Twink Charter - Lets get this done

Discussion in 'Site Update News' started by Broken, Dec 6, 2015.

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  1. Allybeboba

    Allybeboba Grandfathered

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    Many sites offer that feature, for donators only. And rightfully so since it cost money to maintain.

    We already have a "private" subforum of sorts here. It gets very little use.
    Have a wonderful day!

    /cheers.
     
  2. Donteventrii

    Donteventrii Member

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    The "private" forum here is nothing like the system I've described.
    Thanks for a quintessential example of the textual barf typical of your posts. Mods - this is why he gets dogged on TI. He's begging for it.
     
  3. Allybeboba

    Allybeboba Grandfathered

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    Do we or do we not have a forum for the explicit use of donors/mvp/veteran+ TI members?
    A simple Yes or No will suffice...
    And does said forum rarely, if ever, get used?
    A simple yes or no will suffice...
    You can answer yes or no questions can you not?
    A simple yes or no will suffice...
    Have a wonderful day.

    /cheers
     
  4. Donteventrii

    Donteventrii Member

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    We do. But it's nothing like what I'm describing- member created private forums, inaccessible to mods, unless explicitly invited by the creator.
     
  5. Allybeboba

    Allybeboba Grandfathered

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    In conclusion...
    Yes..
    Yes..
    No..
    Kek...

    /cheers
     
  6. Rusks

    Rusks Member

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    conqs except the "no posting anything against blizz ToS" part because we arent going to be endorsed or whatever by them so no point trying.



    ALSO I MISS THE FRONTPAGE BLOGS those were cool
     
  7. willix

    willix Veteran

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    It's not just selective moderation though, it's the entire gamut of problems that come with an under staffed volunteer crew. I get it that TI isn't a business with a revenue stream capable of employing paid staff, that's not really the point I'm trying to discuss right now. The point of having paid staff is to ensure the people you have moderating your website take it seriously, responding to issues in a timely and professional manner. Whether it's someone breaking the rules and using a thread to spew garbage, or a mod posting updates on events affecting the website/community, having some sense of importance and urgency goes a long way with a forum community. That's why I brought up the way other websites run their forums under a paid staff, as an example of the results you can get if you're willing to buy them.

    A professionally run website is what Blizzard is going to require if we ever hope to sync up with them on any level. That costs money. Probably more money than just having a website. Probably less money than a heavily trafficked professional website. Only Myrm can decide if it's worth it at this point. But without professional staff on board, that's where the problems of cronyism start when you're recruiting staff from the same pool of people that regularly traffic the website anyway.

    Why is it up to me? It's not my website. I'm not the one who is trying to set higher expectations with a new CoC. I'm just trying to help out by giving honest, blunt advice in hopes that TI actually improves in the future, especially with Legion spelling doom for a certain niche play style.

    The funds can come from a variety of places. Merchandise, premium membership, ad revenue, donations, sponsor ships, and if I'm not mistaken, Mrym seems to have money. It's not like you need to pay out a several hundred thousands of dollars a year in salaries to people. All you really need to do is pay a handful of staff part time wages and hold them to a professional standard. The kind of work we're talking about (especially while the site is this small) wouldn't be more than a part time thing for anyone at this point anyway. The kinds of things that would generate money are the kinds of things that websites already employ to make money on the internet. Most websites have ads. Most websites offer a premium membership. Most websites offer some sort of product or service to help drive revenue and traffic. If you have something people want to buy on your website, that will generate it's own traffic, completely independent of anything else you do to generate income.

    And again, it's not like TI isn't already facing the prospects of having to change completely to stay relevant (or hasn't been facing that for years). If we have a front page layout that clearly displays the different things people can do on the site (including the new things being done to generate revenue), that should be more than enough of a start to get people interested (we should probably switch to square space for the stability and superior look/function). The other part of it is to actually get content here to help generate traffic even when things aren't super busy on the e shop or w/e it is you do. Get a staff of writers, pay them part time or per article to generate regular content for the site - news, videos, guides, ect.

    If Myrm is serious about improving the site (especially if he wants to make it into something Blizzard will support) he's going to have to consider taking it in this sort of a direction. You can't just write a new CoC, weed out some bad apples, promise some new content, then call it a job well done. That's basically what's happened every single time someone new takes over TI. Here we are, still dealing with the same issues.

    My primary concern is whether or not this is even necessary. I'd also like to see what Myrm and Co hope to improve about TI in the future, before I delve into any further into the discussion.

    My experience is just that - my experience. I'm not saying that people don't come here and benefit from this website, or that people don't contribute to making it better. What I am saying is that the current state does not reflect the state of other Wow fan sites, that this place is more like a cool kids clubhouse than anything, and that if anyone wants it to be different/better, it will come at a cost.

    Titles and paid benefits are what make this website less inclusive. If I can just donate $10 and get a nifty title that separates me from everyone else, the mods will think twice about taking action against my account, especially if I'm also friends with said mods. I paid to be part of the cool kids club, I get to be treated different! I don't think having a paid membership is a bad idea, if it serves a functional purpose. Let's say that normally a person sees ads on the website when visit, but a paid member gets to remove ads and sample upcoming content before it releases. Or they get a discount on merchandise.

    There is a lot of room for creative solutions to the problems you keep bringing up. People just have to be motivated to implement them. And whether or not people are conceited is besides the point of removing those things. If you want people to feel like they can come to the site and get just as much out of it as everyone else, you can't have a cool kids club-type environment where some people are treated special and most others are not. What did I say earlier about being all inclusive? About providing a positive environment, not a negative one?

    Let's suppose for a moment, for the sake of the discussion, there was an organization on the internet that took responsibility for the low level pvp space in World of Warcraft. A group of people who took advantage of social media and sponsorships to reach all players in the pvp aspect of the game, especially as players come up in level and want to participate in competitive pvp. Imagine a place where any interested player could get all the information and community connections possible. You want a video tutorial on how to pvp basics at X level? It's there. You want some cool swag so you can show off your love of this organization? It's there. Want to see some streams of live games in progress? You got it.

    I mean, that's undoubtedly the vision that people have when they start a website like Twink Info. It might not be recognizable as the website TI is now, but that's probably a good thing, right?

    And the reason why I have 4 likes instead of 400? I don't really spend much time on TI reading posts for the sake of reading them. I'll visit from time to time if I'm bored and make a post or two if there are some interesting things to say. If I like what someone has posted, I don't really have anything to say, so I don't. I've only liked 4 posts because there have only been 4 posts I liked enough to push a button for.

    You should see my youtube history. I've given even less likes and I spend far more time on Youtube than TI.

    Seasonal depression? I'm not depressed by any means, certainly not about twinking. I have come to the realization that twinking will never be the glorious activity it once was, especially with the changes proposed in Legion. But that's just an educated opinion on the matter, not really something you can diagnose as seasonal depression. While it's true I haven't played my twinks much lately, that has more to do with juggling a full time job, family, and video games when you prefer to spend your meager play time at max level pvping. I always play max level pvp each season. Sometimes I don't have time for anything else, and a lot of the people I've twinked with have moved on as well. I have a friend's list of people who are now less than acquaintances. The people I see in BGs/arena aren't nearly as committed to Wow as I am (especially the trial account players), making it difficult to make new friends in the only active bracket you can get games for 24/7 (aside from the 90-99 bracket).

    To the contrary, I'm usually one of the people actively testing new changes on the PTR and contributing as much as I can to the wealth of knowledge people want without having to dig for it themselves. I usually look forward to the next set of changes coming down the pipeline because his game is typically far from the ideal I envision it could be. I spent the last 9 months of MoP playing exclusive wargames with a small group of regulars at level 29 when the rest of the world thought they were dead. I spent the last 9 months of Cata collecting and posting data while prepping twinks for upcoming changes. I spent the last 2 months of WotlK farming the shit out of all the grandfathered gear and items on all my toons, doing what I could to make sure I didn't miss something. I spent the last 6 months of TBC playing the shit out of 29s and 39s oblivious to WOTLK changes because at that point the game was all about making twinks and pvping, not sitting on forums bitching about changes.

    And yeah, 3.2 DID kill twinking. You don't remember the sudden drop off in activity the day 3.2 went live? You don't remember the addition of XP to BGs forcing entire brackets to migrate servers so they could actually force XP off pops with fellow twinks? You don't remember the headache and disappointment of having to schedule games so you could actually play your twinks? When you had to pick a bracket based on which nights you were available to participate in their games?

    You don't remember any of that? That was the death of twinking. Did it come back? Yes, it came back temporarily for the last few months of Wotlk, as people finally got organized and rallied people to the chosen servers. It also came back off and on through Cata and MoP. The naturally capped brackets have always made twinking possible, especially since patch 3.2. If you could be put into a BG simply because you haven't bought the full game yet, that means all those thousands of people playing on versions of the game still needing an upgrade (whether from trial to full or to the latest expansion), fuel activity in XP off at those natural breaks. Everyone else has to coordinate and schedule games if they want activity in their bracket.

    That's a huge issue, the primary reason why twinking is so bad right now. There's no variety in the bracket you get to play and the activity you'll be able to participate in. If you don't think twinking is dead, just ask those brackets who don't get activity. What you guys are doing at 20-29 isn't even really twinking anyway.
     
  8. Goesid

    Goesid Twink Info Legend Fancy Pants

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    Yes it's a very good idea and yes Allybeboa has never contributed to any thread on this forum.

    Let's hope Myrm runs with it.
     
  9. Allybeboba

    Allybeboba Grandfathered

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    While I am not going to quote [MENTION=12370]willix[/MENTION] 's is simply because it is long. Although, I did read all of it while ignoring the off-topic post below it. He has some very very good points.
    One only has to look at posts dating back prior to 2011 and you can will see very little of the bitching and whining that we have today. We actually had contructive posts and guides. Now, the site has none of this.
    The latest level 19 class guide was done four months ago. That is pretty recent. We are very fortunate to have a nice dedicated group of people putting out guides in the 19's community. We have plenty of level 20 guides as well, as that community provides quite a bit dating back when it was strictly Trials only. Where we need help, is in the upper tiers 29+. There are very few guides out there for new members to want to come browse TI.
    In order for TI to be successful, members(customers) have to want to come to the website. In order for that to happen, TI has to provide content/information they want to read. Not a bunch of immature people spewing vitriol at each other and telling them to "go kill yourself" or attempts at cyberbulling(which I may add is illegal in some states).
    As [MENTION=12370]willix[/MENTION] stated, when I/we first became apart of TI 6-7 years ago twinkling was flourishing. Because of TI, it has continued to flourish. Many of today's members have no idea what the "Ruin Migration" is/was or what part it played in the continuation of twinkdom.

    /cheers
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2015
  10. Allybeboba

    Allybeboba Grandfathered

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    All that will do is serve to segregate the populace of TI even more. Is that what you think the administration desires? We already have Trials separating themselves from level 20's. Level 20's separating themselves from level 29's. 19's separating themselves from level 10's. And now you wish to take it even further. You want your own little special snowflakes private forum all to your own where only "approved" TI members are allowed in? Think about how that sounds for a bit.

    /cheers
     
  11. Donteventrii

    Donteventrii Member

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    It sounds ideal at the current crossroads. This thread isn't about the administration's desire - it's what TI would like to see the admin execute.

    The public facing forum can be as you wish it - guides, guild recruitment, game night organization. A zero tolerance space for rudeness, nonconstructive posts, and senseless banter. The CoC will be enforced in that space with an iron fist.

    In private, donator-created, invite-only subforums, those who wish to discuss topics "officially" banned, or in a spirit against the wholesome rules of the CoC, may do so without moderator intervention. Moderators will not have access to such areas unless specifically invited.

    This works both ways! If you want to create a soccer-dads-gone-wild private forum for the sole reason of noob ego massage DO IT. Invite the mods so that they can combat aggressors with the long dad dick of the law.
     
  12. Allybeboba

    Allybeboba Grandfathered

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    That is where you are incorrect, my friend. As this thread is directly related to the desires of the administration.
    This thread is about the ideas for a CoC, and it is the desire of the administration to create a new CoC.
    This thread was not created to discuss your own little special private forum and segregate part of TI for your own nefarious gain. I am sure you can find a way to set up that on your Facebook page, snapchat, Twitter or tumblr.


    You see, many others and I strive to bring new people to TI to bolster our population. Many others and I welcome the new people. Many others and I help these people, welcome them, nurture them.
    Then there are a few that push people away. They are mean. They are undaunting. They make fun and ridicule new members. They want to segregate TI's population. Why? Who knows...
    The many of us want to end this and END IT NOW! Bring TI to it's former glory. I don't want to be embarrassed to link twinkinfo.com in chat when someone asks me for something me twinking advice.


    /cheers
     
  13. Mocha

    Mocha Member

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    I used to spam at the start of every game that there's guides, forums, blog posts, videos etc discussion and more on twinkinfo.com and inviting people to join the community. It was often those against me (Agonist etc) saying "Fuck twinkinfo.com" and telling people NOT to visit the site.


    Anyways, more recently I have tried to advertise ingame again and had several people completely disregard my attempts once they checked out the site. I used to receive comments on how helpful being directed to TI was, now I receive "Yeah I'm not joining that website..." and I've actually heard people in trade chat on a random dead server (Akama) where I'm the ONLY 19 on that server bring up how we ddos ourselves and advise that people interested in twinking stay away from 19s and join 29s instead.... there are 0 29s on my server as well lol. I was absolutely shocked to see that conversation being made in trade chat that I walked into and did not start. Similar things have been occurring for the past few months as well and even when I was organizing items on an alt on moon guard I saw more discussion about how shitty the 19s community is... There are NO 19s on moon guard either.


    Obviously they could have been isolated incidents, but when they happen multiple times on random servers, it makes me truly think that those whom have heard of 19s, know that everyone here is disgusting towards each other, we ddos each other, and they're completely driven away from the site / community.


    I share a similar embarrassment in recruiting people to TI but I still try to make word of it. Ultimately, most of the good casual 19s I see in games have stayed away from this site in the more recent years.
     
  14. willix

    willix Veteran

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    Do you really need anyone's permission to go off and start your own web forum? As someone who has been on both sides of the fence as a moderator and a user, I can tell you that what you're talking about sounds great on paper but it's a nightmare in practice. The status quo won't change much if we did what you're suggesting.
     
  15. Donteventrii

    Donteventrii Member

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    Why reinvent the wheel when with the change of a few settings, the same can be accomplished. AND it can help support the site with donations.
    It's not a nightmare on another forum I use. It encourages networking and trust.
    I'll agree to disagree on the status quo. The public facing forum can be strictly controlled with a benevolent CoC while the wild west can continue, but only to those interested in venturing out into it.
     
  16. Solipsist

    Solipsist Member

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    @myrm Broken Yde Conq

    Twinkinfo Code of Conduct Certified Edition:


    Welcome to Twinkinfo, the largest community website dedicated to twinking. We take pride in our site and allow you to express your each and every thought without any censorship (in the form of words). We want to hear your true opinion and thought on every subject. However the following rules must be followed. In this Code of Conduct we will clear out all of the bullshit. We will make it as clear and specific as possible. If you have any questions or wish to debate or challenge the content within the Code of Conduct, please do it our designated thread ''CoC Debate and Discussion''.

    These are the following offenses that breach our code, please read carefully:

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Pornographic Material:

    We here at Twinkinfo realize that as Men you are attracted via physical stimulation. This site however cannot meet that need. If you are posting pictures of ‘’hot chicks’’ make sure you can’t see any nipples or vadge. No dick pics either. Pornographic videos will start from the Second Offence.Cheers mate.

    First Offence: Warning
    Second Offence: 5 Day Ban
    Third Offence: 2 Week Ban
    Fourth Offence: Permanent Ban

    Child Porn will receive a Permanent ban.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Spamming:

    We don’t want see any Japanese love drugs or brand new ways on how to make your dick bigger. Please report these users and a Moderator will ban them as soon as possible.

    Spamming Threads:

    We only allow you to post the same thread in two sections. For example you may have a video that has 19 and f2p gameplay, and that is fine. However we don’t want to see the same thread posted in over two sections. If it applies to multiple brackets, post it in the General Twinks Section.

    First Offence: Warning
    Second Offence: Final Warning
    Third Offence: 5 day Ban
    Fourth Offence: 2 Week Ban
    Fifth Offence: Permanent Ban

    Spamming Posts:

    Continuous posting of words with no substance, for example posting the word ‘’well’’ in 15 threads, is not allowed mate.

    First Offence: Warning
    Second Offence: Final Warning
    Third Offence: 5 day Ban
    Fourth Offence: 2 Week Ban
    Fifth Offence: Permanent Ban

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Personal Information:

    Doxing aka posting someone’s personal information is not permitted, this includes: Photos, Specific Adressess* and Social Media pages. This may only be ignored if the set person approves of it being posted. This will require them to post in the thread and say ‘’I approve of my photo being in this thread’’ etc. If it is found that you are using the set persons account to post an approval you will be permanently banned.

    *Specific Addresses include Suburbs, Streets addresses and Street Numbers. If you say someone lives in Canada, New York or Africa that’s fine, ok mate.

    First Offence: 2 week ban
    Second Offence: Permanent Ban

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Scamming (Yde credit):

    A scam is defined by TwinkInfo as any occurrence in which one party fails to abide by the original transaction terms that were agreed upon by both parties, or fulfill a refund or an alternate resolution agreed upon by both parties, within 48 hours of the agreed upon time of the original transaction. If Twinkinfo Staff can verify that a scam has happened. TwinkInfo also reserves the right to withdraw at any time from any mediation between parties in a legal dispute, and offers no legal advice nor takes any legal responsibility for transactions carried out between individuals through the site.

    First Offence: Permanent Ban (upon verification)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Creating Multiple Accounts:

    Every person is limited to only one Twink Info account. Don’t be fucking around and creating multiple accounts mate. If you want to post controversial threads or argue with people, be accountable and post it on your main account.

    First Offence: 2 week ban
    Second Offence: Permanent Ban

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Promoting Exploits:

    We do not allow promotion of hacks or in-game exploits. For example, no fly hacking or how to get to the top of the Warsong Gulch map. No exploited gem sockets or how to shoot frostbolts whenever you attack.

    This also includes bot programs like Honorbuddy, Wrobot etc.

    First Offence: Warning
    Second Offence: 5 Day Ban
    Third Offence: 2 Week Ban
    Fourth Offence: Permanent Ban

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Posting Graphic Material:

    Unless it’s something on the level of a women getting violently raped or ISIS torturing people we allow you to post graphic content. Mild graphic scenes are fine. For example You may post a Kill Bill massacre scene, or a Game of Thrones battle etc. We don’t allow shit on ‘’The Serbian film’’ level however.

    First Offence: Warning
    Second Offence: 5 Day Ban
    Third Offence: 2 Week Ban
    Fourth Offence: Permanent Ban
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2015
  17. Drugs

    Drugs The Dude Abides

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    Allybeboba complaining about trolls. I truly have seen it all.

    There's a reason you are the most reported person on Twinkinfo you oblivious annoying fuck. People hate you because you are an obnoxious clown ass that posts a thousand times a day and once in a blue moon make a point that contributes anything to the conversation. Whining about being trolled. Allybeboba. Jesus.
     

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