The new rogue build

[Sleyin]

Ok, everyone, go reroll his exact spec and double lifestealing, its BiS and there is no better in any situation. I am wrong. If you want to nerf yourself, be my guest.

BiS is based on spec and gear. So if you have multiple gear sets then only 1 combination would be BiS becuase you have only 1 spec at that time. If you change specs then the BiS could easily change due to that. BiS in general may have different meanings to everyone that would affect what is BiS. Are you looking for BiS - Stam? BiS - Dodge? BiS - DPS? He never said my setup is BiS anything. He just said that a lot of people do stupid things with their gear/spec. Depending on your goal, he is correct. As I stated I play sub for the utility of it and my playstyle. Spec wise on a numbers scale i'm going to bet my spec is inferior.

 

[Diiesel]

Here are my setups for specifics once again if people missed em



ARENA



character planner . arena rogue . chardev seven



CASUAL WSG



character planner . casual wsg . chardev seven



PREMADE WSG



character planner . premade rogue . chardev seven



ROGUE DUEL



character planner . rogue duel . chardev seven

 

[Falaris]

This is true gear wise, but do you respec your character between arena and WSG pops or do you spec sub to duel a rogue then run and respec differently because you are about to duel a warrior? Nope, you just change your gear depending on what you need. I carry around a ton of gear for different situations myself, hell im even logged out in SR resist rings. This thread is about Falaris spec for warsong. He stated the only thing he would really change is Firey over LS if it were a premade. He instantly got LOL NOOB, LOL above hit cap. Neither of which are accurate. Hit is more valuable due to the way it scales with level, just like dodge did back in the day (lol %90 dodge etc.). Someone really just needs to figure out on average how many more white attacks do you connect with due to the extra hit compared to the AP difference. Everyone uses Falaris low AP as an example. His armory has 199 AP, Diiesel has 222. 14 AP = 1 DPS so 222-199 = 23/14 = 1.64 DPS difference. Will the extra white hits be > 1.64 DPS? I'm no pro on theorycrafting or the math of it all but you can't just say LOL BAD SPEC with no proof other than so and so says that its bad. Player > Spec regardless but why rag on someone else suggestion for no reason other than it is different?

This one Im not _100%_ positive on, but Im fairly sure 14AP=1 point of topend, NOT 1 DPS. One point of topend means one more point of damage every 2.7 seconds (SFs attack speed), so its even less of an increase than you think.

 

[Sleyin]

When I arena, I respec, when I premade, I respec, when I play casual, I respec, to much money for ya?

You have respeced your rogue 9 times.

 

[Sleyin]

This one Im not _100%_ positive on, but Im fairly sure 14AP=1 point of topend, NOT 1 DPS. One point of topend means one more point of damage every 2.7 seconds (SFs attack speed), so its even less of an increase than you think.

Yeah, i'm at work and don't have time to %100 check everything, just throwing out some rough examples so we can get past I know because I have more gear/experience.

 

[Sleyin]

He didnt just say that his spec was best, he said his gear was the right way. There is zero reason to lose 50 ap to gain that much extra hit, especially in different situations like rogue duels where much jousting comes into play.



Edit, I didnt say I respec for every arena, I made a specific gear set that I posted earlier giving about 1300 Hp and using mostly sub but 2 points into gouge to allow me to use shadowmeld to reset and get off bandages.



What people arnt realizing is that its not all about numbers but about play style. I can give reasons to why I use specific gear in specific situations. Just ask about any of the sets I posted.

I agree that gear sets and playstyle are important, probably the most important, especially in PVP. If you read my original post, playstyle is THE reason I play sub. I'm not saying any of the specs/gear setups that you posted are wrong/bad. There is no way Falaris can run around inspecting everyone everytime they gear change. He is accurate in the fact that probably %90 of 19 rogues have no idea why they do what they just copy the other %10 that do. He stated that he doesn't have fishing hat nor 3/3 Monkeys so I don't think that he was saying i'm BiS gear sup.

 

[subpar]

You have respeced your rogue 9 times.

i lol'd wutisthis

 

[Juicy]

Twinking would be so much more enjoyable without the epeens.



More community less high school drama please.

 

[Sleyin]

[char=Azgalor]Falaris[/char]



Ive seen so many sub rogues with bad gear choices and bad talent/glyph setups that I decided to better them, and come up with what I feel is the ideal rogue setup for 19s.

I'm sure we all know people who play sub because someone else does.

You can debate the dual LS's all you want, if youre in a premade youd want your SFs to be dual fiery, for just about every other situation dual LS is better.

With his spec he says LS is better than Fiery except for premades. I agree, just as O priests like to wear MP5 sets on O, the regen helps with mana management on dispels since that will likely be your main focus.

Yes, I obviously know that I need a fishing hat, leveling herb higher (doing that now), and 3/3 wranglers. Ive been ad spamming wranglers since I transferred, Ive fished up 5 eternium lines with no hat (or any other rare fish for that matter).

Admitted that he does not have BiS gear, even for his own spec.

With a hit pot I get to 13.5% hit (16.5% with precision). Combined with 15 expertise (which is 3.75% chance to dodge/parry) means this character connects on ALOT of attacks. DPS in this bracket comes from an overpowered melee weapon, not from stacking pure AP. People just dont factor in misses into their equation often enough, or just as important dont factor in that they just die more often with 700hp than they do with 1100hp.

Blanket statement that most 19 rogues have no idea (even though there is a great sticky on here about hit rating) why people even use hit and probably don't understand many of the game mechanics. Sadly after this thread, that blanket statement is leaning toward fact.



I don't think his intentions were to imply LOL sub sucks u r dumb 1111!!!!

 

[Sleyin]

This one Im not _100%_ positive on, but Im fairly sure 14AP=1 point of topend, NOT 1 DPS. One point of topend means one more point of damage every 2.7 seconds (SFs attack speed), so its even less of an increase than you think.

I went and looked up the AP mechanic and this is what it said.



Attack power (AP) increases your base DPS by 1 for every 14 attack power.



There is a formula to convert that to average damage per swing which I will do comparing your 199 AP to and extra 50 AP so we can see the difference. Not going to factor in slice and dice etc, I just want to see how much difference 50 AP would actually make. And compare that to the comment below.

so yeah u go for ur 45738475 hit cap and when u hit me for 87 and i hit u for 180 and u wonder why ur getting pwnedremember this forum

 

[Druiddroid]

delicious pretzels

 

[Sleyin]

I need some math guru/theorycrafter to check me on this but here is what I am looking at. So 50 AP has 3.6 DPS differnece and an average damage difference of around 10 damage. Falaris armory has a DPS of 32.0 Diiesel yours had 33.6. I don't think the armory factors in hit etc. so without any other things factored the DPS is 1.6 difference. So if someone can figure out how all that is calculated we could actually see the difference in Hit vs. AP. This thread has gotten way out of hand due to no one trying to back anything up and just spout out nonsense. I may be wrong in my calculations but at least I am trying to get an answer. Lets get this away from a Falaris vs. Diiesel thread and actually figure out the difference, I for one would like to see how hit factors vs. AP at 19. I'm guessing due to the way hit scales at 19 it is more valuable than even those who advocate it thought.



Formula to convert DPS into average damage per swing.

(Weapon DPS + AP/14) * Weapon Speed

(Shadowfang DPS + Falaris AP/14) * Shadowfang Weapon Speed

(17.8 + 199/14) * 2.7

(17.8 + 14.2) * 2.7

32 * 2.7 = 86.4



Now factored in with 50 more AP.

(Weapon DPS + AP/14) * Weapon Speed

(Shadowfang DPS + Falaris AP(+50)/14) * Shadowfang Weapon Speed

(17.8 + 249/14) * 2.7

(17.8 + 17.8) * 2.7

35.6 * 2.7 = 96.12



Edit: Well time to head home from work. Thanks for giving me something to do for the last few hours.

 

[StokesTerenas]

fucking queers

 

[Falaris]

Bobbo, if my spec and setup is so bad, why did I almost do 3 times as much damage as you (while playing for objectives) in the first warsong Ive done with you, just then?

 

[Diiesel]

Bobbo, if my spec and setup is so bad, why did I almost do 3 times as much damage as you (while playing for objectives) in the first warsong Ive done with you, just then?

Did you out dps me? or have more kills or less deaths... Dont think so. You play well though, I could tell that just by watching, but Im sure you saw I know how to play my rogue as well.



As for the respec, it prolly resets when you server transfer. I had much more achievement points to.

 

[Falaris]

Did you out dps me? or have more kills or less deaths... Dont think so. You play well though, I could tell that just by watching, but Im sure you saw I know how to play my rogue as well.



As for the respec, it prolly resets when you server transfer. I had much more achievement points to.

Are you going to bother to mention the fact that I joined the game with like 12 minutes left and only had 3k less damage than you? The game with Bobbo was a different game btw.

 

[Juicy]

Funny, I was running this exact setup a while back when I played Human. I also tried 5 DW/5 Percision, which seemed to be higher DPS. I never tested the numbers, just with live gameplay.



That being said, I felt more like a warrior than a rogue. I also couldn't use my Sap > Garrote > Shadowmeld > Ambush combo with such a long CD on my stealth.

 

[bobbo]

what if i said there is no one set for a best build theres multiple sets that are awesome for different situations but not one set is universal to them all.

 

[Falaris]

what if i said there is no one set for a best build theres multiple sets that are awesome for different situations but not one set is universal to them all.

well im willing to bet money diiesel would most likely roll the living piss outta u and im almost done with my 80 so ill have boas on my rouge which undoubtfully would roll the pisso outta u. so yeah u go for ur 45738475 hit cap and when u hit me for 87 and i hit u for 180 and u wonder why ur getting pwnedremember this forum

Didnt seem that your words were validated in that first warsong we did

 

[Twinkytoes]

This thread is, imo, everything thats wrong with twinking today. Older twinking was great, back when nobody knew what the gear limits were...is it blue? Equip that shit. Good stats? Equip it. Slap the most OP enchants you can find on your gear, maybe an armor kit or two. Choose a spec that works for you. Done.



Now, everybody is worried about 2% crit, etc. I understand it, twink=the very best. But (and I know this is just me) all the spreadsheets, flowcharts, pie charts and other shit take some fun out of it.



Its an mmo, not a science. Think your build is the best? Fuuuuck year, use that shit.

Thank you. This wins the thread.