Take it up with Blizzard, not me.
- Thread starter DoogieTwink
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Zly
Grandfathered
Yes the dps meters look the same unless there are also other mythic'ed out pumpers (who care nothing about hitting buttons in a tw). As Kaxle said the others do get to hit some buttons more.
obtvso
New Member
If you join a speedrunning guild it's a given that you do so because you expect the guild/agree to run things following a specific set of rules. RDF/TW doesn't have that distinction, you can't choose a speedrunning/badge farm Q.
The only ACTUAL agreement you sign up to when joining a dungeon is that you must fill a role with the objective of defeating the enemies in it. So what if I hop in my main to farm normal DB for the enchant drop? The casters are not gonna get more than one or two casts each pull and the tanks will not be able to hold aggro. I'm not doing anything wrong, just doing what I signed up to but because I'm yolked to the gills I'm unintentionally being a dick/playing 'wrong'.
So, again, where do we draw the line? Where does one's freedom ends and someone else's starts? When are players allowed to have any agency over their actions? At twinks? At 606 ilvl?
Lastly you said
Which by definition legitimizes the play style. It's hard to accept that the perception of a play style should be negative when it's often welcomed with positive feedback.
If you worry about every situation in which you could potentially give a bad experience to someone in the game you wouldn't play the game at all. It's a very reductive way of looking at the problem.
Doogie accepts it and acknowledges it when he reponds to the guy telling him to kick rocks. Again, he's being a dickhead but that's besides the point.
And we don't really know if he was asked to adjust either as all we have is a rant happening once the dungeon is over. People share thoughts through communication like you an I are doing here.
If I run a dungeon like I'm on crack and no one seems to have a problem with it until I finish, how am I supposed to adjust anything?
Chops
Soccer Dad
I dont really have the inclination to keep repeating myself, so Im just going to highlight this little snippet I found amusing and move on
Zly
Grandfathered
I just have one last comment and then i'm not continuing this. I don't know what your doing here, I completely disagree with pretty much everything you say. Twinks are scumbags and breaking the game? People that play twinks for the most part are people that enjoy min-maxing a toon until its perfect. Same as we do at max level, I don't quit on my main until it's in bis everything at the highest level i can reach. Does it make me a scumbag because my main does 20 times the dps that a fresh 80 does? Sure there are twinks that are scumbags just as there are at max level. The people running high m+ are way more toxic than what your discussing here. You will never make everyone happy in a game where your performance is tied to how good your gear is.
obtvso
New Member
Funny you say that when your two replies to me were basically you repeating the same "What if someone doesn't like it?" platitude.
It's baffling you are acting like what I said about pulling aggro is some kind of big deal thing. Like it's still 2008 and I'm not letting the tank stack sunders or something lol. It's also curious how you conveniently left out the part in which the DPSs can't play much either but it would be a bit harder to twist that snippet into an attempt at a gotcha I guess.
If anything, you just provided me with a new angle: If you as a tank can't fulfill the expectations and standards that are agreed upon by default once getting into a dungeon, you are making the gameplay of, at least*, 3 other players unenjoyable and boring and that is a pretty scummy move.
Chops
Soccer Dad
fucking sherlock holmes here
obtvso
New Member
If you don't have the inclination to repeat yourself why is it that your first interaction with me was to repeat yourself?
Have you really entered the hostile phase in just two posts? That kind of crazy. I must say that you are not fulfilling the expectation I had and you are making this conversation very unenjoyable and boring to me. And that is pretty scummy.
Chops
Soccer Dad
I dont have the inclination to keep repeating myself. but i will this time because it seems prudent...
obtvso
New Member
Kaxle
OG
- Twink: I want to play in a way that renders everyone else unable to play and leaves them chasing after me hoping they can get into range of kills in time
- Regular Player: Hey I want to play too
- Twink: OMFG Im doing nothing wrong stfu cry to Blizz they let me do this
CroyeTchor
Member
Goodness gracious those are concerning numbers.
I my opinion you won't ever really fnd a way to please everyone. Yes twinks do have some legitimacy to play the game though I'd argue less so than paying customers (in the case of trial accounts) since, well, said customers are paying for a product that they have the full right to expect some level of quality. Twinking is quite far from being a "dominant" playstyle when compared to the generally more popular aspects of the game (be that PvE, PvP, collections, RP, ...) and can be considered niche, especially when considering the fact it is split up between a lot of levels (10, 11, anything between 10 and 19 really, 20 for trials, 19 to 69/70 for PvP, various levels such as 30 for raids).
Where am I going with this ? We twinks are a minority and as such we can't impose ourselves and our playstyle to the rest of the playerbase. Yes most people will appreciate the carry but the ones that don't (with more or less legitimate reasons might I add) can be very loud.
Yes TW content isn't made to be challenging and is really just a way to make older instance somewhat relevant via fast xp and a -more or less- exclusive currency.
Yes people that are doing it for fast levelling or currency farming will appreciate the process being sped up.
Yes for whoever is twinking it is a solid way to get currency quite fast.
And yes some of the folks that complain about twinks sometimes to so for petty reasons such as : "you did more damage than me eurghheurgeh".
But there's also cons to this that most of the "TW heroes" fail to consider.
And let's face it most of the 11 mania isn't really caused by long time pure trial or vet players / low level twinks but by a fad effect caused by exposure to the public via TW dungeons being newly accessible to lower levels. They will come and go, never sufferring any negatve repercussion from their actions, leaving the long-time players with an even worse -if that's possible- image.
- As has been mentionned several times : people still want to play their classes. Yeah that's more or less free xp but you're spending your time struggling to follow and for the majority of casual players that won't have that many alts, there's a point where the balance between free XP and being able to play the game tilts. People are not playing to not play don't you think ?
- You can just act as if nobody else is there. Yeah sure, most 11s complaining about people not enjoying what they do claim to do their runs respectfully or at least their definition of the word. This is group content in a Massively Multiplayer Online game. While spamming with a monstrous twink may be the optimal XP/currency route do you think it is the way everyone want to play ? A lot of folks do these dungeons as a way to experience dungeons they used to love back when they were relevant content (as a personal point of view any content that can be enjoyed in some way is relevant but here I'm talking about being in the current xpac). Maybe some for easy gear, a fun trinket, ... heck a lot of people don't bother with gearing and TW gear may be what they aim for.
- On the topic of the other members of the group : they're human beings that deserve some respect. You can't just ignore them and do as you please, simply assuming the way you go about playing will suit them. If you think I go a bit far talking about respect please think about it. You're denying them the ability to play which is the whole purpose of a game.
- The twink playstyle has historically been PvP focused and the PvE side, while having experienced a massive increase of popularity since SL, is mostly solo-focused. I don't think there has been a single instance in WoW history where twinks have been so implied in group content outside of PvP and the outrageous levellers farms that could happen. Yes there has been a bit more since we got Chromie Time, especially in WoD timeline during DF but it's still rather sparse. Now even without 11s, there would be trials (I very much include myself) doing these for the badges and to be fair even a level 20 can ruin a party. But ultimately it would not be as noticeable as 11s that are plainly broken.
So all that to say : twinks usually don't bother anyone (there's ofc the occasionnal person that'll feel the need to flex on levellers but not a majority) since in 99% of the cases, it'll be more efficient solo. Running 11s for TW has very little application outside of TW which requires group content (at least for farming currency/XP as the waiting for reset method isn't too efficient for that) so people will be exposed to you.
As such, you're more or less the face of twinking to the "outsiders" while not really depicting an accurate picture of the other twinks.
So to summarize my thoughts : 11s are not "exploiting" the game but they are certainly not "playing the game as intended" as OP said. TW is already some very easy content, it's meant as a way to make old content relevant again while making it quite accessible.
If people feel like you're making their experience worse and they have some justification to think so then maybe they're right to ome degree.
And while I wouldn't want to talk for long-term twinks (not considering myself as such though I do have a few years as a trial) we already don't have the best reputation and a bunch of 11s mauling entire dungeons without consideration for the group isn't gonna help with that.
Look we've had this kind of situation before, the trials being kicked out of levellers queues made tremendous noise in the community and guess what : the fact we did not consider levellers (at least a lot of us didn't) prolly didn't help us. Twinks being let loose in more widely available content is a recipe for disaster but please think that by going berserk in TW you're both doing a disservice to some folks in the groups and to the twinking community so yeah, try to not be too selfish.
OP
OP
