Take it up with Blizzard, not me.

[DoogieTwink]

While true, Blizzard is not shy about swinging the nerf bat when the system annoys a large enough base of paying customers. Saying that you're just doing what the system allows you to do is tantamount to asking Blizzard to change the system. Given how overly broad their fixes tend to be, that might not be the best long-term strategy.

also true. however, blizzard should fix their game so it's not exploitative. I have a lot of fun on my twink, especially compared to my lvl 80 characters, but if I have to lose the ability to twink to get a better game, so be it. I highly doubt their fresh interns could figure that out though, since they layoff so many and so often they never keep the staff long enough to figure things out lol

 

[Shadevoid]

And as a twink, you are actively attempting (and succeeding) in not playing cooperatively with your peers.

I'm sorry, friend, but i have to strongly disagree with such ridiculous sentiment.
I'll admit that some TOS points are vague and require players to make a moral decision: do they want to engage in some grey area activities or stay clear
But in terms of twinking - this is "the game", you do not subjecting people to anything, they choose to play "the broken game".
Most twinks powers are obtained in a natural way. Thats just how it is.
And the idea that somehow after few years of absurdly unbalanced scaling (in a ways that do not make even a shadow of sense) the fault magically lies at twinks - is delusion, and quite disturbing one.

As long as people do their "job" (holding aggro, doing damage, healing) at the dungeon - it is fine.
If some are either too bad at their role, or, apparantely, too good at it, then group should adjust by getting together or getting apart. This is where their "agency" come to play - not preemtively by taking the blame for obvious game flaws.

PS: if you getting kicked cause the group dont like to play the way you want - its also totally understandable. Even when it aint really make sense to you personally (speaking as a rogue who been kicked from Durnholde - just cuz i think its fun to do fast and stealthy bombs setup)

 

[BANKONE]

sorta like 29s did to get 20s into their bracket.

Can we take some time to unpack this a little bit more please?

 

[DoogieTwink]

I'm sorry, friend, but i have to strongly disagree with such ridiculous sentiment.
I'll admit that some TOS points are vague and require players to make a moral decision: do they want to engage in some grey area activities or stay clear
But in terms of twinking - this is "the game", you do not subjecting people to anything, they choose to play "the broken game".
Most twinks powers are obtained in a natural way. Thats just how it is.
And the idea that somehow after few years of absurdly unbalanced scaling (in a ways that do not make even a shadow of sense) the fault magically lies at twinks - is delusion, and quite disturbing one.

As long as people do their "job" (holding aggro, doing damage, healing) at the dungeon - it is fine.
If some are either too bad at their role, or, apparantely, too good at it, then group should adjust by getting together or getting apart. This is where their "agency" come to play - not preemtively by taking the blame for obvious game flaws.

PS: if you getting kicked cause the group dont like to play the way you want - its also totally understandable. Even when it aint really make sense to you personally (speaking as a rogue who been kicked from Durnholde - just cuz i think its fun to do fast and stealthy bombs setup)

yea, i like this take the most. also, if they want to make queueing for TW dungeons solo-able, or just make it so i can turn the difficulty of a dungeon to TW when available and walk in, I would prefer that. but right now, the only way to far, TW badges is TW dungeons, which twinks are the best at.

 

[DoogieTwink]

Can we take some time to unpack this a little bit more please?

yea, i've never and will never advocate for exploiting multiplayer games (if you want to gameshark your pokemon game, go for it). but twinking is not exploiting the game. you are taking advantage of the system sure, but you're not using console commands that break TOS to play a game unintentionally.

 

[Boii]

so, what do you suggest I do to not piss people off but still go fast? spin kick once, when it takes 2-3 to kill a pack of mobs? I would play a 20 if I knew what was good, like how 11 fury is the best.

20s require more investment than 11s, some much more than others. My DK in frost tops all the dps charts except when i get paired with an 11 (the few 20s ive been with have not been twinks either) but it’s not like, 200% of the whole teams damage, more like 10-20% higher than the #2 damage dealer so i kinda fly under the radar but things die faster than normal. When im in blood, its much faster cause i do a little lower dps but i will grab 1/3 of the dungeon at a time and clear it all, but i usually use blood for soloing things

 

[cletus]

so, what do you suggest I do to not piss people off but still go fast? spin kick once, when it takes 2-3 to kill a pack of mobs? I would play a 20 if I knew what was good, like how 11 fury is the best.

One of:

1. Run your own 5-man with F2P/Vet accounts filling out the other 3 spots
2. Resetting an instance repeatedly so you can 2-man it; or
3. You have to follow the Tank Code because you are the tank.

Anyone who has played as a tank in PUGs knows that people are generally useless. They are completely incapable of walking anywhere without aggoring everything. Theyu sure as hell can't hug a wall to avoid aggoring a pack. As such, if you're going fast you simply have to pull way more than is strictly necessary because otherwise you're going to have a bad time.

This sort of thing happened in Remix too. Some people would get so far ahead that the other people wouldn't even get credit for the dungeon. That is unacceptable. In some places you can have someone die and there's no res soo you simply have to wait for other people to catch up. Azjol'Nerub is a good example. You wait.

You wanting to go as fast as possible doesn't mean you get to ruin the experience of everyone else there. Leaving people to die and people missing out on boss or dungeon credit would be an auto vote to kick from me too.

 

[Chops]

yea, i like this take the most. also, if they want to make queueing for TW dungeons solo-able, or just make it so i can turn the difficulty of a dungeon to TW when available and walk in, I would prefer that. but right now, the only way to far, TW badges is TW dungeons, which twinks are the best at.

What they're going to end up actually doing is (long shot) fixing the scaling or (more likely, it seems) nerfing your ilvl into the ground. Maybe some combination of the two. The most obvious fix is to simply revert timewalking scaling to how it existed before the anniversary event. They have no motive to enhance or encourage your playstyle, but a number of motives to just nuke it and move on

Take a lesson from a real old twink here. You're going to "but you let me do it!" yourself into oblivion. Brackets do this to themselves constantly. Whether its 19 premades farming HKs until they killed their own bracket, 20s farming levelers until they got put in xp-off ques, or old timewalking twinks getting enchants and gems nerfed into the dirt, its all because a small group of people felt entitled to break the game, other peoples experiences be damned.

Death, taxes and twinks never fucking learning

 

[Berlin]

I'm just playing the game as intended /shrug

You're not cheating. You're not exploiting or scripting. You're capitalizing Blizzard's own scaling issues at low levels that they have had years to fix but haven't done so. You don't deserve to be banned and won't be. I'm a firm believer that people should be able to play the game how they want to play it.

That being said, if we're being honest here, the welcome has worn out with a large portion of the regular retail crowd. 10/11 twinking is mainstream now(the GD forums and interactions in dungeons are a testiment to this). The wow factor of a low level two shotting everything in its path it is pretty much over. Nearly everyone has encountered them and many have created their twinks own to farm more efficiently. Now that the grindfest of the anniversary is over, the people that are queueing timewalking are more annoyed by you than they are grateful.

Players who want to level quickly and get TW currency are going to love you. Players who want to actually use their character in dungeons are going to be annoyed by you. It's really that simple.

Again, play the game how you want, but don't expect to be treated warmly by everyone. It certainly isn't playing the game how it's intended to be played. Twinking in its nature is an alternate playstyle that traditionally isn't popular with the regular playerbase.

My suggestion? Try 20's or 30's. You'll feel powerful but won't completely destroy everything in front of you. My 30 warrior does 60% of the groups' damage on average and never causes any problems with groups. He hits hard but not hard enough where other group members feel like they aren't pitching in. It's a nice balance IMO.

 

[cletus]

That being said, if we're being honest here, the welcome has worn out with a large portion of the regular retail crowd. 10/11 twinking is mainstream now(the GD forums and interactions in dungeons are a testiment to this). The wow factor of a low level two shotting everything in its path it is pretty much over. Nearly everyone has encountered them and many have created their twinks own to farm more efficiently. Now that the grindfest of the anniversary is over, the people that are queueing timewalking are more annoyed by you than they are grateful.

I strongly argue you should be considerate of other players in situation slike this. They're paying to play the game too and, if you really want to avoid other players, there are options (eg instance re-use, 5-manning).

But let's not get caught up in our bubble. The idea that twinks have worn out their welcome with a "large portion" of the regular retail crowd isn't even close to the truth. There is a lot of complainers online but you should never forget that people who talk about WoW on forums is already a tiny percentage of the player base.

Blizzard makes this mistake all the time: they make balancing decisions based on who makes the most noise on forums and Twitter when only 5% (maybe 10%) of players engage in WoW content online in any form.

Like I've never encountered anyone mad that I was twinking. At all. I had someone think I'm a bot because I didn't talk back when I was really just watching Netflix while mashing WW. But people being actually mad? You'll only get that if people are dying, having a bad time and/or missing out on boss or dungeon credit becuase you, as an OP twink, are being completely inconsiderate. Even that is incredibly rare.

 

[Berlin]

But let's not get caught up in our bubble. The idea that twinks have worn out their welcome with a "large portion" of the regular retail crowd isn't even close to the truth. There is a lot of complainers online but you should never forget that people who talk about WoW on forums is already a tiny percentage of the player base.

I understand where you're coming from but I'll just say this again:

Players who want to level quickly and get TW currency are going to love you. Players who want to actually use their character in dungeons are going to be annoyed by you. It's really that simple.

When someone is in a group with a 10/11, they don't need to play the game because they're capable of soloing most dungeons in under 7 minutes. Everyone else is just along for the ride. This is fantastic for people who want to level up quickly or want to save time.

It defeats the purpose for everybody else who actually wants to heal or deal damage, though. I think we need to respect that. That's all I'm saying.

Ultimately, the onus falls on Blizzard. I don't blame anyone for playing them. 10's have existed for years in the regular dungeon queues and nobody really cared because they were rare enough they didn't affect the average player base on a large scale.

 

[shanker]

Can we take some time to unpack this a little bit more please?

29 twinks used high level mains on wow forums to complain and site armories of 20s as a unfair advantage to levelers. ironically were using various exploits for several expacs to get into leveling BGs. they even linked their wow forum complaint thread on this forum. changes to 20s did not miraculously happen on DF prepatch. after legion (template merged BGs) there was a war between 20s xpon and 29s xpoff, 29s lost at start of BFA, 29s lost in SL, (both f2P/vet stayed xpon BGs) 29s finally won on DF and 20s were now considered XPoff.

warband bank being cut off could have been exploits? could also be from subbed players seeing players 20 and below much stronger due to the SL gems, 3 gem neck, 2 gems rings etc. being obtained with much more ease? biggest exploit of warband from what i saw documented was the reputation exploit which involved high level players that were top raiders edging for every percent on gear, crafted stuff etc

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/found-exploit-in-warband-banks/1908759 here is obviously a paid player, reporting that his non active account with a 20 can move stuff into his paid account as a exploit. i wonder if he moved them back so he could not use the items? this smells like a paid twink on a agenda against F2P and vets, not sure if there were other hidden agenda threads or reports like this? like the 20 vs 29 war it worked

owned core site, some of the posters here like to post there, the site is known for use of mechanics, exploits, hacks, etc. alot of stuff from owned core gets reported to blizzard. people even pay a sub to get access to the elite stuff, so they can report that

youtube, twitch etc also brings negative attention, last expac there was some comments by high profile wow influencers concerning the WOD gear, low levels, and ooze.

 

[toskosa]

The only thing you can really do is not come off as a prick, explain that you are just here for tw badges and this is the most efficient method. If you get kicked you get kicked no biggie tbh. Just dont act shocked when blizzard nerfs twinks over this because you thought it was "intended" lol

 

[BoatsAndHoes]

I've only gotten hate 1 time but not to this level.
Say hello when you enter, if theres any RP by NPCs during the run try to spark up a conversation.
Keep in mind they generally dont talk to us because they are too busy sprinting to keep up.
Just show that youre human and the vast majority of the time they are in a rush to queue for the next one because they want you to accept a role and be there to carry a few more.
Edit to add: Slow down just a hair. Nuke a pack, then run to the next pack, but pulling the whole zone as you run to the last boss thats just a shit thing to do.

 

[Chops]

sorta like 29s did to get 20s into their bracket.

29 twinks used high level mains on wow forums to complain and site armories of 20s as a unfair advantage to levelers. ironically were using various exploits for several expacs to get into leveling BGs. they even linked their wow forum complaint thread on this forum. changes to 20s did not miraculously happen on DF prepatch. after legion (template merged BGs) there was a war between 20s xpon and 29s xpoff, 29s lost at start of BFA, 29s lost in SL, (both f2P/vet stayed xpon BGs) 29s finally won on DF and 20s were now considered XPoff.

warband bank being cut off could have been exploits? could also be from subbed players seeing players 20 and below much stronger due to the SL gems, 3 gem neck, 2 gems rings etc. being obtained with much more ease? biggest exploit of warband from what i saw documented was the reputation exploit which involved high level players that were top raiders edging for every percent on gear, crafted stuff etc

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/found-exploit-in-warband-banks/1908759 here is obviously a paid player, reporting that his non active account with a 20 can move stuff into his paid account as a exploit. i wonder if he moved them back so he could not use the items? this smells like a paid twink on a agenda against F2P and vets, not sure if there were other hidden agenda threads or reports like this? like the 20 vs 29 war it worked

owned core site, some of the posters here like to post there, the site is known for use of mechanics, exploits, hacks, etc. alot of stuff from owned core gets reported to blizzard. people even pay a sub to get access to the elite stuff, so they can report that

youtube, twitch etc also brings negative attention, last expac there was some comments by high profile wow influencers concerning the WOD gear, low levels, and ooze.

this is just abject paranoia lol

 

[Chops]

twinking is less scummy than endgame / mythic / end of expansion gearing (where those players have an insane advantage over anyone with a life.

end game isnt scummy because people with more time have better gear. Thats just the way the games designed. End game is scummy because its P2W

The only morally pure WoW experience is F2P

 

[Robo]

end game isnt scummy because people with more time have better gear. Thats just the way the games designed. End game is scummy because its P2W

The only morally pure WoW experience is F2P

I kinda deleted it because I remembered f2p face levelers (at least did). Haven't been in that bracket for a while now so idk. But I agree. Endgame PvP has been a turn-off for me since WoD. I do think they can make heirlooms stronger like they used to be in cata/mop and nerf gems, that way levelers are on an more even playing field.

 

[Chops]

that way levelers are on an more even playing field.

I might consider a serious return if they brought back Legion templates. Looking back on it, that was the answer and Im sad they moved away from it.

 

[Berlin]

this is just abject paranoia lol

Everyone get in here, Queue-Anon just dropped

 

[orcgazmatron]

end game isnt scummy because people with more time have better gear. Thats just the way the games designed. End game is scummy because its P2W

The only morally pure WoW experience is F2P

More than anything, at this time & with respect to the way the game is these days,
it seems to me that for Twinking to be be great moving forward
We will have to make content for ourselves
Wargames & Arenas with other twinks, setting up world events & working together via in-game communities is the way.
Not unlike how that HC guys claimed Bloodsail Buccaneers on Classic era & just played they way they wanted to.
Maybe we should all pick the most desolate backwater RP server & just make it our own Twink realm?!