Trial Twinking, R.I.P.

F2P bracket is very dead at the moment, I've got a level 20 rogue which i've been playing on, first of all the queue's are dog but then there is barely anyone online it seems, I see so little actual F2P twinks even in the BG's. The gap seems to be so huge at the moment between F2P and P2P, I remember the days when 24's could be solo'd by F2P's and skill could outshine level, but now it's not really the case. At least the P2P's in the bracket got a bigger advantage and less skill required, this advantage suites most of the guys playing 29's with no braincells.

Maybe at some point the gap will get smaller again? who knows. I agree with you [MENTION=727]Dancingroot[/MENTION], that motto of respect was strong was upon a time, (especially in cata) but now I suppose a most F2P's who think like that have thought "F*** this"... and I don't blame them tbh
 
Before I begin rant, I pesonally don't think this is the death of f2p. Now begins the rant.
In the immortal words of Peter Griffin "Oh my god who the hell cares?" A person actively paying or one who has paid can play in whatever bracket Blizzard allows them play. A "pure" f2p if he has the means and wants to pay once or continue to sub he can.
I have several f2ps on a connected paid account. I enjoy both my p2p and f2p toons. I play whatever I am in the mood to play, the past few fays I have been enjoying my p2p 20 DiscPriests Alli and Horde.
The point is folks can and will play whatever they enjoy. If one enjoys an OP FOTM 29 who cares? Yes it's frustrating to face them, but that does not mean the person behind the keyboard is morally bankrupt or have no skill in upper brackets. I won't call out names but one very well known Druid is very skilled in 100s or other brackets as well, and "he don't care" what bracket he plays;).
I personally don't think this is the death of the pure f2ps. All the f2ps I know are pretty hardcore and will adapt to this new paradigm.
Anyhoo that's just my 2 cents.
Thanks!
 
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One thing that would be interresting, are you still considered f2p if you use faction-changed gear? With f2p restriction(ed?) enchants ofcourse.

<3
 
One thing that no one has mentioned and I find it a key fact:

Never-paid F2Ps need to: Buy Battle Chest + Huge amount of time and effort in 1 single month

-> In order to level up and get enchants and looms for 1 or just a few 20 characters


While old-P2Ps can get them relatively easy using their old high level frozen characters

That combination is what, in my opinion, is going to stop most Never-paid F2Ps (as myself and many other) to Upgrade to Veteran and therefore, end leaving the game cause F2Ps impact in games would probably vanish...

(Of course there are F2Ps that won't become veteran just because they don't want to buy the Battle Chest, even some Old P2Ps, but that isnt the only reason not to upgrade)
 
Before I begin rant, I pesonally don't think this is the death of f2p. Now begins the rant.
In the immortal words of Peter Griffin "Oh my god who the hell cares?" A person actively paying or one who has paid can play in whatever bracket Blizzard allows them play. A "pure" f2p if he has the means and wants to pay once or continue to sub he can.
I have several f2ps on a connected paid account. I enjoy both my p2p and f2p toons. I play whatever I am in the mood to play, the past few fays I have been enjoying my p2p 20 DiscPriests Alli and Horde.
The point is folks can and will play whatever they enjoy. If one enjoys an OP FOTM 29 who cares? Yes it's frustrating to face them, but that does not mean the person behind the keyboard is morally bankrupt or have no skill in upper brackets. I won't call out names but one very well known Druid is very skilled in 100s or other brackets as well, and "he don't care" what bracket he plays;).
I personally don't think this is the death of the pure f2ps. All the f2ps I know are pretty hardcore and will adapt to this new paradigm.
Anyhoo that's just my 2 cents.
Thanks!

Careful, you may get the threat of an infraction from an overzealous moderator.
 
You've spent two posts ignoring my request for you to affirm your argument.

You've spent one post taking a quote of mine out of the context it was originally found.

That's one of the reasons I stopped arguing with him. A total lack of comprehension or just flat out purposeful ignorance. He's chosen to pick apart certain parts of a post and ignore the entirety. Not only that but it seems he has no idea what he's even arguing about since he more recently posted he was never arguing if veteran accounts were P2P or F2P and that's what we spent half the day yesterday arguing about. The final nail in the coffin for me was when I asked him if Skyrim/CoD/Diablo3 were F2P in his eyes and he said "I don't know I've never played them". Really?

Anyway, if he didn't have the moderator tag I would have assumed he was just a run of the mill troll. Even with the tag I'm not really sure.

One thing that no one has mentioned and I find it a key fact:

Never-paid F2Ps need to: Buy Battle Chest + Huge amount of time and effort in 1 single month

-> In order to level up and get enchants and looms for 1 or just a few 20 characters


While old-P2Ps can get them relatively easy using their old high level frozen characters

That combination is what, in my opinion, is going to stop most Never-paid F2Ps (as myself and many other) to Upgrade to Veteran and therefore, end leaving the game cause F2Ps impact in games would probably vanish...

(Of course there are F2Ps that won't become veteran just because they don't want to buy the Battle Chest, even some Old P2Ps, but that isnt the only reason not to upgrade)

I think most people going starter to veteran will be enlisting the help of higher level friends or using their other characters. It will be a problem for the more casual people and lone wolves but I think the majority of those who know they're going to make the switch won't have an issue.
 
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It's not like I'm playing lvl 20 becouse it's free lol.
You play restricted becouse you dont want any unfair advantages over the other players in the bracket. It's about honor and respect.
I only wish more ppl could understand that and play restricted for the sake of the bracket and maybe realize the more the challenge the more the fun/reward (Sorry dont know how to say this in english).

running premades 24/7, and doing everything possible on your main to help your f2p (an advantage maybe 80% of the bracket don't have) is you version of this?

OT: might come back if people move to a on par bracket.

Hope youre all well, and have missed me as much as I've missed you :rolleyes:
 
Careful, you may get the threat of an infraction from an overzealous moderator.

No, because he is actually on topic. You know, you should try it some time.
 
You forgot the cost of your time. Mine is pretty precious.
Just ask my clients.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

FYI: last time I spoke to one of ally's "clients" I was nearly done for curb crawling.
 
Okay okaaaaay, we should change this thread's name to "The off-topic thread"
C'mmon, guys. We all can write a walls. We all can be off-topic and write blah blah and try to make people look bad. Or make ourselves look bad. But Neon, after 10+ pages made the topic clear, so let's go back to his original intention.


just quit arguing about whether veteran accounts are f2p or p2p

if you want to argue about something argue about the viability of pure f2ps in bgs in the 20-29 bracket

argue about whether or not it is a good idea to make a veteran account in the 19s bracket

give some reasons why you will stay pure f2p, Rhaellia understood this thread pretty good

Rhaellia's post for reference:
I think it's time to stop this nonsense. Stop all this talk about 'fail to pay' or 'pay to lose' etc.

We have a great bracket. People like to talk about how it's the worst and how it's unbearably awful but this bracket has always had something the others never could have. Activity. Yes, 19s have games. Yes, 29s had games before we got merged. But we've always had games since F2P became a thing and it's almost never stopped. What other bracket has ever had that, post-XP-off? I can't think of any. We're talking years of constant pops. Is it perfect? No but it has great potential.

Our bracket has the rarest thing among any twink brackets, consistent activity. Its most precious commodity is being weighed down by imbalance, petty feuds, and general spitefulness. It's always been the bad side to this bracket, both the feud between 24s and now the merge, 29s and our gear and level differences. The feuds have generally been created by that gear and level difference, often perpetuated by arguments about our differences, completely ignoring our similarities. I would argue that probably the worst of those things is the imbalance, I think everything else stems from it too. No one likes imbalance, no one. Sure, some people like imbalance in their favor or in small doses but no one like imbalance against them. It's the very thing every PvPer hates. It's the thing that gets them all rallied up and sending angry Tweets to developers!

These things aside, we have a wonderful bracket with something none of the others have managed to maintain. Face it, F2P is popular. Who doesn't like something that's free? As a kid who was born to a middle class working family who has seen some hard times, I know the value of a dollar. I was taught to be froogle, some would say cheap. Hey, sue me! Maybe that's what made F2P accessible to me originally but it's not why I stayed. We have a large influx of newer players, people who come by, try it and stay. I was one of these players when I rolled on Aerie Peak and was a complete newbie. I never stopped, both being a F2P twink and... err being a newbie.

All I ever wanted was for this bracket to be fair. For the longest time, I thought the best way to do that was to get people to convert, to use F2P restricted gear. This was rather naive of me but I like to think my intentions were good. When I was on Aerie Peak horde I prided myself on helping newer P2Ps to the realm gear. I would give them things like Magician's Mantle, armor kits, enchants. I encouraged them to be restricted, they often agreed only to change their gear and or level later. At this time, I didn't play much at 20 but it still stung. I've always been passionate about F2Ps and this bracket. I saw it as a betrayal to my kindness and the bracket.

Up until now, there had never been both an easy and realistic way to balance the bracket. I could be wrong, veteran accounts might not even work how we expect (or even ruin the bracket) but they could be the answer. It was unrealistic to ask people to sacrifice their advantage, their power and make themselves feel weaker in the name of balance. Now, we can not only make all of us stronger BUT for free, essentially. Now we have a realistic way to balance the bracket. If we all use enchants and heirlooms we could possibly make this bracket better. Does that mean F2P as we know it is changed? Yes but don't we want a more balanced and fair bracket? I really believe that, that is in fact what most of us want. We already have the activity, now all we need is the balance and with that, the respect for each other will come naturally.

I apologize for the long post and know that I probably lost most of you somewhere at the top. I just feel very passionately about this topic. I thank any and all of you who manage to make it through my long-winded dribble bracket nonsense. Here, have some funk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezowHu_nxes
And stay on topic and make your opinions look as, well, your opinions.
 
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Hello everyone, I am new to this forum and reading ten pages of this thread and decide between whether or not write, I decided to write my opinion about what many call "the death of players test account".

To say that a veteran is a f2p or p2p is a waste of time, all understood that. The real issue is about how it would affect our gameplay, many say that this would improve the game and I agree with them. Because let's face it guys in this range in which we play, how to "win" is: "That team that has more players 29" or "The team with the best equipped 29". And no, I'm not saying it happens in all cases, but in the majority. It is impossible to January 1 vs 1, unlikely a clash two against one, possible is three to one, the better it is four to one. And it is insane like 29 players to finish playing and mock us. Let us be as good playing, knowing your class, other classes, such as battlefields, little or nothing we can do in a fight against a 29 with all enchantments, with glyphs and with good armor. What can the veteran has to balance things a bit. And my people would say: "Prove that leather straps out more."

I agree with the idea of ​​starting the account can serve as a souvenir, or something nostalgic, remembering the good times. When he said this excuse, search on 16 pages to find your name is somewhat difficult xD

On the last point given by Neon, a friend of mine told me that 10-19 range in the field of pvp is pretty good, very competitive and very entertaining (if I can confirm this, would be excellent) and why not, if any case comprase the game, that I veteran, prove that range would be something great.

To conclude my opinion, I would buy the game and if I would do veteran, is an opportunity that Blizzard is not giving to enjoy a little bit more game content, although we only focus us to pvp, would have new skills, new skill, new transfiguration (That's what I love) and new possibilities of playing with other majors at 20, are not as viable or not so simple to play. I also would want to not hail him "Death of test account", since that is causing many confrontations, instead enfoncarnos the pros and cons of veterans accounts and focus on that. As it will be called "cowards" who are planning to become veterans, it's your money, not yours. And if you want to stay as pure f2p is your decision.

Thank you very much to those who came to this point of my comment. Nice day to everyone, hope and dialogue is carried on track.

PS: if you see a cut English in some case, it is because I am using a translator. My level of English is too basic, even I am in classes to learn this wonderful language. Nice day!
 
An attempt for on-topic posting:

Being on par with 29s - what for? The 29s aren't the problem, the fotm classes (which are also a problem as 20s) in combination with enchants are. And that got something to do with the need for steamrolling people. Actually, with 6.1 I hope to see more casters like mages and warlocks because the process of gearing them is less annoying.
Being viable? Well, is a 29 a def warri more viable than a 20 arms? Roll fotm classes on 20 and you're always "viable". But I guess we all agree upon 20 spriests not being useful for anyone. :D

Upgrading? Again, what for? There was always some enemy. The 24 spriests/hunter/rogue. But being the underdog and still winning although your enemy had all advantages on his side, that is what makes f2p a special thrill. Beating others in their field with only sticks and stones.

f2p will never die, there are enough enthusiasts but lots will switch to veteran. And I guess it's okay to do so (for using the mail system or auction house) IF you stay f2p restricted. The temptation to "close the gap" will be there. Several will give in and become what most people on this forum describe as "scum" (original 29s are excluded - 24 and 19 rerollers included).




Off topic:
In my opinion, a lot of this discussion was to justify the renunciation of original f2p and to not be brandmarked as the previously described personality trash.

To address this whole "f2p is an abomination" nonsense: In my case, the main reason is to not have the pressure anymore. I've been in the endgame from 2005-2008. All this farming for gear to keep up with the rest. As f2p, it alsmost doesn't exist. Geared up my chars a long time ago and just have to upgrade one or two items to be well-geared. Log in, play some games, get back to real life. That's the real beauty. Being only f2p with its restrictions saved my grades. :p
And besides - just 15 $ per month? If you don't pay it, you save enough money to upgrade your pc every two years.
 
Assuming that we desire and helpfully include new players to "trial twinking", we might want to "define" what that means (or doesn't mean):
1) We do not pay monthly subscriptions
2) We play within set restrictions (level, gold, interactions)
3) We independently gear
4) We maximize every opportunity we can to look and play better...

Of course the effect of #4 is to turn the first three from black/white into grays. While I highly respect the concept of a "pure" or "iron man" f2per... 1) they exist within an competitive structure stacked against them; and 2) I'm not sure they actually exist (i.e. fulfill #1 , #2 , and #3 ). When coming to AP, I think I was surprised how many f2pers utilize p2p help for vanities and achieves. Ok. While i'm still a bit jealous sometimes of their cool stuff, I've come to terms and happy to be a part of the community with them. Some folks will get veteran accounts for guild fellowship and enchants. Ok. Does that mean they are no longer fulfilling #1 , #2 and #3 ?

I f2p because I disagree with subscription gaming - i think it is predatory and manipulative, and aimed at children. My struggle here is with #1 and aimed at Blizzard, not 29s or other f2pers. I'm willing to pay. But will $5 for a month to farm my own enchants break my own principle? Please give me feedback! I hope that our community will be able to communicate clearly and enjoy shared values as we work through the gray areas.
 
The TL;DR of the conversation yesterday, which I do not think was off-topic, was that paying for any advantage you use in battlegrounds or arenas makes you no different than P2Ws.

Some people won't be able to transition to Veteran for whatever reason, and they will be at a disadvantage against Veterans just as they are at a disadvantage against P2W's.

That is an indisputable fact.

No amount of comparing the $ value of a monthly subscription to the cost of a one-time payment will change that. For some, the cost of $5 is just as inaccessible as $1,000,000. Maybe they're too young to use a credit card, maybe they abhor the idea of paying money to a conglomerated company, or maybe they just don't have the money.

It's not for us to judge them, as they are the friends in the community around us who will not transition. Those of us who transition are no better than the P2W's. They see an opportunity for power, and they take it.

They have no respect for us; in fact, they have contempt. They call us poor, or leeches, or whatever name allows them to channel their anger at us.

And you would join their ranks when Blizzard hangs a "REDUCED PRICE" tag in front of your faces?

Friends, if you would go Veteran after being F2P, then you have wasted your time in this bracket for years. The opportunity to pay to win has been in front of you all this time.
 
I hope every F2P takes their personal interpretation of a worthwhile playing experience into account rather than bowing to pressures within the community when the patch hits next week. By all accounts within this thread, trial characters are currently like dogs beneath a P2P player's feet. If that makes for a fun and worthwhile playing experience for one, that's fine, but I find it difficult to believe that so many poor downtrodden souls feel the same way.
 

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