arms wariors strength vs crit?

[Bestasky]

Were these experiments logged and tested by multiple people or simply by experience / memory?

Also, as far as battle grounds go, wouldn't crit scale inversely to how many holy paladins there are on the other team? =P

Numbers were tested,experienced and remembered by a lot of players on numerous occassions,they vary from class to class and lvl to lvl ofc,but it's a fact that RCG acts this way regardless of math.

First ppl who started noticing this were the top WoW players (first server/world kills-2.5 k arena raiting), who obtained the best gear in the game pvp/pve wise.

Holy palas had nothing to do with this in bg's ...you simply checked your stats and recorded fights,checked dmg meters and ofc the most obvious the numbers that flow on your screen while you play.

 

[Doodle]

Numbers were tested,experienced and remembered by a lot of players on numerous occassions,they vary from class to class and lvl to lvl ofc,but it's a fact that RCG acts this way regardless of math.

First ppl who started noticing this were the top WoW players (first server/world kills-2.5 k arena raiting), who obtained the best gear in the game pvp/pve wise.

Holy palas had nothing to do with this in bg's ...you simply checked your stats and recorded fights,checked dmg meters and ofc the most obvious the numbers that flow on your screen while you play.

Okay cool, I'll take your word for it =)

I was referring to holy paladin's Denounce, which gave a 4 second debuff that prevented the target from critical strikes. In theory 1v1 a holy paladin can almost keep you from ever critting, which would make crit builds very weak.

Hence, how many holy paladins on the enemy team. Say 10 holy paladins, would be almost a nightmare not only due to their heals, but ability to cause anyone they deem high dps to cut a huge chunk of it off while they kill them.

 

[Doodle]

Well, I decided to go with Jenny's because of the fact that I valued strength higher than 5 stam (since I've got both LFH and AGM) and the extra armor is a nice addition aswell And this is the set I use in PUGs aswell as in premades Kinda inactive atm but I'll be back whenever endgame bores me out

Oh I noticed your warrior has 13 hit rating in battle grounds, don't you need 15 to cap off the spell hit for charge? Or is charge not based on spell hit and just on melee hit?

 

[Zehj]

Orcs get a +1 expertise with axes racial, so only need 13 hit to spell cap in bgs

 

[Franciska]

Oh I noticed your warrior has 13 hit rating in battle grounds, don't you need 15 to cap off the spell hit for charge? Or is charge not based on spell hit and just on melee hit?

Charge doesn't need to be spellcapped. However TI thinks it does.

 

[Hashbrowns]

Orcs get a +1 expertise with axes racial, so only need 13 hit to spell cap in bgs

What? lol Expertise removes a players chance to be blocked, dodged, or parried. It has nothing to do with miss. You need 3% hit to cap yellows. Charge is a physical spell.

 

[Franciska]

What? lol Expertise removes a players chance to be blocked, dodged, or parried. It has nothing to do with miss. You need 3% hit to cap yellows. Charge is a physical spell.

Expertise also gives hit, but its practically useless for Warriors. Orc is a poor racial choice anyway. Who doesn't go Belf anyway? Undead is passable with the extra fear trinket but almost nobody roll a priest on Alliance or a Lock.

 

[Hashbrowns]

Expertise also gives hit, but its practically useless for Warriors. Orc is a poor racial choice anyway. Who doesn't go Belf anyway? Undead is passable with the extra fear trinket but almost nobody roll a priest on Alliance or a Lock.

^Indeed I can confirm it gives "spell" hit. Would be nice for a pally. Expertise info

As far as the thread goes, I'd keep your stats balanced. Something like this for horde chardev 10 - Mist of Pandaria - BETA

 

[Soldjah]

Expertise also gives hit, but its practically useless for Warriors. Orc is a poor racial choice anyway. Who doesn't go Belf anyway? Undead is passable with the extra fear trinket but almost nobody roll a priest on Alliance or a Lock.

Belf looks like shit IMO

 

[Franciska]

Belf looks like shit IMO

Belves will get better models when Blizz finishes them. Females are so anorexic and fit in the mailbox...

 

[CripzBlood]

Why ppl think charge doesnt needs spell hit cap? they havent played warrior?

 

[Doodle]

charge requires spell hit cap. see [MENTION=19584]male[/MENTION]'s post here

i still see ZERO data on arms str v crit

Thanks =) yeah I don't know about str vs crit but I'll probably wait until I get a BAR to test out how much damage strength gives. I do know that for protection (which is what I run at the moment due to lack of weapon) I think 2-4 strength only gives my shield slam 1-2 more damage. It's absolutely garbage, so I'm hoping the slow weapon speed on BAR will turn that strength into something more useful since Arms is mostly about instant attacks. If strength is as garbage on Arms as it is on protection, I don't see how anyone can justify using the rainbow stat necklace which gives 2+ str +1 stam to warriors over the +4 stam one. It doesn't make sense to me, but hopefully it's just me lacking BAR.

Why ppl think charge doesnt needs spell hit cap? they havent played warrior?

Well I have a level 20 f2p warrior freshly made, and even though I'm gimp as hell on all stats (hit included obviously) I never missed a charge during the 10 or so bgs I went farming for trinket honor + DMF artifacts. I've also never missed a charge during any of my pve except once during BFD/Stockades which is 5 levels higher than I am. Simply wished for confirmation.

I also wonder about what you said about a human warrior. Ideally I guess two AGM is #1 , but once the CD are down (and it's a hefty once per WSG match cd) I'm not seeing how having one extra trinket slot makes humans better than the other classes given that the expensive pvp trinket gives 8+ resil which is tied with battle master's +8 as the second best trinket slot for warriors. 12+ stamina might come out ahead if you have no pocket healer, but more often than not there are healers on both sides and even then, it's 24 stamina vs 16 resilience + battle master + darkflight/shadowmeld while as a human you sit there twiddling your thumbs, not to mention the sheer effort needed for dual AGM. At most humans go AGM + Battlemaster for no healing situations, but once again you are technically 'down' a cool down after having your 30 seconds of spot light for the rest of the match.

If this were arena, I can see the value, since once a person dies it's usually game over. But in WSG/AB, having a huge edge in one fight usually doesn't mean more than having a modest edge every 2-3 minutes. Night Elf vanish charge + 2% miss and Worgen sprint + 1% crit seem much sexier. Personally I lean towards Worgen since the extra sprint does wonders gap closing (specially against Druids). More importantly Dark Flight stacks multiplicatively (wtf spelling mistake? not according to Google >.> someone tell me how to spell) with other sources such as swiftness potion making you a nightmare to those stags and fleet footed hunters. It's not like you have access to Foreman's Gloves unless you wanna sacrifice crit or strength/stam/armor to get rid of the rest.

On the other hand, if there's any race I've noticed I felt jealous of as an Alliance warrior, it would be Blood Elf. Having an interrupt/silence when you have none, is...pretty godly. However I'm not sure if the silence makes up for the superior access to gear on Alliance side and against the plethora of racial choices. It does seem like the best Horde racial though no? Then again I just realized Pandaren's Quaking Palm does the same thing, if not better when there are no dots on the target (you can't make them anyways =P) since it'll give you 4 seconds to maybe get another mortal strike cd winded up (or even set up another charge->combo!), so yeah, never mind, unless you always find yourself hitting more than one casting target with silence >.> alliance is just way better.

Another curious question in general:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/aggramar/Yjungr/advanced

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/aerie-peak/Snacks/simple

How is it, according to armory, Snacks has 1 more top end damage than Yjungr, yet has 10 less strength? They are both using the same weapon, and there are no items with +attack power, so how is it possible for the person with 10 less strength to deal 1 more top end damage (and why only 1 and only top end?)

 

[Zehj]

Oddly enough charge needs spell cap, however you can use it when silenced. Used to play with only melee cap but moved to spell after annoying misses, havent missed a charge since

[MENTION=20194]Doodle[/MENTION] guess its to do with snacks being a ret

Shield slam scales terribly with ap - think I gain like 40 dmg on the tooltip switching from full crit to full stre gear

Worgen is best race for alli

Belf/orc for horde - toss up between a silence and burst

 

[Goesid]

orc for le expertise

and worgen looks dogshit go gnome or human

 

[Srs]

charge requires spell hit cap. see male's post here

i still see ZERO data on arms str v crit

I think Crit has its own religion, where no matter what any data says, players will insist that increased chance of crit is better than every other stat. The same goes for Strength, Agility, Int., science and actual religions.

Belves will get better models when Blizz finishes them. Females are so anorexic and fit in the mailbox...

Can you imagine undead with improved models? Why even bother with the other races, no one will play them.

 

[Sabzep]

(...)
Another curious question in general:

Yjungr @ Aggramar - Community - World of Warcraft

Snacks @ Aerie Peak - Community - World of Warcraft

How is it, according to armory, Snacks has 1 more top end damage than Yjungr, yet has 10 less strength? They are both using the same weapon, and there are no items with +attack power, so how is it possible for the person with 10 less strength to deal 1 more top end damage (and why only 1 and only top end?)

I guess; it's the difference of 25% vs 30% increased damage.

 

[hucklberry]

ptr updait today ... slam damage is increased by 50% and rage cost increased by 50% .... thoughts?

 

[Franciska]

charge requires spell hit cap. see [MENTION=19584]male[/MENTION]'s post here

i still see ZERO data on arms str v crit

Charge wasn't affected in BG's by the spellbug during 5.2 at all. I don't think Charge Stun is an ability at all. Also why is he doing it as Fury which has a 16% ish chance of missing?

I guess; it's the difference of 25% vs 30% increased damage.

Exactly. But Ret will still come out worse because it has much worse weapon damage modifying on abilties. Only TV surpasses Slam, but what is the chance you successfully pull that off? You need to waste atleast 13.5 seconds to build up 3 Holy Power.

ptr updait today ... slam damage is increased by 50% and rage cost increased by 50% .... thoughts?

What? Is this Blizzard's style of improving stuff? 50% More damage for a palpable 50% more resource cost?

 

[Doodle]

orc for le expertise

and worgen looks dogshit go gnome or human

Orc is a good contender for BE true, 42 extra attack power is nothing to laugh at given how low everyone's attack power is, and expertise is always nice. I guess BE silence simply felt more impressive, but given how hard warriors can hit the increase in damage should allow some nice kills you can't get otherwise. I also forget how Orc has a minor stun duration reduction. Between the passives and the near-equal active, it's probably a fact Orcs are better given how powerful instant heals are for healers right now as well as how easily they can kite. As a warrior, the 42 extra attack power probably doesn't translate well into a significant amount of damage on the receiving end given wearing mail, which is probably why I never noticed it. I'm sure cloth/leather wearers can feel the difference.

Still, it's a shame about the Alliance itemization. I can't see Orc objectively beating Worgen as #1 best race for warrior due to it, just like Rogues / Hunters / Feral Druids, but now that I think about it caster itemization favors Horde I believe, due to Eye Patch not being all that amazing and more important the abundant amount of critical strike gear exclusive to Horde.

As for looks, that's simply opinion and has no bearing on performance. I'm sure plenty of people find Worgen better looking than gnomes and humans. Personally while it isn't to do with the model, I find human melee special animation very bland, male or female, as well as their regular melee swing. I find the Night Elves to have the best looking regular and special melee attack animations, but again, it has no bearing on how well their race performs and is purely subjective, which others may or may not share my sentiment. Also gnome warriors have the huge unfair aesthetic advantage of having the only means to a light-saber =/ that thing looks too adorable.

Everyone can make their own personal decisions on aesthetics vs statistical advantage, but for the sake of reference and proper decision making, I believe it would be nice to keep biased comments to a minimum for the sake of future readers.

 

[Chykcha]

Not exactly question for this thread, but pretty close:
If MS ans Slam (primary Arms damage soucers) are not affected by AP (str), but rather by pure weapon damage, wouldnt Riot Stick be better than BAR? There would be some problems with hit probably, but bracers/boots/something else with hit can substitude. I'm making a warrior now and want to know your opinion.