Veteran guides / threads - Why are they in the F2P section

[Kincaide]

Fair enough. (my view I think for maximum interaction and activity of discussion of this bracket, the best thing to do would be combine everyone (since we are all in the same battlegrounds/arenas), with the caveat that there are two seperate sub-sections for guides so people know exactly where to go to for specific gearing, class, and enchanting guides.

So under 20-29 bracket Forum, there would be a forum for f2p guide section (Where vets would get their gear info). 20-29 guide section (which would include the enchants for 20 vets). And people should just be encouraged to post relevant information only for the guides. Since most vet guides are the same as f2p we can use both guide sections for what we need.

Good luck,, I know it's tough and no matter what, there will be complaints. Just got to look for the greater good, which always involves sacrifice. Which way to sacrifice... I leave it to you guys

Actually one organizational idea that I had had, which I didn't feel like it was time to take up with Shane yet, was to put ALL guides into a sub-forumed "Guide" section, and all discussion forums for different brackets into a "Discussion" section. That way conversations could be organized by bracket, while guides could be organized separately by who they apply to. Something to consider for down the road. Guides and discussion groups don't necessarily have to be tied to each other.

 

[Neon]

The rules have always been the same for F2P.

What you could get on a pure F2P in cata, if you get anything better than that your not a F2P.

I have played pure f2ps and veterans quite often.

On my veteran I feel like a 29, 1v1ing 29 hunters, etc, so I agree we should have seperate forums.

 

[Xanatos]

I just came back to wow to play veteran but while the account will be F2P from next month, I agree and think guides (gear + enchant) should be in the 20-29 section while Vets community belongs to the F2P bracket as they will have the same restriction (beside gear) / achievement hunts and are still closer to 20 trials than 29 teams trom Stormscale / Aggramar / Ravencrest EU farming 20s in premades (imo) and killing queues . I also played true F2P twinks back in Cata for awhile so I can understand why Vets are not welcome here for some.

 

[Dorigon]

A thread like this really just increases the amount of tension in the forum. Does the sight of veteran guides truly make your eyes bleed? Get over it, IMO.

 

[Srs]

There is literally no difference in gear between a fully enchanted vet and an active subscribed 20. The gear is identical. They are the same. A vet guide would be the exact same as a 20 p2p guide. You cannot tell the difference between a vet or p2p 20 by inspection. 20 p2p and vet are synonyms. I know this is hard for you all to hear, as I think many of you have been hornswaggled to the darkside. But you've got to call a spade a spade, or you're just living in a dream world.

Accounts that have access to guild looms I would still considered f2p because they are a benefit of linking, not of upgrading the account at any time. Linked f2p has been a thing for a long time, and I don't see as being nearly as big a deal as enchants.

It doesn't matter what status your account has, but to be f2p you need to have no more gear/enchants than a WoW account that has never been upgraded. Heirlooms are the exception because you can start a brand new WoW account and have access to those immediately without paying any money for that account.

 

[Footman]

There is literally no difference in gear between a fully enchanted vet and an active subscribed 20. The gear is identical. They are the same. A vet guide would be the exact same as a 20 p2p guide. 20 p2p and vet are synonyms. I know this is hard for you all to hear, but you've got to call a spade a spade, or you're just living in a dream world.

Accounts that have access to guild looms I would still considered f2p because they are a benefit of linking, not of upgrading the account at any time. Linked f2p has been a thing for a long time, and I don't see as being nearly as big a deal as enchants.

It doesn't matter what status your account has, but to be f2p you need to have no more gear/enchants than a WoW account that has never been upgraded. Heirlooms are the exception because you can start a brand new WoW account and have access to those immediately without paying any money for that account.

If you are using guild heirlooms, you have put money into your battle.net account, and are now using items that you can only get if you have paid money.

a f2p warrior with no enchants, but using guild heirlooms gains these stats in total over the pure f2p warrior:
10 strength,
18 stamina,
16 haste,
9 crit,
30 armor,
plus a 399 health heal.

It's fine if you think vets aren't welcome here. But you cannot say that guild heirlooms are still free to play... Because you have to PAY to have them!

Previously linked f2p's had no extra combat advantages over pure f2p's, only cosmetic. Unfortunately, now they DO have combat advantages.

 

[Srs]

If you are using guild heirlooms, you have put money into your battle.net account, and are now using items that you can only get if you have paid money.

a f2p warrior with no enchants, but using guild heirlooms gains these stats in total over the pure f2p warrior:
10 strength,
18 stamina,
16 haste,
9 crit,
30 armor,
plus a 399 health heal.

It's fine if you think vets aren't welcome here. But you cannot say that guild heirlooms are still free to play... Because you have to PAY to have them!

Previously linked f2p's had no extra combat advantages over pure f2p's, only cosmetic. Unfortunately, now they DO have combat advantages.

Don't have to pay any money to activate a new starter account on an old battle.net. Takes no more gold than the 10g limit on that account to get it geared to f2p enchants. "Vet" characters take thousands of gold. Heirlooms are a function of linking battle.nets, and require no gold to acquire on a brand new starter account, given your battle.net has them. Vets are a function of being a paid wow account until you let the sub expire. A vet is simply an p2p 20 with an inactive subscription.

I'm not saying that they don't belong here, necessarily. I'm just saying that anyone that thinks that vets are f2ps, is fooling him/herself.

 

[Goesid]

I do not want your pm's nor want to be tagged by you. I am not your friend because I play 29s right?

If you just google it you can find the answer from a wow mvp who has contacts with the blues about the subject. No reason to make tickets for this nonsense.

But I thought...

I did but that didn't suffice.

I see your points too, and the bad boys are the weapon enchants for sure.

But lets look at a pure f2p warrior maxed out with goggles, cloak of soldier, brilliant necklace, and 7 str 7 stam leggings, all of which are considered bis options for f2p's. (Many people fished countless fishing tournaments without fishing hat, and with scaling the goggles are damn near better for their scaled crit.

a f2p warrior with no enchants, but using guild heirlooms gains these stats in total over the pure f2p:
10 strength,
18 stamina,
16 haste,
9 crit,
30 armor,
plus a 399 health heal.

That's worth almost as valuable as a weapon enchant I'd say, and potentially will give even more of an advantage over weapon enchants.
So there is a definite power gap between pure f2p's and guild heir-loomed linked f2ps.

Ye but warrior is one of the classes that loses the most. But they have that + more enchants + weapon enchant.

Can veteran accounts use TCG redemption?

F2Ps can so don't see why vets shouldn't be able to.

 

[Neon]

Srs bsns u have to resub to activate the heirlooms in the tab so u do pay and are technically are not a 100% f2p

 

[Footman]

Don't have to pay any money to activate a new starter account on an old battle.net. Takes no more gold than the 10g limit on that account to get it geared to f2p enchants. "Vet" characters take thousands of gold. Heirlooms are a function of linking battle.nets, and require no gold to acquire on a brand new starter account, given your battle.net has them. Vets are a function of being a paid wow account until you let the sub expire. A vet is simply an p2p 20 with an inactive subscription.

I'm not saying that they don't belong here, necessarily. I'm just saying that anyone that thinks that vets are f2ps, is fooling him/herself.

vets definitely aren't cheap gold-wise to be bis you're right.

But the moment you equip guild heirlooms, that means you have logged into an account that has paid for a minimum of one months subscription, and spent (not sure of exact costs) around 2000 gold to obtain those guild heirlooms.

The gold cost and money cost between a pure f2p and a linked f2p to get those extra heirlooms, is not that much less than the extra gold it would take to go from f2p gear to enchanted vet.

You can justify it all you want. Yoy have to log into a paid and active game, and spend around 2000 gold, to aquire use of those heirlooms. Who cares if it's a new starter account that's linked. It's the same battle.net account under the same name, that has spent the same money as a vet. Therefore not f2p.

But you are right, veterans are definitely not f2p as we once thought of them. They technically are free to play, but they have at least once paid to gain advantages.

 

[BingBong]

A lot of ppl doing the "vet" thing (myself included) have been doing it for quite some time. I've been making p2p 20's for almost 2 yrs. I usually gear them, run a couple xp-off bg's, then shred the xp-on bracket til I outlevel it, then rinse & repeat. The vet concept is pretty much carte blanche for anyone to do the same. Even if you inspect achievements, you'll never really know what "that guy" on your team or theirs is up to, at this point. Linked f2p accounts are in a good position currently. Vet status to lapsed accounts is both the gift & the curse, although the curse part is pure social stigma until the toon in question unlocks xp, rerolls, or decides to say "fuck it. I love what EF/crusader/whatever is doing for me atm." I guess the gift is for ppl that are happy w/ the extra enchants that help those fledgling ferals get their kills in less than 3 button presses. [I generally refer to these people as "die-hard alliance players," but I normally get to play this bracket in suboptimal timeframes, so I may be exhibiting some selection bias in stating this.]

 

[Footman]

Ye but warrior is one of the classes that loses the most. But they have that + more enchants + weapon enchant.

Yes vets have more advantages than the guild heirlooms provide.

But: All horde agility users, both faction intellect users and strength users, they all have similar stat bonuses from the guild heirlooms.

The only ones that don't benefit as much are alliance eyepatch wearing feral druids, hunters, monks and rogues. And even they still get decent boosts with guild heirlooms.

It isn't as much of a boost you are right, but it is still an for advantage that only money can buy

 

[Neon]

Playing a pure affliction lock topping charts pure f2p is in a good spot still if u have the knowledge

 

[Srs]

vets definitely aren't cheap gold-wise to be bis you're right.

But the moment you equip guild heirlooms, that means you have logged into an account that has paid for a minimum of one months subscription, and spent (not sure of exact costs) around 2000 gold to obtain those guild heirlooms.

The gold cost and money cost between a pure f2p and a linked f2p to get those extra heirlooms, is not that much less than the extra gold it would take to go from f2p gear to enchanted vet.

You can justify it all you want. Yoy have to log into a paid and active game, and spend around 2000 gold, to aquire use of those heirlooms. Who cares if it's a new starter account that's linked. It's the same battle.net account under the same name, that has spent the same money as a vet. Therefore not f2p.

But you are right, veterans are definitely not f2p as we once thought of them. They technically are free to play, but they have at least once paid to gain advantages.

I guess I'm coming from the standpoint of being linked to an active paid account for a long time now. To get looms on a new f2p take no more effort that summoning a companion pet, or getting out my selfie camera.

To get a toon to BiS on a p2p 20 or "vet" account. takes quite a bit of gold and/or time. The main fallicy I see in the whole vet is f2p argument is that people think they can just get BiS once, and never activate it again. But as I have learned from p2p and f2p twinking, is that blizzard is constantly changing things. Think about scaling of gear. How many times have you had to update your toons in the last year or so?

On my p2ps, I've had to constantly update my toons due to scaling changes and whatnot. So, this "one time deal" with vets, I think, will turn out to be more of a monetary commitment than people think. I see vets as having to periodically sub, so they can update from time to time. At some point, you all might get to the point where you are subbed more often than not. Which is all part of Blizzard's evil plan.

 

[Footman]

I guess I'm coming from the standpoint of being linked to an active paid account for a long time now. To get looms on a new f2p take no more effort that summoning a companion pet, or getting out my selfie camera.

To get a toon to BiS on a p2p 20 or "vet" account. takes quite a bit of gold and/or time. The main fallicy I see in the whole vet is f2p argument is that people think they can just get BiS once, and never activate it again. But as I have learned from p2p and f2p twinking, is that blizzard is constantly changing things. Think about scaling of gear. How many times have you had to update your toons in the last year or so?

On my p2ps, I've had to constantly update my toons due to scaling changes and whatnot. So, this "one time deal" with vets, I think, will turn out to be more of a monetary commitment than people think. I see vets as having to periodically sub, so they can update from time to time. At some point, you all might get to the point where you are subbed more often than not. Which is all part of Blizzard's evil plan.

Fair enough stand point as heaps of people I'd say are in your position. It does make you think though: What is more free to play: A linked f2p account, where the paid account spends 6 months boosting the f2p characters, getting all the best gear, getting AGM's, buying guild heirlooms, getting professions maxed quick, and awesome transmog outfits.... Or a true trial unlinked account, that subscribes for one month, sells all their darkmoon pets, buys all the best heirlooms and enchants, and then unsubscribes again.

Aye it is a very dynamic game, and you're right with new changes come the desire to pay for one more month to re-bis your characters. If you get multiple gearsets with diff enchants though you should last until the next expansion at least. Once heirloom gloves and boots come out everyone will be wanting that new gear. Vicious cycle indeed.

 

[Goesid]

Yes vets have more advantages than the guild heirlooms provide.

But: All horde agility users, both faction intellect users and strength users, they all have similar stat bonuses from the guild heirlooms.

The only ones that don't benefit as much are alliance eyepatch wearing feral druids, hunters, monks and rogues. And even they still get decent boosts with guild heirlooms.

It isn't as much of a boost you are right, but it is still an for advantage that only money can buy

Well eyepatch wearing druids. monk hunters and rogues would lose quite a bit of agility by using the guild heirlooms over the agility wise superior smelting pants, sentinells medallion, glowing lizardscale and only lose 1 agi from using eyepatch.

I guess I'm coming from the standpoint of being linked to an active paid account for a long time now. To get looms on a new f2p take no more effort that summoning a companion pet, or getting out my selfie camera.

To get a toon to BiS on a p2p 20 or "vet" account. takes quite a bit of gold and/or time. The main fallicy I see in the whole vet is f2p argument is that people think they can just get BiS once, and never activate it again. But as I have learned from p2p and f2p twinking, is that blizzard is constantly changing things. Think about scaling of gear. How many times have you had to update your toons in the last year or so?

On my p2ps, I've had to constantly update my toons due to scaling changes and whatnot. So, this "one time deal" with vets, I think, will turn out to be more of a monetary commitment than people think. I see vets as having to periodically sub, so they can update from time to time. At some point, you all might get to the point where you are subbed more often than not. Which is all part of Blizzard's evil plan.

It's a good point and I do think a few people will fall into that but there might be a few of them that will just make a new char and play it as an f2p with looms and a guild.

 

[Syrayeda]

I guess I'm coming from the standpoint of being linked to an active paid account for a long time now. To get looms on a new f2p take no more effort that summoning a companion pet, or getting out my selfie camera.

To get a toon to BiS on a p2p 20 or "vet" account. takes quite a bit of gold and/or time. The main fallicy I see in the whole vet is f2p argument is that people think they can just get BiS once, and never activate it again. But as I have learned from p2p and f2p twinking, is that blizzard is constantly changing things. Think about scaling of gear. How many times have you had to update your toons in the last year or so?

On my p2ps, I've had to constantly update my toons due to scaling changes and whatnot. So, this "one time deal" with vets, I think, will turn out to be more of a monetary commitment than people think. I see vets as having to periodically sub, so they can update from time to time. At some point, you all might get to the point where you are subbed more often than not. Which is all part of Blizzard's evil plan.

WoD trials are available every 3 months for 10 days of free game time. you dont really need to resub. unless they remove it of course

 

[Honey Badger]

Who really a cares where people posts. Maybe we should just merge 29/f2p /vet but then again I don't care. Threads like this make people look salty. It's just the same people making these threads & posts. Lol

 

[LennywBT]

Completely agreed. Restrictions are the basis of F2Ps. Vets , get to the 20-29.

 

[Goesid]

The gold cost and money cost between a pure f2p and a linked f2p to get those extra heirlooms, is not that much less than the extra gold it would take to go from f2p gear to enchanted vet.

2k is pretty accurate however, a vet has to spend those 2k aswell as around 4.5 - 5k for cloak neck and ring enchanted aswell as somewhere between 100g and 2k for the rest of their gear depending on what enchants the want, and now toss in between 0g and 100k depending on how many BoEs they need. So no the gold difference between a linked f2p and a non linked is not bigger than between a linked and a vet.