......

[Donteventrii]

That's a bunch of BS Nirise. We were great when the bracket first took off in March. When people stuck to the rules. No Hunters. No GF weapons. No OP consumables. Alliance won every game the first two nights. To remedy this, several of us on WR faction changed to Horde. For months, the bracket prospered with balance, banned consumables, weapons, and classes. Then Ryan comes back and reignites DetoX, Hunters, and GF weapons. The bracket went to shit.



We were fantastic as a united group of players looking to have casual pvp. But when players decided they weren't going to try to fit in, we started complaining, and rightfully so. We wanted what we had. To many of us, it isn't worth putting in effort if outsiders won't join in the kind of fun we want to have.

 

[rubikz]

so your argument is that people participating in the bracket made it go to shit. rofl



look, i don't know what to tell you. i've been in games playing against 3 hunters as the only hunter on the team. i've fought against NS hunters and SB rogues. you might not believe it, but it's possible (and, in my experience, not too difficult) to win. that means your first resort should not be to complain. i'm sure this is new to you. you can have some time to figure it out.



you are throwing all this random BS against the wall about consumables and GF weapons, hoping something will stick for your argument. in reality, both you and i know that the outcome of games was not determined by an iron grenade or a skullbreaker or even a nailsplitter.

 

[soskanky]

Rubikz logic has no place in this bracket.

 

[rubikz]

Rubikz logic has no place in this bracket.

so funny story here



guy preaches for "a prospering bracket with balance, banned consumables, weapons, and classes"

i approach this guy to premade, and he wants to run 4 paladins and tries to get us to allow multiple pieces of GF gear which only his team has access to

 

[soskanky]

so funny story here



guy preaches for "a prospering bracket with balance, banned consumables, weapons, and classes"

i approach this guy to premade, and he wants to run 4 paladins and tries to get us to allow multiple pieces of GF gear which only his team has access to

Dont forget wanted everyone to reroll/race change because humans are OP

 

[soskanky]

ROFL. Check your pms

 

[Ohai]

Why 29s Died​

by W. Bernzington, CFA, Slam Dunk King​

29z is full of trash like megumi what dont queue because is a butthurt 16 year old gurl and mad 4 skullbreaker because is not have. Fcftw mad penis envy bern because am slam dunk kinging while fcftw hit by car because like 2 dodge duels am not dodge said cars. Coco angry husband is have left and hook is suicided zakkeri join detox for greAt justice. then sam am has appoint leader himself and tell not use skullbreaker 4 me my response is all followed "Sam ur awflue"

A soulful and moving recollection of past triumphs and tragedies, everyone should read this novel.



-Ohai #1 review bullshitter

 

[Fcftw]

-Ohai #1 bullshit reviewer

fixt

 

[Daydra]

Why 29s Died​

by W. Bernzington, CFA, Slam Dunk King​

29z is full of trash like megumi what dont queue because is a butthurt 16 year old gurl and mad 4 skullbreaker because is not have. Fcftw mad penis envy bern because am slam dunk kinging while fcftw hit by car because like 2 dodge duels am not dodge said cars. Coco angry husband is have left and hook is suicided zakkeri join detox for greAt justice. then sam am has appoint leader himself and tell not use skullbreaker 4 me my response is all followed "Sam ur awflue"

Coco angry? Blasphemy!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khiG-AnETjk

 

[Megumi]

I don't think having a massive population has anything to do with it. If hunters, rogues, mages, and the like were really the problem that 29s made them out to be, those other brackets would be non existent as well, despite the perceived 'ease of access.'



I think players in those brackets would rather just not bitch and whine about everything all the time because it tends to ruin the quality of games. I mean seriously, having random people jump up into your vent channel to rage at you can only be amusing for so long...

Are you kidding? 19s are the most accessible due to the fact they used to be the first bracket you could twink. Also, thanks to BoAs leveling/gearing is very easy. 70s aren't easy to level to, but offer a wide array of quality gladiator gear for a small sum of honor. Perfect for anyone who wants a break leveling to 85 or has retired 60/70 alts that they're too lazy to level. When compared to 19s, for similar gameplay, 29s require a bit more time to level and gear choices may not be clear to those wanting to join. No use comparing 70s as they are a completely different bracket due to resilience and talents/abilities which closely resemble endgame pvp without the gear grind.

 

[Daydra]

Rihanna came out on top in the end. I wonder if Chris whatshisname still sits around crying.

 

[Megumi]

19s ran into this problem last year. While I never played in that bracket, I was shocked to find out they were struggling to get games, and the number one reason cited in the forums and on the front page of this site was how horrible players treated each other. Noob this, baddie that, crutcher over there. The 19 bracket was never known for a carebear nature by any stretch of the imagination, but even they sunk under the weight of their own vitriol. If a "massive" bracket like 19s can troll itself out of existence for awhile, then yes, I think GigzXx is spot-on when he says the complaining needs to stop.

By your logic, WoW should be completely dead thanks to all of the complaining on the forums. The problems we had were a drop in a bucket compared to the rest of the game. Also 19s weren't dead they were experiencing the same problems we had with cross realm queuing after the battlegroups merged which was eventually fixed.

 

[Ohai]

Are you kidding?

I don't... think he is. I don't think he understands that if we had a couple hundred players and the ease of access of 19 twinks being the first and go-to bracket to start twinking for 6 years, not to mention people bringing their friends in, 5-20 people quitting because games blew dicks would be a drop in the pond. When you have a queue of people waiting to play, there isn't going to be the same effect as say, one side ending games early because about 5 people quit.



Was our bracket small because of the garbage way we treated each other? Absolutely. Did we lose a lot of players to the "get better faggot" attitude we have had since day one? Yeah, I'd imagine. The complaining as well.



But you are seriously an idiot if you don't think the populations of 19s and 70s aren't dampening the effect of poor class balance and whining.

 

[Megumi]

complaining by far killed the bracket, and keeps it dead to this day.

Nirise, please tell where I said hunters are banned in the revival? I'm trying my best to get things started and trolls from other brackets come in here to argue what they think killed our bracket. We were close Thursday and it's clear to me this bracket will be resurrected. All it takes is a few new recruits and for everyone to put this issue at rest. Enough trying to get the last word.The bracket was killed however we want to believe it was. MOVE ON!

 

[soskanky]

You will not get Q's if you continue to approach things with your states of mind. You are making a fundamental mistake of trying to draw from a player base who each has their own hang up and personal feelings about why the bracket died. Sure you may get a night every once in awhile with a couple games after alot of hard work. After even a couple failed scheduled nights your numbers in q will dwindle even more though. What has been done is the bracket has shot itself in the foot growth wise and therefore sustainability wise with elitist and negative attitudes while using a dated approach. This has nothing to do with which class isOP and what gear shouldn't be allowed. Its about seeing a different approach and attitude is needed for the bracket to grow again and be sustainable. Megumii I dont agree with alot of what you have to say but I applaud you for all of your hard work. I just believe it will be too much work for the results you will get . I think focus has to be shifted with the same amount of work with a bigger payout.

 

[Daydra]

Too much forum drama and finger pointing brought on some >.< feelings about logging on each evening. Everyone sort of knew what to expect. Additionally, who reallllly wants to recruit people to a bracket that might full on attack that person the first week....

We stunted our own growth and brought on our own tormentors/grievers with our incessant whining.



We could have offered something for everyone- Hardcore premades, hunter fetishes, dominatrix style omfg they have 7 from one guild on their lineup bend and bare style pug games, missionary style with cuddling after late nite pugs...the possibilities were endless. You boys just need to learn how to play nice.

What has been done is the bracket has shot itself in the foot growth wise and therefore sustainability wise with elitist and negative attitudes while using a dated approach. This has nothing to do with which class isOP and what gear shouldn't be allowed. Its about seeing a different approach and attitude is needed for the bracket to grow again and be sustainable.

Dear God let some of this get through.



In the end everyone has a bit of a valid point. Numbers and attitudes affect player base, hunters and gf items can bring on negative attitudes slimming down an already small pool of players, to make a change it would have to be with a new mindset. Not total elimination. Realization that you can't control every aspect of every pug game. Encourage growth rather than shrinkage you can minimalize the impact it has on you on a nightly basis. Saying everything that is wrong in the bracket or even banning items (unless truely agreed upon by the whole) will only limit the players you get and bring on players looking for attention through getting a rise from the squeaky wheels. Likewise veterans attacking new players or turning away new players in each pug game as if they are not worthy to play with you will shrink the pool. OK SO WHO THE F CARES WHO IS RIGHT WRONG OR HUNG SIDEWAYS....



Work towards the goals of providing something for everyone and you will find that the bracket can thrive with some random hunters, some random horrible players, some random rule breakers, and some random qq'ers.



This bracket overcomplicated pug games, save broohaha for gm discussions with premade games. Learn to let things go, recruit some solid players on some solid classes, control yourself not others. If the primary voice is wow f'in gg's last night or wtb premades this weekend you will find yourself completely ignoring mr.joe blow pewpew that is in a game every so often.



Strong skilled core players are needed, flexibility is needed, letting go of the stick you used to beat that horse is needed, a drink may even be needed. It can be done though.

 

[GigzXx]

But you are seriously an idiot if you don't think the populations of 19s and 70s aren't dampening the effect of poor class balance and whining.

If the general consensus is that something is OP and shouldn't be there, followed by outstanding whining and bickering, a bigger bracket = a bigger exodus from the bracket. Again, bracket survivability has nothing to do with having bigger numbers. The funny part is that it wasn't the complainers who quit the bracket. It was everyone else. Detox left (the good players) and games went on. MB left (more good players), and what was left had been so far dwindled down by the negativity that it couldn't get a game.



The point to be had here is that people simply don't want to play with the people who complained at every turn. Trying to revive the bracket isn't going to change that. This bracket hasn't had games in months and you guys are STILL complaining.



Let it go?

 

[Megumi]

If the general consensus is that something is OP and shouldn't be there, followed by outstanding whining and bickering, a bigger bracket = a bigger exodus from the bracket. Again, bracket survivability has nothing to do with having bigger numbers. The funny part is that it wasn't the complainers who quit the bracket. It was everyone else. Detox left (the good players) and games went on. MB left (more good players), and what was left had been so far dwindled down by the negativity that it couldn't get a game.



The point to be had here is that people simply don't want to play with the people who complained at every turn. Trying to revive the bracket isn't going to change that. This bracket hasn't had games in months and you guys are STILL complaining.



Let it go?

Could you let it go. If you have no intention of seeing the 29s come back, then stop posting.

 

[Kirise]

That's a bunch of BS Nirise. We were great when the bracket first took off in March. When people stuck to the rules. No Hunters. No GF weapons. No OP consumables. Alliance won every game the first two nights. To remedy this, several of us on WR faction changed to Horde. For months, the bracket prospered with balance, banned consumables, weapons, and classes. Then Ryan comes back and reignites DetoX, Hunters, and GF weapons. The bracket went to shit.

Yes, but the bracket chose to stay shit after it got DetoX'd. And as more players discovered the battlegroup merge, they got greeted with increasing scorn for not following community standards that weren't as stable as we would have liked them to be.

We were fantastic as a united group of players looking to have casual pvp. But when players decided they weren't going to try to fit in, we started complaining, and rightfully so. We wanted what we had. To many of us, it isn't worth putting in effort if outsiders won't join in the kind of fun we want to have.

There's the crux of the issue: "Rightfully so". Yes, everyone was fully within their rights to complain about the lack of respect toward an established community. But in the end, it came down to choosing with whom we wanted to spend our time, and the complaining made the bracket unworthy for many people.

By your logic, WoW should be completely dead thanks to all of the complaining on the forums. The problems we had were a drop in a bucket compared to the rest of the game. Also 19s weren't dead they were experiencing the same problems we had with cross realm queuing after the battlegroups merged which was eventually fixed.

19s ran into problems the summer of 2010, before the battlegroup merge. As for complaining, 29s got to a point where every thread got deleted several times in a row. We were literally on the CM hitlist for a month. No other bracket I know of achieved that dubious distinction before or since.

Nirise, please tell where I said hunters are banned in the revival? I'm trying my best to get things started and trolls from other brackets come in here to argue what they think killed our bracket. We were close Thursday and it's clear to me this bracket will be resurrected. All it takes is a few new recruits and for everyone to put this issue at rest. Enough trying to get the last word.The bracket was killed however we want to believe it was. MOVE ON!

While I don't think I said anything about banning hunters implicitly or explicitly, your point stands. I've seen your efforts, and I appreciate them. Moreover, I've queued for planned game nights, and you're right -- the numbers are indeed growing. While I do believe the sour attitude toward all of the antics for the first half of this year hasn't subsided, I also believe 29s will not stay dead forever. Some brackets (like 69s) never had the core to overcome the challenges they faced in keeping their bracket alive. 29s, on the other hand, are some pretty stubborn %@#$ers. Led in the right direction, this bracket will see the light of day once again.

 

[Megumi]

You know the thread deletions were mostly thanks to Willyshatner and Kowdasian. Both are trolls of the bracket and it was totally unrelated to whatever anti-hunter sentiment we had going on.