notoriousthf
Born US, Raised Mexican
Then they'll fail in pre-mades forever.
Best Mutilate Daggers
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Then they'll fail in pre-mades forever.
Dorigon
Alpha and Omega
Which does nothing to address his post.
Lejn
Banned
If I'd tell you that speed pots are green I'd have contributed just as much to this conversation as you did.
Mocha
Legendary
My mistake, quoted the wrong post.
yougotcriton
Legend
I have a couple of issues with this statement.
Firstly I fail to see how moving faster would not benefit both parties equally. As the majority of defenses I have seen in WSG are kiting defenses, movement speed increases provide a terrific benefit. At the same time movement speed increases assist the offenses in the same manner.
Secondly if you argue that items that give one player and advantage over another player should be avoided since they provide an unfair advantage your argument can not stop at only consumables. That argument must be extended to every item which includes grandfathered or difficult to obtain items. Strictly speaking for rogues, that would require that no sub rogue equips a shadowfang since it is difficult to obtain currently as well as a tunic of westfall which is grandfathered.
Sneaky
Legend
Let's say the EFC and the attacking rogue speed pots. EFC is kiting and has a mage to root the rogue and everyone else who is chasing him. He runs free with his speed pot, but everyone else's speed pot has been rendered useless because of his CC mage on D. Another scenario: EFC is at 6 stacks, he speed pots and the rogue speed pots. Because the EFC is at 4+ stacks, it has no effect on him, whereas it gives the DPS class a huge advantage, which may be the cause of that FC's death.
Do you still fail to see how it doesn't benefit both parties equally? Darkflight/Travel Form + Speed Pot is yet another example that disproves your statement.
While this is true to a certain extent, a few stats gained from grandfathered gear is different than crutching on a consumable. Using a speed pot to help you 1v7 the other team's offense (by outrunning them) is much different than gaining 6 more agility by using Shadowfangs. If the level of unfairness in using GFd gear was the same as in using swiftness potions, people would be complaining about it -- just as they do in 29s with double mongoose rogues.
In most cases the players using swiftness potions are the ones with bad positioning or movement, i.e. using it as a crutch. Very rarely do you see a good player rely on a swiftness potion.
notoriousthf
Born US, Raised Mexican
I relied on them minor magic resistance potions... especially against them hunters and mages. Of course now I have to learn to play without them.
Karmaz
OG
Warsong Gulch (and almost every part of PvP in this game) is not linear, in fact, it is probably the farthest from it. Sure if the only factor in the game was movement speed and there was infinite space to continue moving an argument could be made, but this isn't the case and we don't live or compete in a hypothetical world (please don't try to take this out of context...). If you are still having trouble as to what is trying to be conveyed and would like, I can make one of my legendary paint pictures to aid you understanding of this concept.
If you wish to have a few more specific examples, Sneaky has listed some scenarios.
Additionally, a huge part of the underlying problem with similar items is the huge disparity between the benefits and little to no consequences or disadvantages. I wont go into the specifics as they seem quite obvious.
Although your second point does follow the same logic it ultimately comes down to being realistic and reasonable. These "rules" or "unwritten code" are not absolute. I would like to make this point clear: These principles are not based upon how hard and item is to obtain because that holds no relevance to the Integrity of Competition. Also these pieces that you mention (and quite frankly any that you could possibly list[with a few specific exceptions ofcoarse]) are only marginally better (relatively speaking) in comparison to someone that uses and speed pot and someone who doesn't.
Hopefully this brings some clarity to the issue.
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Karmaz
OG
Just to make clear you understand the main topic of that somewhat lengthy post, I'll accent the specific portion that pertains to your ideology.
The principle "Integrity of Competition" is not based upon how hard and item is to obtain because the variable of acquirability bears no relevance to the issue.
Enjoy,
: )
Karmaz
OG
Forums were made for open discussion on topics in which we all share a common interest in.
Although the conversation may seem like a far off tangent, I can assure you it is related and important. It might be worth your while to take a few minutes and try to understand the underlying thought and let it enlighten you.
Nakedplumber
Tink
Impish and BoA
Pump
Old School
Neither can i use no attacks either, because it doesnt heal my opponent.
Karmaz
OG
You should probably just stop right now because you are making yourself look like a complete idiot. Stop taking things out of context to argue a point you obviously cannot rationalize logically.
And this is why I bash on some of the people the parruse these forums, because they are completely lost and are allowed public viewership of their nonsensical irrational garbage logic which can be held by the innocently ignorant crowd as a legitimate way of thinking.
Your welcome : )
willix
Legend
Assassination is a completely viable spec. Hemo costs 30 energy and awards 1 combo point, Mutilate costs 55 energy and awards 2 combo points. On top of that Mutilate does more than twice the damage of Hemo, so you can easily sustain higher dps throughout a fight. Eviscerate might be a good burst move for Hemo, but the sustained damage from mutilate is just much better for pressure especially on an FC or healers. The only people who prefer sub spec are those guys who can't live without their OMG BIG NUMBERS.
Silly rogues.
You are the derpiest kid in the entire game, I swear. You complain about 'unfair advantages' all day long, yet when YOU have the advantage, you don't say a word. Do you really understand just how unbalanced classes are at low levels? Compare a class that has ZERO gap closers whatsoever at 19, vs a class that has a blink, a shadowstep, disengage, charge, and reverse life grip, ON TOP OF 40% instant travel form and 25% cat form (both of which stack with minor run speed increase now).
By your logic, no druids should be using ANY of those tools, because the only way most classes have to even stand a chance at countering them is to use a consumable. A consumable which is easy to farm, and available to nearly everyone who puts forth even the slightest amount of effort.
You can make a case for consumables in premades ONLY because the organizers can make/enforce any arbitrary rule they want to. NOT because limiting consumables is the morally superior path to creating a balanced environment.
Silly rogues.
You are the derpiest kid in the entire game, I swear. You complain about 'unfair advantages' all day long, yet when YOU have the advantage, you don't say a word. Do you really understand just how unbalanced classes are at low levels? Compare a class that has ZERO gap closers whatsoever at 19, vs a class that has a blink, a shadowstep, disengage, charge, and reverse life grip, ON TOP OF 40% instant travel form and 25% cat form (both of which stack with minor run speed increase now).
By your logic, no druids should be using ANY of those tools, because the only way most classes have to even stand a chance at countering them is to use a consumable. A consumable which is easy to farm, and available to nearly everyone who puts forth even the slightest amount of effort.
You can make a case for consumables in premades ONLY because the organizers can make/enforce any arbitrary rule they want to. NOT because limiting consumables is the morally superior path to creating a balanced environment.
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Lejn
Banned
Are the numbers in your head talking again?
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