Take it up with Blizzard, not me.

[Chops]

You accusing people of treating other players like NPCs. But still do the same by forgeting about their agency. They can type, they can kick you - like it meant to be. Why should you care if random people like you when you following the rules?

You've removed your own agency by pretending you can only behave in one way, even if youre told its detrimental to your group.

This is just textbook entitlement. "I'm breaking the game and rendering it unplayable for others. But I shouldnt have to change my behavior, why should I care? If they dont like it they can leave"

Zero self awareness, zero sense of social obligation, zero acknowledgement of other people. Yet you bristle at being accused of treating others like NPCs? Well mate... maybe dont do that then.

 

[Zly]

I ran some tw on a fresh 80 last night for the heroic piece and the mount progress. It was just a normal group with no twinks. The tank did start out at level 71 and was just crushing it, so i ran behind him and did get to tag the bosses with one or two hits. He completely broke the game and ruined my experience so i reported him. Sorry guildie.

As i said before in my illiterate ranting, the problem is not running the instance fast. People might rationalize that is what pissed them off but the truth is they are butt hurt because a low level should not be able to do more dps than they did.

I would guess that 99.9% of the customer base doesn't care if a tw boss takes 20 seconds to kill without a twink or 10 seconds with one. You will never make everyone happy. I try to make sure groups i join are happy with going fast by asking upfront and I at least make sure they get to the bosses so they can push a button. So far, after hundreds of runs I haven't had anyone say they want to go slow.

My Mama says that alligators are ornery because they got all them teeth and no toothbrush. Do you need me to get you a toothbrush Chops?

 

[Chops]

I try to make sure groups i join are happy with going fast by asking upfront and I at least make sure they get to the bosses so they can push a button.

This is the whole thing, man. You care enough about the experience of your fellow players to care about their happiness with the run and so you ask beforehand and you adjust your behavior to make sure they can participate.

We agree!

 

[Chops]

My Mama says that alligators are ornery because they got all them teeth and no toothbrush. Do you need me to get you a toothbrush Chops?

also, credit where its due, this is kinda clever and I hope Im not the only one that gets it

 

[Zly]

In the end, none of this will make a difference. I have had perfect lvl 10 or 11 twinks since vanilla and they always get destroyed. It's just a matter of time. I would say full time time walking and the anniversary xp buff has exacerbated the issue with a lot more people making twinks. If it was still once a month we would probably still be somewhat rare

 

[BANKONE]

Options/possibilities/eventualities:

- where possible, 11s especially should try to solo, emphasis on the various methods to auto reset dungeons. This keeps twinks out of the eye of blizzard and the community who hates us in general

- if you level boost/ sell boosting you deserve whatever’s coming to you

- I’m serious, blizz might slap xpoff toons with their own dungeon queue

- blizz should really do more to enable follower dungeons for low levels. AI bot dungeons would be fair game to fly though/ exploit etc, as long as you’re alone

 

[cletus]

Options/possibilities/eventualities:

- where possible, 11s especially should try to solo, emphasis on the various methods to auto reset dungeons. This keeps twinks out of the eye of blizzard and the community who hates us in general

I'd love the option to queue for dungeons without filling. Part of the only reason I 5-man is to avoid bringing other people in so I can do what I want without anyone complaining.

Part of this is how dungeon loot works. You get less loot with less than a full group when you haven't triggered legacy loot. I really wish that weren't the case.

- blizz should really do more to enable follower dungeons for low levels. AI bot dungeons would be fair game to fly though/ exploit etc, as long as you’re alone

The problem with follower dungeons is they are terrible XP. This might be fine for farming particular items. But again, you have to deal with less loot.

 

[Shadevoid]

You've removed your own agency by pretending you can only behave in one way, even if youre told its detrimental to your group.

This is just textbook entitlement. "I'm breaking the game and rendering it unplayable for others. But I shouldnt have to change my behavior, why should I care? If they dont like it they can leave"

Zero self awareness, zero sense of social obligation, zero acknowledgement of other people. Yet you bristle at being accused of treating others like NPCs? Well mate... maybe dont do that then.

It is exactly what i dont understand.
Who said that "my way" is detrimental? No one if chat box is empty and I aint kicked.
Who said that I'm "breaking the game"? People that wear 2 green items and do not know that the game broken itself.
Yes, I can only control my own actions, but it doesnt mean that I should strive to find out and solve everyone's problems by myself. If you being a white knight for too long you start to see only peasants around. They have their own agency. That what I tried to point at with NPC remark.
I'm definitely willing to change my words and say something else instead of "accusing" though - it is kinda too far for such a small scale issue.

And I'll silverline something, cause I feel like my messages too pushy and have unintened aggresive tone.
I do not condemn any response from the group that "overperforming" player can get. Messages, kicks, blacklist - all part of the interaction, you may say a negative one, but still totally normal interaction between players in the game.
But as soon as person decide to report you for this - thats the line for me. This is the moment when reason goes out of the window and emotions thrive and I despise it whole heartly. There are no "I couldve done better" and "I guess I shouldve behave diferrenly" after that. This isnt type of person that deserve you doubting yourself.

 

[Chops]

Yes, I can only control my own actions, but it doesnt mean that I should strive to find out and solve everyone's problems by myself.

Noone is saying anything like this at all

 

[toskosa]

Kinda surprised this is still going when the whole premise is if yo step on enough toes blizzard will nerf you. Like go ahead and do what you wan but like I posted a few pages ago don't be shocked when you get hit with the nerf bat.

 

[Frogbutt]

The fact that Blizzard chooses to not allocate any resources to the trash experience of Retail WoW that is the leveling part, is not really an indication as to how it's actually intended to play out. If you get reported & banned (hopefully you do) for playing in a manner that doesn't align with the majority, that's on you.

 

[Kaxle]

 

[Shadevoid]

Kinda surprised this is still going when the whole premise is if yo step on enough toes blizzard will nerf you. Like go ahead and do what you wan but like I posted a few pages ago don't be shocked when you get hit with the nerf bat.

I wouldnt mind nerfs. And never did before. I'm not the type that hide armory and stay in the garrison all the time.

The fact that Blizzard chooses to not allocate any resources to the trash experience of Retail WoW that is the leveling part, is not really an indication as to how it's actually intended to play out. If you get reported & banned (hopefully you do) for playing in a manner that doesn't align with the majority, that's on you.

And this is the part that I'm strongly against. Ooze isnt intended, totem wasnt their intention obviously, but item level, stats and level requirements (basically gearing as a whole and translation to character power by scaling) are as intentional as it gets. You can not seriously say that "well, majority do not wear a good gear" and expect everyone to do the same. As for the manner that "allign with majority" - aint case by case approach better here? In this particular case I dissapointed that you side with people who follow emotions instead of the rules. Unfortunately I might fail your hopes, since rogues aint exactly known for their clear speed or any other reportable behaviour outside of maybe camping lowlevel players but I just cant bring myself to do it, too soft I guess.
If players wanna kick me out or avoid me - it is a social interaction in the game. If they wanna Blizzard to ban me, they appeal to authority meaning they appeal to the rules. I knew some people that did it "just in case" - I can put myself in their shoes (do not remember correctly but someone reported me for the item with high ilvl before, probably class weapons, have a vague reminisense that person couldnt believe I acquired them naturally). But those who just get mad and cant control themself should be reported back. No matter how hard your try to give them a ground to stay on, they'll lose it again and again.

*funny picture*

I understand that it is natural for people to act irrational when they get emotional. My point that in such circumctances they are clearly wrong. There are tickets for a reason.

 

[Chops]

I understand that it is natural for people to act irrational when they get emotional. My point that in such circumctances they are clearly wrong.

Just a heads up, when you're participating in a social activity, the rational thing to do is not engage in antisocial behavior.

The irrational and emotional response is "screw everyone else I'm gonna do what I want, they can leave if they don't like it"

 

[orcgazmatron]

I ran some tw on a fresh 80 last night for the heroic piece and the mount progress. It was just a normal group with no twinks. The tank did start out at level 71 and was just crushing it, so i ran behind him and did get to tag the bosses with one or two hits. He completely broke the game and ruined my experience so i reported him. Sorry guildie.

As i said before in my illiterate ranting, the problem is not running the instance fast. People might rationalize that is what pissed them off but the truth is they are butt hurt because a low level should not be able to do more dps than they did.

I would guess that 99.9% of the customer base doesn't care if a tw boss takes 20 seconds to kill without a twink or 10 seconds with one. You will never make everyone happy. I try to make sure groups i join are happy with going fast by asking upfront and I at least make sure they get to the bosses so they can push a button. So far, after hundreds of runs I haven't had anyone say they want to go slow.

My Mama says that alligators are ornery because they got all them teeth and no toothbrush. Do you need me to get you a toothbrush Chops?

B-R-O... I ran my dripping 20 Resto Shammy through the TW's & Had a lvl 70 Mythic Raid-Geared prot pally for a tank.
I wasn't doing HALF his DPS, even after he had leveled to 74 by the end of the 5 runs.
So, It's not " just Us ", but there is something different about a lvl 11;
moving at 140+% speed & shredding mob packs before you even get to them to fire an ability off.

 

[Zly]

Yes, 71 could be its own twink bracket but the difference is people understand it. People don't understand level 11 twinks and think you must be exploiting because it doesn't make sense to them. They have no concept of the time and effort that is put into a proper twink

 

[Frogbutt]

And this is the part that I'm strongly against. Ooze isnt intended, totem wasnt their intention obviously, but item level, stats and level requirements (basically gearing as a whole and translation to character power by scaling) are as intentional as it gets. You can not seriously say that "well, majority do not wear a good gear" and expect everyone to do the same. As for the manner that "allign with majority" - aint case by case approach better here? In this particular case I dissapointed that you side with people who follow emotions instead of the rules. Unfortunately I might fail your hopes, since rogues aint exactly known for their clear speed or any other reportable behaviour outside of maybe camping lowlevel players but I just cant bring myself to do it, too soft I guess.

The ability to speed through dungeons is not inherently disruptive unless it disregards the group's preferences (e.g., skipping bosses when others want to complete quests). The group's majority preference get revealed to you through being V2K'd out of the instance group.

If players wanna kick me out or avoid me - it is a social interaction in the game.

I don't think you genuinely believe (or understand) this as much as you're just saying it on a surface level. Being kicked out of instance groups repeatedly is not just indicative of the fact that you're ruining other people's experiences ("griefing") but also of you choosing to engage in that behaviour continously, with complete disregard for other people's time, or your own. If people are kicking you over and over, you have to be stupid to not change your behaviour or strategy. Whether you get banned or not is ultimately up to Blizzard to decide, indeed. But you can at least be a sensible human being and seek ways to minimize your own downtime, instead of just chalking each deserter debuff you get up to people "being emotionally impulsive". It might very well be the case that people are too quick to report, but you're the one that's ultimately suffering if you encounter this issue one too many times. Be better.

 

[Zanasis]

Theres a whole video i linked that you could watch that, while focused on pvp, is applicable to this situation.

But 14 minutes of me rambling is probably a bit much so here's the short of it: All MMOs (and most online games) are a cooperative experience. If you can but wont play cooperatively with your peers to create an enjoyable experience for everyone, thats a pretty scummy move. And as a twink, you are actively attempting (and succeeding) in not playing cooperatively with your peers.

You're breaking the game, on purpose, and subjecting other people to a broken game. Don't say "but blizzard allows it!" to dismiss your own agency. "Access is not permission" as the saying goes.

And sure, some people enjoy the carry. But some people really dont. Logging on for your scarce couple hours of free time after work, only to be subjected to some goofball hero-pulling a whole dungeon so you basically just get to play a walking simulator isnt all that fun after the novelty wears off.

As twinks, we need to recognize this fact. You can argue that people *should* enjoy the free carry and theyre wrong not to, but that doesnt change the fact that many people dont. So you need to accept that in these situations you are knowingly engaging in a play style that ruins the experience for others.

Take some responsibility for that and act accordingly.

This is why they should just soft reset and solo the dungeon. Personally my Epeen doesn't need that much stroking but over the years ive met some folks who just don't acknowledge that other human beings even exist...let alone play nicely with them.

 

[Zanasis]

so, what do you suggest I do to not piss people off but still go fast? spin kick once, when it takes 2-3 to kill a pack of mobs? I would play a 20 if I knew what was good, like how 11 fury is the best.

Solo the dungeon dude...sounds like you could if you tried.

 

[Shadevoid]

Just a heads up, when you're participating in a social activity, the rational thing to do is not engage in antisocial behavior.

The irrational and emotional response is "screw everyone else I'm gonna do what I want, they can leave if they don't like it"

It isnt antisocial. The rational thing is "i'm gonna play the game the way that seems fit unless people tell me something" - or kick silently which is annoying but still understable.

...The group's majority preference get revealed to you through being V2K'd out of the instance group...
If people are kicking you over and over, you have to be stupid to not change your behaviour or strategy. ...

Thats exactly why i'm following the group even if they wanna do weirdest routes possible and skip bosses I need. At the end of the day I need this group.

Like I said before I have only two problems with this situation:
-absolutely unnecessary moral aspect than constanly being dragged out - it is getting me slightly mad, but talking about it pointless anyway, so I've accepted it;
-using report function on a whim.
The fact that people completely forgot about it (or even agree with it) in order to get together and condescendingly critize the guy on his absolutely harmless misstep, that already made him adjust his playstyle, is blowing my mind.