Mvq
2016 TC Champion
Why is it that whenever i argue with republicans, the conversation gets derailed into irrationality and logical fallacies
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Why is it that whenever i argue with republicans, the conversation gets derailed into irrationality and logical fallacies
Chops
Soccer Dad
Mvq
2016 TC Champion
yes
MYT
Legend
Who here do you think has undying loyalty to a party? The Republicans suck far less than the loony left democrats who are openly throwing their hat in the ring with socialists. We simply aren't going to allow lunatics to turn America socialist so they can get free shit. We don't want a nation of MVQs - we like America as it is thanks
MYT
Legend
I'm neither ignorant, hate filled or racist. But any time you want to try to reeducate me, boy, feel free to give it a try.
Mvq
2016 TC Champion
Problem with America is that there isn't equal of opportunity, which there is in Denmark. If you were a true American then you'd have liberal values where the individual can craft their own identity, without being influenced by the family or environment or class.
You may think that in America, if you put in the effort then you can "make it". But the studies show, that the chance that you'll escape your parents economic class is close to 0%, and you're far more likely to follow in your parents footsteps rather than crafting your own identity.
In liberal socialist countries, we have all these things fixed. You create your own identity, because you can choose what you wanna do, poor or rich.
Mvq
2016 TC Champion
You deserve nothing if you disagree with reputable studies because it disagrees with your worldview of 'Murican Dream
[doublepost=1577065541][/doublepost]https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018...nerations-how-many-depends-on-where-you-live/
Chops
Soccer Dad
what if my position is built not on my personal status but my desire to see other people escape suffering?
Mvq
2016 TC Champion
I know right, this is socialism vs capitalism in a nutshell:
Capitalists want more poor and more rich and a low-end middle class.
Socialists want no poverty, few billionaires and vast majority at the middle class.
How can you argue against this
Yapah
Legend
Its not even the ‘murican dream, its about playing the cards u were dealt in life. If u believe u can’t move up the socioeconomic latter, u wont put in the effort to make it happen.
My grandfather was born in a village in the mountains of southwestern turkey. He didnt have shoes, electricity, or plumbing in his village. He left his home at 12 yrs old to work as a servant for a family until he was 18. He didnt see his family those years, he saved every penny he earned. With the money he saved he was able to get a loan for an industrial sewing machine. He worked every day, sacrificed instant gratification to save whatever he could. He’s 80 now and still only has 2 suits. Long story short, living extremely frugually and working 7 days a week he was able to buy a foreclosed home that was being auctioned by a bank. He renovated with his own blood, sweat and tears, rented the place out, and started building his empire. Within 3 generations he was able become one of the wealthiest men in turkey.
Like i said again, if u believe u cant move up the socioeconomic latter, thats on u.
Chops
Soccer Dad
And people all over america work that hard and never make it.
I just think that "not making it" shouldn't involve dying because insulin is more than rent or because some slumlord bought your apartment complex and doubled the rent.
Yapah
Legend
Thats why you need a society with a good sense of community (a church/mosque/synagogue does a wonderful job of that). Rather than asking the govt to help (who always fucks shit up), its much better for personal charitable contributions. My grandfather would donate 10% of his income to charities in turkey, america, and south africa. Thats how u create a better society, through tight knit communities.
Mvq
2016 TC Champion
For every success story there's dozens of horror stories of people not making it. A nice success story doesn't dispute the fact that there isn't an equal of opportunity in the US.
[doublepost=1577066955,1577066874][/doublepost]
What's the difference between a charity spreading wealth and the government, if I may ask
Chops
Soccer Dad
I dont disagree with the community aspect of it but the nature of capitalism is to alienate and atomize individuals away from each other by forcing them to compete for resources. Capitalism destroys communities.
I also dont like the idea of the poor being at the mercy of the wealthy. Universal programs do a much better job of lifting people out of poverty than fucking Bezos buying a wing at a university or some shit (which is what most of "charitable giving" the wealthy do actually is). Charities, especially those around us today and *especially* churches are notoriously bad at distributing resources. Most ends up being funneled upward to enrich the people who run the charity. See: Wounded Warriors, Susan G Komen, et al
Yapah
Legend
In california homeless people cost the govt 36k/yr/person. Yet the homelessness crisis is getting worse, because the govt has an incentive to keep homeless people homeless (Or their department gets less money). A person giving charity could actually help them get off the streets, because there isnt a fucked up incentive structure like the govt has. Also charity doesnt have to be money, a good community would give them mental support, food, shelter, ya know the things communities did before the govt said they’ll take care every little need.
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