd recommend playing marks or surv over this but it's still a hunter and has most of the good hunter tools. probs just lacking in damage for the most part.

holy paladin: has mana problems but also has rly strong tools like bubble, the dreaded hammer of JUSTICE (big stun) and generally very difficult to kill. not the most viable healer due to mana problems mentioned before but in pugs they do much better because you typically aren't standing there in a mid stalemate burning mana for 15 minutes.

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ok guys there u go hope that helps u on ur quest 2 pwn n00bs if u hav questions pm me on xpoff or in game@ frogchamp Bleeding Hollow also there are some very skilled players for each of these classes so check out the forums for twink cup players and see what they have to say! this is just a quickie intro so hope it helps somewhat

dont play mw tho thats my class get ur own lol not like ud play it better than me anyways xd LMAO

cya in the gulch n00bs if u r expert of any of these classes feel free 2 comment below i will help all of the yung pondlings become legends just u wait and see

ALSO DONT 4GET TO SUBMIT EMOJIS 4 MY EMOJI CONTEST U HAVE UNTIL FRIDAY THX

- frogturtle 2018

 

[jwl]

Just because a class isnt FOTM doesn't mean they're not good. Frost mage and Warlocks both have a fair role in the bracket for no reason other than forcing trinkets.. Not to mention a good frost mage should be able to counter any melee just by kiting them. Assassination has sap/cheap shot, and double EF procs off of poisons. You didnt even mention every spec, where are holy paladin at?

 

[Frogturtle]

Just because a class isnt FOTM doesn't mean they're not good. Frost mage and Warlocks both have a fair role in the bracket for no reason other than forcing trinkets.. Not to mention a good frost mage should be able to counter any melee just by kiting them. Assassination has sap/cheap shot, and double EF procs off of poisons. You didnt even mention every spec, where are holy paladin at?

ok i added hpal just forgot to add it b4

fotm matters tho. its not what ppl just feel like playing, it is proven to b objectively better than everything else in most situations so more ppl gravitate towards it, not the other way around where its good because everyone plays it.

like sure a frost mage can kite someone a lot which is situationally good, or you can go arcane and just kill them, on top of having nova and polymorph which is plenty of cc. yeah ass rogue is pretty good at one niche thing, but pistol shot is better at more things. no single class does everything perfectly, there are just classes that far and away excel at a crucial meta role more than anything else, or classes that do many things very well.

there will always be weaker classes that are good at 'that one thing' compared to a superior spec, but that 1 thing is generally less important than what the other specs are good at in the grand scheme of things, so the other spec or another class entirely is played

easiest example is fury warrior. their melee burst damage is absolutely nuts, but it offers absolutely nothing else of value and is prone to dying to casters in a caster-heavy meta which makes it absolutely worthless in premades and a risky pick in pugs unless you have a diehard pocket healer

some classes may have undiscovered potential as we saw with feral druid later in legion, sure, but atm nothing seems super promising. warlock's only redeeming value is a cc that doesn't share DR with stuns and incaps and healthstone is good too but the complete lack of mobility and damage still renders it to be hot garbage atm

 

[jwl]

ok i added hpal just forgot to add it b4

fotm matters tho. its not what ppl just feel like playing, it is proven to b objectively better than everything else in most situations so more ppl gravitate towards it, not the other way around where its good because everyone plays it.

like sure a frost mage can kite someone a lot which is situationally good, or you can go arcane and just kill them, on top of having nova and polymorph which is plenty of cc. yeah ass rogue is pretty good at one niche thing, but pistol shot is better at more things. no single class does everything perfectly, there are just classes that far and away excel at a crucial meta role more than anything else, or classes that do many things very well.

there will always be weaker classes that are good at 'that one thing' compared to a superior spec, but that 1 thing is generally less important than what the other specs are good at in the grand scheme of things, so the other spec or another class entirely is played

easiest example is fury warrior. their melee burst damage is absolutely nuts, but it offers absolutely nothing else of value and is prone to dying to casters in a caster-heavy meta which makes it absolutely worthless in premades and a risky pick in pugs unless you have a diehard pocket healer

some classes may have undiscovered potential as we saw with feral druid later in legion, sure, but atm nothing seems super promising. warlock's only redeeming value is a cc that doesn't share DR with stuns and incaps and healthstone is good too but the complete lack of mobility and damage still renders it to be hot garbage atm

You're trying to disprove an argument I've never claimed. You can play a non FOTM and contribute to the team just as much as a FOTM does. Want a slow but dont want to play outlaw? Swap an elemental force out for Icy chill and have a much more consistent slow and save your energy for more BURST. There are ways to work around it but everybody is too stuck in their trends to think for themselves. Yeah a frost mage doesn't have nearly as much burst as an arcane, but that full uptime frostbolt that isnt getting dispelled sure will come in handy when that garbage-can rogue or warrior pop a speed pot to reach your FC. Its all a give and take.

No, I am not saying these specs are ideal, but for you to claim they should never be played is the "current meta" is a joke. Everybody is so quick to play the most brain-dead, skill-floor classes out there and refuse to even consider playing what they actually enjoy. Windwalker also has a spammable root I believe, which DRs with nothing other than frost nova. That alone makes them pretty useful.

 

[Frogturtle]

You're trying to disprove an argument I've never claimed. You can play a non FOTM and contribute to the team just as much as a FOTM does. Want a slow but dont want to play outlaw? Swap an elemental force out for Icy chill and have a much more consistent slow and save your energy for more BURST. There are ways to work around it but everybody is too stuck in their trends to think for themselves. Yeah a frost mage doesn't have nearly as much burst as an arcane, but that full uptime frostbolt that isnt getting dispelled sure will come in handy when that garbage-can rogue or warrior pop a speed pot to reach your FC. Its all a give and take.

No, I am not saying these specs are ideal, but for you to claim they should never be played is the "current meta" is a joke. Everybody is so quick to play the most brain-dead, skill-floor classes out there and refuse to even consider playing what they actually enjoy. Windwalker also has a spammable root I believe, which DRs with nothing other than frost nova. That alone makes them pretty useful.

I mean sure I see where you're coming from but this isn't really proper logic for choosing a class

let's just talk about these examples specifically

1. use icy chill as non-outlaw to have a consistent slow and save your energy for burst damage as another rogue spec

- for one thing, yes pistol shot is a strong slow, but it also does insane damage, much more than any other ranged rogue attack at 19 especially with icy chill instead of ele force, and yes it would provide a slow. a slow that may or may not proc at all, and one that I'm p sure is less than the slow on pistol shot. secondly you're giving up a ton of damage too, and if it doesn't proc/your opponent gets away from you, you're just going to get kited and die...so how will you burst with all that energy? pistol shot makes it MUCH harder to kite rogues and it will always slow and always do a lot of damage. so trying to achieve the same goal on ass rogue doesn't make much sense.

- ass rogue have dots which is nice. but so does boomkin, rsham, hunter, priest, and a bunch of other strong classes that are played a lot. who cares if a rogue can dot?

2. frost mage has 100% uptime slow which counters speed potting rogues and warriors, and can't be dispelled

- well, frost bolt also has a cast time which makes it strictly worse than concussive shot which also has 100% uptime. spriests have mind flay which can't even be escaped with a trinket so they get more value out of standing still and casting it in most situations. and once again, if someone speed pots at you, no slow is better than just killing them, which arcane does better than basically everything else. frost does have a lot of control, and works much better in a slower meta with less damage, but when people can be instakilled at 100%, frost feels really out of place most of the time. i don't see it being viable at all unless it's part of a very specialized 10v10 premade comp. its cc tools are a bit better than arcane's, but arcane's damage is WAAAAYYYY better, so arcane is already pretty good at what frost is best at and better than frost at damage by a huge margin.

3. windwalker has a spammable root

- this is true, that's actually a pretty solid ability. the problem is, they have to get into melee range to cast it, and windwalker being a squishy melee will die immediately for the disproportionately crappy reward of one applied slow. once again, conc shot is better. secondly, ww's damage is absolutely horrendous. MW does MUCH MORE DAMAGE than ww and also has insane healing. so yeah, the slow is fine, but its weaknesses are so utterly astounding that playing it makes no sense.

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the point of this isn't to argue with you, your point that other classes should be tested and explored is a good one. but you have to put classes in the context of the meta, how they sync with other classes, and whether they're worth playing overall based on that info. playing hipster stuff or your personal favorite class is fine but don't expect good results. new players want to invest time in something genuinely worthwhile. "genuinely worthwhile" can change with each patch, so a bad class today may be the best class tomorrow.

but right now, the classes that I said are bad are pretty objectively terrible, so I'm steering them away from making those choices.

you CAN contribute a lot to a game as a non-fotm class if that class is somewhat good, like MM hunter, but not if the class you want to play is absolute garbage. that's why i listed a bunch of pretty good things that aren't fotm, such as spriest

 

[jwl]

I mean sure I see where you're coming from but this isn't really proper logic for choosing a class

let's just talk about these examples specifically

1. use icy chill as non-outlaw to have a consistent slow and save your energy for burst damage as another rogue spec

- for one thing, yes pistol shot is a strong slow, but it also does insane damage, much more than any other ranged rogue attack at 19 especially with icy chill instead of ele force, and yes it would provide a slow. a slow that may or may not proc at all, and one that I'm p sure is less than the slow on pistol shot. secondly you're giving up a ton of damage too, and if it doesn't proc/your opponent gets away from you, you're just going to get kited and die...so how will you burst with all that energy? pistol shot makes it MUCH harder to kite rogues and it will always slow and always do a lot of damage. so trying to achieve the same goal on ass rogue doesn't make much sense.

- ass rogue have dots which is nice. but so does boomkin, rsham, hunter, priest, and a bunch of other strong classes that are played a lot. who cares if a rogue can dot?

2. frost mage has 100% uptime slow which counters speed potting rogues and warriors, and can't be dispelled

- well, frost bolt also has a cast time which makes it strictly worse than concussive shot which also has 100% uptime. spriests have mind flay which can't even be escaped with a trinket so they get more value out of standing still and casting it in most situations. and once again, if someone speed pots at you, no slow is better than just killing them, which arcane does better than basically everything else. frost does have a lot of control, and works much better in a slower meta with less damage, but when people can be instakilled at 100%, frost feels really out of place most of the time. i don't see it being viable at all unless it's part of a very specialized 10v10 premade comp. its cc tools are a bit better than arcane's, but arcane's damage is WAAAAYYYY better, so arcane is already pretty good at what frost is best at and better than frost at damage by a huge margin.

3. windwalker has a spammable root

- this is true, that's actually a pretty solid ability. the problem is, they have to get into melee range to cast it, and windwalker being a squishy melee will die immediately for the disproportionately crappy reward of one applied slow. once again, conc shot is better. secondly, ww's damage is absolutely horrendous. MW does MUCH MORE DAMAGE than ww and also has insane healing. so yeah, the slow is fine, but its weaknesses are so utterly astounding that playing it makes no sense.

--

the point of this isn't to argue with you, your point that other classes should be tested and explored is a good one. but you have to put classes in the context of the meta, how they sync with other classes, and whether they're worth playing overall based on that info. playing hipster stuff or your personal favorite class is fine but don't expect good results. new players want to invest time in something genuinely worthwhile. "genuinely worthwhile" can change with each patch, so a bad class today may be the best class tomorrow.

but right now, the classes that I said are bad are pretty objectively terrible, so I'm steering them away from making those choices.

you CAN contribute a lot to a game as a non-fotm class if that class is somewhat good, like MM hunter, but not if the class you want to play is absolute garbage. that's why i listed a bunch of pretty good things that aren't fotm, such as spriest

That's not the point I am trying to make either. Im not saying who can do it better, I am saying who can do it, in general. Blackballing certain classes because they're not top tier, then saying they have no role in the bracket is Ludacris. Everything can bring something to the table. I cant even say "agree to disagree" because we're both really on the same side, I'm just trying to bring a different perspective out.

PS FOTM rerolls are scums

 

[HairyTreeMan]

well lets start by listing things that u should never EVER play in current meta:

- enhancement shaman

I'm heated. Queuing enhance tonight.

 

[Frogturtle]

That's not the point I am trying to make either. Im not saying who can do it better, I am saying who can do it, in general. Blackballing certain classes because they're not top tier, then saying they have no role in the bracket is Ludacris. Everything can bring something to the table. I cant even say "agree to disagree" because we're both really on the same side, I'm just trying to bring a different perspective out.

PS FOTM rerolls are scums

you are making that point a bit though. your stance is that everything is viable in some way, but that isn't true. in an ideal world, yes, everything is good and people can play whatever they want and have a significant impact on the game, but 19s isn't that reality. the problem is the best classes generally do enough to make the worst classes completely irrelevant in every regard.

the mid-tier classes are an exception. they have unique strengths without insane weaknesses that make those strengths pointless. that's why they're viable even though they aren't the BEST.

tldr; a bicycle has wheels and can move forward just like a formula 1 race car, so they are both vehicles and can enter the same race. they both CAN do the same thing, which is roll forward faster than a human can walk, right?

well, a bike has the advantage of not using gasoline so it's more environmentally friendly and won't catch on fire if it crashes.

but that doesn't matter at all because the meta of a race is to be fast. the fact that a bike doesn't use fuel is notable, but it is so crappy and slow compared to a car that in the context of a race, that fact is completely and utterly pointless.

ww monk has a melee slow, but it's a slow crappy bicycle that gets outclassed by the formula 1 classes or even the regular car classes.

dont bring a bicycle to a formula 1 race.

dont bring a ww monk into wsg.

 

[CIHC]

I'm going to be a outlaw rogue and none of you can stop me.

 

[jwl]

Both teams had an even amount of twinks. Just a small sample of the spread damage a warlock is capable of. Weird how I pulled larger numbers than a full fang Balance druid, while fully DRing my fears on multiple targets. I'd love to show the WW as well, but not paying a 2nd sub to do so.
Before you say something along the line of "its different in a pug than it is a competitive atmosphere", it really isnt. I'll have the same kit I do now as I would in a wargame. As long as a warlock has fear, they'll bring something to the table in this bracket.
Once again, my point is, "not who can do it better, who can do it" and you're claiming that only FOTMs are capable of contributing in this bracket when that's false. WW is just as out of the discussion at 120 as it is 19, yet there are still people playing it to 2700cr

 

[Frogturtle]

Both teams had an even amount of twinks. Just a small sample of the spread damage a warlock is capable of. Weird how I pulled larger numbers than a full fang Balance druid, while fully DRing my fears on multiple targets. I'd love to show the WW as well, but not paying a 2nd sub to do so.
Before you say something along the line of "its different in a pug than it is a competitive atmosphere", it really isnt. I'll have the same kit I do now as I would in a wargame. As long as a warlock has fear, they'll bring something to the table in this bracket.
Once again, my point is, "not who can do it better, who can do it" and you're claiming that only FOTMs are capable of contributing in this bracket when that's false. WW is just as out of the discussion at 120 as it is 19, yet there are still people playing it to 2700cr


View attachment 8964

alright lets do your examples again

1. damage dealt doesn't really matter the way that people think it does. 20k points of well-placed damage can win a game over 60k of useless padding damage, which is what warlocks do. their burst is garbo and burst matters a lot in this meta.

yes, fear is a strong ability, and always has been. but you are putting your team at a deficit when you play warlock because of its terrible burst damage and mobility. I cannot stress enough how crucial burst damage and mobility are at 19. warlock is definitely better than some of the absolute worst specs but it's still a burden to have one on your team

if that druid was competing for you with damage instead of playing objectives, then he's a bad druid. balance's job is a hybrid of mid pressure and objective control and they should be bursting targets instead of trying to pad

2. you do not play most classes the same way in pugs as you would in a war game. i play objectives a lot on my mw monk and roll up to merk people with melee attacks in pugs.

in premades I absolutely have to backline heal my ass off 100% of the time unless im alt FCing. this happens very rarely in pugs and I would get punished insanely hard for going aggro in a premade instead of healing

3. for like the 3rd or 4th time I said many mid-tier classes can contribute to games such as spriest, mm hunter and so on which are not fotm picks

4. of course people can get high rating at max lvl as ww, you have like 7x the amount of abilities and so do the people you play with which results in WAY more potential for different kinds of unexpected plays

at 19, every single aspect of ww is worse than mw except disable. a melee ranged slow is not going to open up new possibilities for ww monk when MW does its job and more 100x better. mw does more damage. mw does more healing. mw can alt FC. mw can hold a huge amount of burst damage. mw has better resource management. mw has crackling jade lightning to stop restealths (ww might have this actually im not 100% sure)

it's not like 120 where ww has many VERY different abilities from mw. at 19 it's just mw with crappier versions of the same tool.

it sucks. period.

also if that 2700cr is pertaining to arenas then that doesn't even matter because we're talking about BGs and not arenas

 

[jwl]

@Frogturtle you realize fear doesn't DR with freezing trap or polymorph right now? The fact you'd be able to do a 1st rotation for 16 seconds is INSANE. That alone can make warlocks a top pick in competitive scenes. Not to mention the instant 600 damage a warlock can throw out. I guess a fair 40% of a players health isnt bursty enough for your liking.
[doublepost=1539644770,1539644680][/doublepost]Im not arguging x spec/class is better than x spec/class, Im just telling you that there is more to FOTM, but we are talking the 19 bracket, so nobody here is going to ever understand that because they reroll after every patch.

 

[worldoftears]

Dear Frogturtle,

As a new rogue player i just have to say how much i love and respect how much you help us noobs. Without you, I would probably be some random scrub who plays diablo 3 xd. First I would like to say i only listen to Pink Floyd not linkin park . Also, since I am just a lowly rogue player, what should I do if my bad skills make me miss my cobalt bomb? Since rogues are so weak rn i really need your guidance to be able to one shot these healers.

With love and admiration,

Staborslice.

 

[Puempeekstoh]

@Frogturtle you realize fear doesn't DR with freezing trap or polymorph right now? The fact you'd be able to do a 1st rotation for 16 seconds is INSANE. That alone can make warlocks a top pick in competitive scenes. Not to mention the instant 600 damage a warlock can throw out. I guess a fair 40% of a players health isnt bursty enough for your liking.
[doublepost=1539644770,1539644680][/doublepost]Im not arguging x spec/class is better than x spec/class, Im just telling you that there is more to FOTM, but we are talking the 19 bracket, so nobody here is going to ever understand that because they reroll after every patch.

ur a dimwit buddy buts its ok you out dmgd a braindead boi playin boomkin gj

 

[jwl]

ur a dimwit buddy buts its ok you out dmgd a braindead boi playin boomkin gj

Elaborate how I am a dimwit? lmao @Puempeekstoh @Puempeekstoh @Puempeekstoh

 

[Pitter]

stapler and used car have their place in the meta, this post is awful.

 

[worldoftears]

Elaborate how I am a dimwit? lmao @Puempeekstoh @Puempeekstoh @Puempeekstoh

cuz warlock gae

 

[Nitten19]

hi community pillar and god of the gulch frogturtle here BTW just got back from my seminar on how to make 5 trillion dollars in 34 seconds in the comfort of ur own home and u can too!!

"frogturt i am huge noob. wat class should i pick that is best 4 me and my playstile?" - n00b 1

"pls help me frogturtle i want to be op like u but i dont know which class 2 choose!!!!" - n00b 2

"wow frogturtle. your skills are incredible. please write a guide to help new players as we are nowhere near as qualified as you. we should hang out more btw." - every member of GSC/LSN

ok guys so u r brand new 19 player wondering which class is best 4 u there r so many specs and so many choices how do u find the 1 that will help u pwn n00bs while having fun????

well lets start by listing things that u should never EVER play in current meta:

- warlock
- frost/fire mage (these are kind of debatable but generally a bad choice 99% of time)
- ret/prot paladin
- prot warrior
- ww/bm monk
- feral/guardian druid
- enhancement shaman
- sub/ass rogue (lol ass LMAO)
- DK
- demon hunter
- necromancer
- stapler
- used car

so that leaves u with these choices:

- outlaw rogue (aka weasel spec)
- arc mage
- rsham/ele sham
- arms/fury warr
- MISTWEAVER MONK THE CLASS OF THE GODS xd
- priest (disc>holy/shadow)
- rdruid/boomkin
- hunter
- holy paladin

ok so these ^ classes here r generally what u will want 2 be playing in pugs. some of the classes on this list are way better than others but they are all more or less viable. they generally all have very different playstyles so lets talk about that a bit

outlaw rogue: rogue is a very tactical class with stealth, one of the most influential abilities at 19 and in wow overall. with the ability to position yourself anywhere without being noticed, you can always be one step ahead of the enemy team. your stuns and interrupts enable you to make huge plays that can completely sway the impact of the game. a good rogue is very respectable as it is a difficult class to play at max potential.

wait nvm this is bfa lol u just cheap shot frag bomb in opener like 99% of the n00bs that play this obnoxious class with a 1/100 successful kick ratio

pick rogue if ur a n00b that wants ez win xd LMAO weasel scum dont forget 2 play linkin park in ur inSanE CoMBo ViDEo

arc mage: press 1 button = delete enemy from 40 yds away doesn't matter if they LoS it btw channeled spells go thru walls xd u also have rly strong cc tools like frost nova and polymorph which good mages use to very strong effect, lowest skill floor class but definitely a high skill ceiling

tbh not going to bother mentioning the other specs arc is just 500x better and will never be subbed for another mage spec unless the stars align so just play this lol

resto shaman: probably the strongest solo class in the game atm as it is very well rounded. tons of strong instant cast spells, best mobile heals in the game, great mobility, huge utility with ranged aoe slow and ranged interrupt, BIG damage with flame shock DoT and doesnt really lose to anything 1v1. not a super difficult class to play at low level but something with this many options can definitely be played at a high lvl of skill.

ele shaman: worse than resto shaman in most regards but has insane on-demand burst dmg with earth shock so it's still a very strong spec. best played in organized games where u can chill in the back and build up that phat earth shock damage, a lot harder to play in rando pugs but still possible in the right hands.

arms/fury warr: really weak class on its own but with a designated healer warriors can actually steamroll n00bs all day long. all-in high dmg melee class and doesnt rly serve much of a purpose beyond that. generally id recommend fury over arms since it has more burst but either can work. not a good class to play in organized premades

MISTWEAVER MONK: as u know this is frogturtle's class of choice in this meta. mw has the highest raw healing of any class, rly strong on-demand melee burst and rly good burst mobility. if played correctly you can beat or go even with any class in the game 1v1 and anything you heal will be virtually unkillable. tricky class 2 play because it has 0 damage mitigation and is vulnerable to interrupt classes (especially rogue) but this class is still very strong and has a ton of outplay potential in the right hands. my personal fav by far thats y im the best mw to ever touch this game #frogchamp 2018 Bv)

disc priest: probs the best healer in the game overall. terrible mobility but your spells are so fkn strong it doesnt matter too much. spammable bubble, aoe fear, high dmg with penance/DoT and really strong healing. a good priest is an insane addition 2 any team so if u want to rly excel in the healer role then disc priest is the right class 4 u with and has a high skill ceiling.

holy priest: no bubble kinda sucks but high dmg and insane 100% heal on a 1 min CD. more of a duel lord class but can work in pugs and maybe even premades with the right comp, but generally disc is better.

shadow priest: rly big bubble, terrible mana problems and weak healing but the dmg is decent and mind flay is an insane mid zoning ability (REEEEAAALLY long ranged slow very annoying when trying to cross) can have a big impact in the right hands but generally needs an organized team to make it work

resto druid: p much the best FC spec in the game. ridiculous self-healing, best mobility in the game by an insane margin, stealth, strong defensive CDs, extremely hard to kill. druids are the sports cars of 19 and have been ridiculously strong in the bracket for a very long time. cant go wrong choosing to explore this class, but arguably has the highest skill ceiling by far. this class will take a lot of practice to play at a high lvl but its worth it.

boomkin: ahh yes the dreaded boomkin. imo the best spec at 19. has stealth, mobility and some of the survivability that resto has with bear form/healing BUT also has some of the most ridiculous burst damage in the bracket. being able to sneak up to someone and blast their ass to the past is the crowning glory of this spec and they are an absolutely ridiculous threat on any team. if you want to play the best thing at 19, this is probably it. very high skill ceiling like resto druid. everyone will hate u for playing this btw just like rogue/arc mage xd

hunter: one of the few classes where all 3 specs can be viable, although surv is probably the best followed by marksman and then bm. hunter is a deceptively hard class 2 play despite all the backpedaling n00bs you see infesting the bracket. lots of potential with the right keybinds and understanding of the game. some of the most respectable twinks ive seen dedicate themselves to the hunter class and make rly smart/impactful plays constantly.

surv has really strong all in/burst, great cc, can serve as an alt flag carrier, and more. highly versatile melee-heavy class with a great gap closer and solid ranged options too like serpent sting DoT, and has disengage with parachute cloak for great mobility. definitely not the stupid meme that it was in legion. like druid, hunter has a very high skill cap especially in a meta where casters destroy hunters but definitely worth it if u invest the time.

marksman is my personal fav. worse than surv in most areas but really shines in ranged zoning/harrass. has the dreaded conc shot (ranged slow) on top of trap, serpent sting and other historically strong tools at 19. like surv it has a lot of cool pet play potential with pets, disengage/para cloak, and if you are good with scope procs you can actually catch people off guard with astronomically huge crits. also a very high skill cap spec so get rdy to practice.

bm isnt total garbage but its not great. not super familiar with this spec, seems like the worst one and not many ppl play it, but it's way more similar to marks than surv. it was a lot stronger in legion but got nerfed quite a bit so i'd recommend playing marks or surv over this but it's still a hunter and has most of the good hunter tools. probs just lacking in damage for the most part.

holy paladin: has mana problems but also has rly strong tools like bubble, the dreaded hammer of JUSTICE (big stun) and generally very difficult to kill. not the most viable healer due to mana problems mentioned before but in pugs they do much better because you typically aren't standing there in a mid stalemate burning mana for 15 minutes.

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ok guys there u go hope that helps u on ur quest 2 pwn n00bs if u hav questions pm me on xpoff or in game@ frogchamp Bleeding Hollow also there are some very skilled players for each of these classes so check out the forums for twink cup players and see what they have to say! this is just a quickie intro so hope it helps somewhat

dont play mw tho thats my class get ur own lol not like ud play it better than me anyways xd LMAO

cya in the gulch n00bs if u r expert of any of these classes feel free 2 comment below i will help all of the yung pondlings become legends just u wait and see

ALSO DONT 4GET TO SUBMIT EMOJIS 4 MY EMOJI CONTEST U HAVE UNTIL FRIDAY THX

- frogturtle 2018

IT GETS WORSE WHEN HE LOSES, DON'T FRAG BELT OR HE WILL CRY.

 

[Frogturtle]

@Frogturtle you realize fear doesn't DR with freezing trap or polymorph right now? The fact you'd be able to do a 1st rotation for 16 seconds is INSANE. That alone can make warlocks a top pick in competitive scenes. Not to mention the instant 600 damage a warlock can throw out. I guess a fair 40% of a players health isnt bursty enough for your liking.
[doublepost=1539644770,1539644680][/doublepost]Im not arguging x spec/class is better than x spec/class, Im just telling you that there is more to FOTM, but we are talking the 19 bracket, so nobody here is going to ever understand that because they reroll after every patch.

jwl, iirc warlock was untouched in TC 2018. I talked to people on the top teams and some of them were thinking about trying warlock, and ended up not doing it. they know that fear doesnt DR with other stuff and still chose not to run it. you're giving up too much damage by swapping out a mage or whatever to run warlock instead. it's not just about the individual class, it's about what it contributes to the comp. warlock did amazing damage in legion, but without that damage people wouldn't have played it as much or at all.

warlock is not top pick material atm. it's just sort of annoying and has health stones. that's it. even flamer, one of the best warlocks at 19 has been playing mage.

if people want to try out warlock for themselves then that's their choice, I'd encourage anyone to play what they like to play, but I would not tell them that warlock is a competitively viable class, at least right now.

 

[Chainz]

Both teams had an even amount of twinks. Just a small sample of the spread damage a warlock is capable of. Weird how I pulled larger numbers than a full fang Balance druid, while fully DRing my fears on multiple targets. I'd love to show the WW as well, but not paying a 2nd sub to do so.
Before you say something along the line of "its different in a pug than it is a competitive atmosphere", it really isnt. I'll have the same kit I do now as I would in a wargame. As long as a warlock has fear, they'll bring something to the table in this bracket.
Once again, my point is, "not who can do it better, who can do it" and you're claiming that only FOTMs are capable of contributing in this bracket when that's false. WW is just as out of the discussion at 120 as it is 19, yet there are still people playing it to 2700cr


View attachment 8964

That screen says more about the boomkin than your warlock