Spiriel
Legend
Post 7.
Not "some" stats. Its more stats you gain through enchants than you have as f2p. You use enchants you belong to the 20-29 section. Its not about paying its about restrictions.
Veteran guides / threads - Why are they in the F2P section
- Thread starter AlbinoCow
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Post 7.
Not "some" stats. Its more stats you gain through enchants than you have as f2p. You use enchants you belong to the 20-29 section. Its not about paying its about restrictions.
verh
Legend
They have, and it's here.
Yeah, I wonder how people that that free to play twinking is about not paying. It's such a mystery.
I agree.
Crystalpall
the F2P PvEr
F2Ps are not only about pvp. It's also getting everything myself aspect of the game, collections etc etc.
Kincaide
Legend
All this feedback is good, and believe me, we're listening. Whatever ultimately changes, it's going to be determined by a lot of factors, primary among them being the organization of information--not by anyone's cultural definitions, which by their nature are personal and also changeable over time.
But I quoted this post in particular because danny is closest to what our thinking is right now. From an organizational standpoint, it seems that the best arrangement is to have one section for traditional 20-29 players, and one for non-traditional 20-29 players. which include both off-subscription accounts as well as starter edition accounts.
If you notice the lack of using the terms P2P and F2P in the last sentence, it is very deliberate.
On the subject of Veterans having their own section, here is the current thinking on this topic among the staff. There are two kinds of questions that a Veteran might ask: the kind that pertain to the ways in which they are like Starter accounts, and the kind that pertain to the facets they gain from subscriber accounts. 95% of questions Veterans could ask are already answered by solutions Starters have come with and posted here, or enchanting questions that Subscribers have already posted there. The last 5% pertain to questions unique to Veterans, such as best ways to farm money quickly for enchants, what the limitations of the guild access are, and things of this nature. I think most people would agree that, over time, there won't be enough new questions coming up of this nature to warrant sustaining an entire sub forum for them.
So the first of the two remaining organizational systems that we are currently considering is to have a traditional and nontraditional 20-29 section, as I stated before, where all the questions that pertain to the whole bracket get asked in the former, and all questions dealing with any non-traditional specific matter get asked in the latter. By default, this is what the community as a whole has already fallen into. And in that respect, the natural habits of you the people speak pretty loudly. Although there are apparently a few people who don't like it that way--hence this thread--that seems to be the natural flow of the community.
The other organizational system is one that many of you may not have considered, unless you've been on the site for more than three years and remember the way it was once organized. But I'm going to throw it out there so you can think about it, objectively and honestly, and determine for yourself how you would feel about it. You see, many years ago, there was no separate "F2P" section. We all posted in the (at the time) 20-24 section, and it worked for us. Because everyone has a different opinion of "purity", and because there are those who would say that no F2P could consider themselves completely pure unless they were playing Ironman Rules as [MENTION=16230]Neon[/MENTION] recently suggested, there is a strong argument that any delineation between subscriber, non-subscriber, and starter is arbitrary and only serves to fracture the community. There was never such a sense of "us" vs "them" until we were physically separated, and I think that further separating more "us's" from more "them's" is only going to make it worse. So one proposed solution to that problem is to once again reunite the entire bracket as a bracket, rather than an account type, and put everything back into one forum again.
This idea came out of left field for me too, and off the top of my head I don't know which of the staff originally had the idea, but I was around back when there were no divisions in the brackets, as were many of you. Organizationally it would solve a lot of problems for people "on the scale" between full-time Subscriber and completely "pure" Starter. If all information for one bracket is in once place, it would make finding the information you need much easier. And, I believe, in time, it would eliminate a lot of the issues we're seeing with territoriality and bias. For example there may be current subscribers who may want to try going veteran for a while, because they need to financially, but wouldn't want to face the stigma of "abandoning their community" or "sleeping with the enemy" when, in fact, let's face it folks, we're all in the same boat here. Having everyone in one section will make it socially acceptable to move from one account type to another as your needs determine, and still be accepted--as everyone should be--as a member in full standing of the community as defined by the bracket you play in.
So that's where we're at right now. Again we're fully aware that no decision we ultimately make is going to make everyone happy, and we are okay with that and prepared for that. We're listening, but we are also cognizant of the fact that vocal minorities can make a lot of noise and overwhelm the wishes of the quiet majority, so we're not necessarily going to be able to accommodate every single point of view even if it's loudly and tirelessly re-emphasized, therefore there's no reason to be anything but civil, respectful, and open-minded in any discussion that ensues.
In the end, the result will be whatever Shane wants it to be based on what he decides is most important. Please keep that very firmly in mind as you form your thoughts and ideas about this topic.
l30t53dd6p
OG
Remove the f2p section completely. Put everything in the 20-29 bracket forum. All these forms of twinking belong into that section. TI created the f2p section because of the hate it brought and the flame wars it started and bad and lazy moderation but it hasn't changed at all and I will take Op as example.
In the first place this is a subject for the general section and while he talks about "they" and seperates himself which is just hypocritical because when you click a link in his sig to check his characters, I just did the first without any need to press more, it simply showed he is a veteran while claiming the f2p section as his own. Attitude like these have to go and moderated better and you can only achieve that by placing everyone together again, not by creating more sections.
On a side note. There are no veteran accounts. They are starter editions. Veteran account is just a term people use now to differ themselves but they are simply starter editions just like.. well starter editions.
This is a twinking site, accept it and act like it. All this whiny b*tching all the time like some bunch of k*ds is getting r*tarded. You don't like if? Gt*o.
In the first place this is a subject for the general section and while he talks about "they" and seperates himself which is just hypocritical because when you click a link in his sig to check his characters, I just did the first without any need to press more, it simply showed he is a veteran while claiming the f2p section as his own. Attitude like these have to go and moderated better and you can only achieve that by placing everyone together again, not by creating more sections.
On a side note. There are no veteran accounts. They are starter editions. Veteran account is just a term people use now to differ themselves but they are simply starter editions just like.. well starter editions.
This is a twinking site, accept it and act like it. All this whiny b*tching all the time like some bunch of k*ds is getting r*tarded. You don't like if? Gt*o.
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Mrcer
OG
I like the idea of removing the segregation between f2p, vets, pure, linked f2p, restricted 20, 29s,etc. It seems to only cause more problems the more we segregate. While merging the two sub-forums together is a big step, lets face it, we are all together in the bracket. Time to put on the big boy pants and get along with your neighbors.
Soldjah
Certified goober™
The thing is though, that f2p and p2p (20-29/vet) is not the same thing. F2p got a community of it's own and it lacks the flaming and epeen part of the 20-29 forum. The 29 bracket feels more lik the 19 part of the game, where f2p is more close and helpful.
That's why I'd like them to move the veteran threads and keep the f2p forum as it is, because it's currently the most informative part of TI, don't ruin that with all the epeen contests please...
Just my 2 cents, also I'm sorry for my english. I'm currently writing from my phone which tries to autocorrect EVERYTHING....
Mrcer
OG
Either way it makes no difference to me. Tbh I think both parties need to take a xanax and get along.
#happyface
#happyface
Klinda
Legend
I think you missed the entire point of my post. I never mentioned paying or restrictions, at least not directly. I'm aware that f2ps and Vet's are different, not disputing that, what I'm saying is that our similarities with one another are common enough that it does not warrant switching sections or making a new one. I regard Vets as a part of the f2p community like many others here, does $5 automatically kick you out? That's a very opinionated question, but even if one says yes, whatever advantages that may warrant over f2ps, the difference is not great enough to split us up even further.
Also
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Soldjah
Certified goober™
The thing is, that a veteran have more in common with a 29. The enchants allow them to global f2ps, just like 29's. They are to be honest no longer a f2p, not until they play restricted. I'm not forcing people to play restricted but they shouldn't think that they are a part of the f2p community...
Digitaldreams
Legend
That's opinion though isn't it? Once the sub runs out it is indeed restricted. No, not as restricted as it once was but it's still an alternative playstyle that is different from 29s, who is anyone to deem someone not part of the community anymore? I think it is sad that longtime f2ps that may only pay $5 and never sub again may be made to feel unwelcome to show their face here anymore.
I am all for merging if it helps with bringing everyone together, more and more people will probably be going vet not counting the waves of people that will discover they can play for free when their sub lapses. This issue is going to get bigger and bigger imo unless it's merged or segrated further (and reading what Kincaide wrote I can see another sub section possibly doing more harm than good "us vs them")
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Soldjah
Certified goober™
Maybe I should have clarified, that this is the opinion of me and the people I play with. Also, with restricted I mean playing with f2p restricted gear.
Also another thing is, we're all biased in this matter (I play my f2p's without the enchants and I assume you do, since you ¨defend¨ them). You can correct me if I'm wrong on the last bit.
But as I earlier stated, the f2p forum is one of a kind on TI. Informative, friendly and barely and epeening. Keep it that way mods, don't merge us with the drama in 20-29 :<
Goesid
Twink Info Legend
What? How does upgrading a starter account make it a starter account? Veteran account is a term that blizz made to refer to accounts that are no longer paid for. Suggesting that veteran accounts are F2P accounts is one thing but to suggest they are starter editions is just moronic. If you have an account you have played and paid for since vanilla and now stop paying for it, it becomes a veteran account not a starter edition account.
If you are gonna come to this section and spew this bullshit even though you haven't played F2P in like 2 years atleast do some thinking, to say that a veteran is a starter account is just beyond all reasoning.
I get the whole, "I started the F2P scene and nobody played it before me but now that other people do it I want to distance myself from it" or maybe you imagine you had some kind of moral epiphany and you think that playing 29 is better than F2Ps and everyone should do it, I don't care but come on, this post of yours is the most moronic on this forum for quite some time.
Telling people that playing F2P is wrong and twinking started as fully geared and enchanted 19s joining a bg called Warsong Gulch 8 and then picked up the flag farmed lowbies for 2 hours then logged off until they wanted to play again and that's what it's supposed to be. Sure that's an opinion and it sure sounds like a boring scenario thinking back at it but come on. That atleast had some thoughts behind it but this post of yours lacks it. I can't stress this enough, it is one of the most idiotic things I have ever read.
Please think a little before your next post on the matter.
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l30t53dd6p
OG
The moment you put on those guild heirlooms and the new neck heirloom you threw the restrictions out of the window and became the veteran you hate so much. So why don't you want to be put in your place is a mystery. I do understand it all though, the whys and hows, I kept my f2ps f2p but that doesn't matter at this moment at all. If you don't like the drama and such and want a clean forum and all, put a stance against the moderation of the site and don't target and generalise all the players into 1 group except yourself.
l30t53dd6p
OG
Yes indeed, spew BS.. go ask Blizzard, go look into account management. Starter Edition.
Aand for your info, I recently geared a toon on AP US you bad know-it-all.
Soldjah
Certified goober™
Btw, not gonna argue this any further. We all got our own ideas on what's right and wrong, for me playing my linked F2P with looms is nothing wrong but it might be to you. But you can't say that the looms makes the difference the enchants does?
/love
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Goesid
Twink Info Legend
I just did got a blue post that said that they are just informally labled as veteran accounts by blizzard. Sorry. Your new 29? What class?
l30t53dd6p
OG
Blues do not reply in minutes.
Informally = Unofficial = Veteran Account; Official = Starter Edition.
My new 29? I haven't touched 24s in like 2 years and just played a few matches on my 29 hunter at the start. I am sure some of your friends who are mutual can confirm this. Also it was a f2p 20 on AP US.
But it's enough, I do not want to get involved in battles about f2p vs p2p that you want to stir up cause of hate.
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