Take it up with Blizzard, not me.

[BANKONE]

29 twinks used high level mains on wow forums to complain and site armories of 20s as a unfair advantage to levelers. ironically were using various exploits for several expacs to get into leveling BGs. they even linked their wow forum complaint thread on this forum. changes to 20s did not miraculously happen on DF prepatch. after legion (template merged BGs) there was a war between 20s xpon and 29s xpoff, 29s lost at start of BFA, 29s lost in SL, (both f2P/vet stayed xpon BGs) 29s finally won on DF and 20s were now considered XPoff.

I am an ex 19 and OG 20 who hates these post-SL squish 29s probably more than anybody on this site, yet I am inclined to agree with @Chops

Unless you or others can provide links to said threads that would correlate to the DF change to xpoff 20s, it sounds like dramatic effect to say that there was some organized community effort conspiracy to eliminate starter edition PvP.

It’s much more likely that the INCESSANT 8-10 man hunter fotm premades ran by at least NA 20s during SL was the tipping point for blizz to take action.


twinks bone their own

 

[Selaya]

oh look, we've got a volunteer.
thanks, we'll all blame you when the fun police goes round to confiscate our toys.
thanks. thanks for nothing.

 

[Life]

More than anything, at this time & with respect to the way the game is these days,
it seems to me that for Twinking to be be great moving forward
We will have to make content for ourselves
Wargames & Arenas with other twinks, setting up world events & working together via in-game communities is the way.
Not unlike how that HC guys claimed Bloodsail Buccaneers on Classic era & just played they way they wanted to.
Maybe we should all pick the most desolate backwater RP server & just make it our own Twink realm?!

i host 4-6 events for twinks weekly!

 

[SPQR]

I'm just playing the game as intended /shrug

Why would anyone here have a problem with you?
You try to swim with sharks and surprised your dick is ripped off.

To me it looks like you just another one x2 lifesteal who got inspired by another x2 lifesteal you just seen recently and want copy cat a " lifesteal " expirience of others to the top of dps meter for personal erection.

• 10s do not need gear. all you need is x2 looms with enchant.
• If it is TW badges you care about then you should of made x50 alts some years ago when anniversary use to send out 500 badges & collect them over some years to not ever think about it again by this point.
• if it is a boost you are doing then pugs are not the place for it in general and if you do it there bound to be this sort of reaction. Nothing special.
• If this is some kind of middle finger to the game or a system - it wont help. You won't defeat evil by becoming it.

Ask yourself why you doing this in the first place and if you able to answer that then anything else should not matter to you.

• Never que as dps if you going to tank.
• Never que as healer if you going to tank.
• Never mindlessly run to endboss like a bot.
• Pay attention to aggro.
• Pay attention where your party at.
• Ask people if they wish to do side bosses or quests.
• Pull 3-5 packs and stand still while rest catch up and do some damage.

Do that and 99.9% of time you wont have issues.
Sure i been auto banned/unbanned by system for running 10s.
What's the fuss about a picking a fight vs leveler who won't even comprehend the concept what you are doing.

Place yourself in his position and see how degen it looks.

I am an ex 19 and OG 20 who hates these post-SL squish 29s probably more than anybody on this site, yet I am inclined to agree with @Chops

Unless you or others can provide links to said threads that would correlate to the DF change to xpoff 20s, it sounds like dramatic effect to say that there was some organized community effort conspiracy to eliminate starter edition PvP.

It’s much more likely that the INCESSANT 8-10 man hunter fotm premades ran by at least NA 20s during SL was the tipping point for blizz to take action.


twinks bone their own

Just use search filter on bliz forum or even here and you are bound to find bias idiots pedaling "this is our bracket" "we been here first before you" " f2p abuse " and " won't somebody think of levelers " all while having alts in twink guild.

Sure there is no single illuminati deepstate 29s.
But they are too stupid for that in general.
There is however a Dipshitstate 29s.

Very same dipshits who went 24s from 19s first time 20s came around with every single advantage in a book.
Who ditched " i been 24 since alpha " to go 29 first thing when it was possible.
Who had premade groups for month in cata just to gy farm 20s.
Who cried "oh but why i can't log my account unsubbed while f2ps can".
Who went down to decked out 20s when 29s got locked out and couldn't get any games.
Same bunch on very same vomit of a page here who called themselves twinks while bragging about bug reporting to blizzard every single thing that brought any sort of advantage to 20s. Be that a tmog script, busted ilevels from lfd bags because "they cba to grind it", missed frag belt or the legion pre expansion gear.
To more modern iteration of " i am playing 29 to balance it out " while selfishly 1 taping any 20 in sight.

Just because you don't see single place where general idea of it is concentrated (and there was some bnet 29s exclusive grps out there a while back) does not change the fact that the movement to undermine any accomplishment 20s aim at exists.

People just can't get over the fact that you can play it for free and have better time than they.
All because guess what - your attention span is longer than tik tok video.

Thus they must go out of their way to sit in half dead que for 8+ hrs daily on a 29 just to make a point.
So yea mate, there is a dipshitstate 24/29s.

More than anything, at this time & with respect to the way the game is these days,
it seems to me that for Twinking to be be great moving forward
We will have to make content for ourselves
Wargames & Arenas with other twinks, setting up world events & working together via in-game communities is the way.
Not unlike how that HC guys claimed Bloodsail Buccaneers on Classic era & just played they way they wanted to.
Maybe we should all pick the most desolate backwater RP server & just make it our own Twink realm?!

Look in to Azeroth Core project.
You can have wsg (and more) vs bots run locally. On top of everything else that access to GM commands can give you.
If your goal is competitive games and not go out of your way to prove a point of how bad bots/solo play is - you can have far more entertaining bgs than most of what retail pvp can or could offer you over many expansions.

 

[Bakedaflol]

Theres a whole video i linked that you could watch that, while focused on pvp, is applicable to this situation.

But 14 minutes of me rambling is probably a bit much so here's the short of it: All MMOs (and most online games) are a cooperative experience. If you can but wont play cooperatively with your peers to create an enjoyable experience for everyone, thats a pretty scummy move. And as a twink, you are actively attempting (and succeeding) in not playing cooperatively with your peers.

You're breaking the game, on purpose, and subjecting other people to a broken game. Don't say "but blizzard allows it!" to dismiss your own agency. "Access is not permission" as the saying goes.

And sure, some people enjoy the carry. But some people really dont. Logging on for your scarce couple hours of free time after work, only to be subjected to some goofball hero-pulling a whole dungeon so you basically just get to play a walking simulator isnt all that fun after the novelty wears off.

As twinks, we need to recognize this fact. You can argue that people *should* enjoy the free carry and theyre wrong not to, but that doesnt change the fact that many people dont. So you need to accept that in these situations you are knowingly engaging in a play style that ruins the experience for others.

Take some responsibility for that and act accordingly.

I agree wholeheartedly. It's okay to have your cake, and eat it too! It eez what it eez

 

[DoogieTwink]

Why would anyone here have a problem with you?
You try to swim with sharks and surprised your dick is ripped off.

To me it looks like you just another one x2 lifesteal who got inspired by another x2 lifesteal you just seen recently and want copy cat a " lifesteal " expirience of others to the top of dps meter for personal erection.

• 10s do not need gear. all you need is x2 looms with enchant.
• If it is TW badges you care about then you should of made x50 alts some years ago when anniversary use to send out 500 badges & collect them over some years to not ever think about it again by this point.
• if it is a boost you are doing then pugs are not the place for it in general and if you do it there bound to be this sort of reaction. Nothing special.
• If this is some kind of middle finger to the game or a system - it wont help. You won't defeat evil by becoming it.

My twink is in my signature. He's a fully decked out Monk aside from getting 2x mechagon rings. I mostly do it cause it's fun to go fast and building up TW badges in case i want them for something.
This was my first complaint. it was just funny how mad they got just cause I was playing the game.

Ask yourself why you doing this in the first place and if you able to answer that then anything else should not matter to you.

• Never que as dps if you going to tank.
• Never que as healer if you going to tank.
• Never mindlessly run to endboss like a bot.
• Pay attention to aggro.
• Pay attention where your party at.
• Ask people if they wish to do side bosses or quests.
• Pull 3-5 packs and stand still while rest catch up and do some damage.

Do that and 99.9% of time you wont have issues.
Sure i been auto banned/unbanned by system for running 10s.
What's the fuss about a picking a fight vs leveler who won't even comprehend the concept what you are doing.

Place yourself in his position and see how degen it looks.

I do and did all that lol still mad

 

[toskosa]

I might consider a serious return if they brought back Legion templates. Looking back on it, that was the answer and Im sad they moved away from it.

I have been thinking about this a bit recently and honestly the most fun I have had at 20 was during legion templates.
It took like 30 minutes to get competitive gear so it was insanely easy to jump into. Levelers were not completely helpless either so ques were fast.

Sure some classes/specs were overtuned but when has that not been the case? Honestly though I would also settle for wod gear scalling as well

 

[shanker]

I am an ex 19 and OG 20 who hates these post-SL squish 29s probably more than anybody on this site, yet I am inclined to agree with @Chops

Unless you or others can provide links to said threads that would correlate to the DF change to xpoff 20s, it sounds like dramatic effect to say that there was some organized community effort conspiracy to eliminate starter edition PvP.

It’s much more likely that the INCESSANT 8-10 man hunter fotm premades ran by at least NA 20s during SL was the tipping point for blizz to take action.


twinks bone their own

i never said anything about a plan to eliminate starter edition PvP. players (even some on this forum) did do efforts and organize to move F2P and status of brackets, etc. i could easily play college woke teacher line and declare you need to provide SS of all the BGs that show 8-10 hunters in a BG, along with the armories of the said players. i find it more INCESSANT that people forget, are in denial, etc. in SL did not experience the BGs comps you claim, however i did experience huge hunter comps in BC, WOTLK and somewhat in CATA.

this twink player backstabbing is not new
alot of ex-19s were the ones that got blizzard to kick 19 F2P out of the bracket, and the xpoff option removed in CATA, i brought this up not to long ago and posters said this never happened, 19F2P was not a thing, even one who claimed from day one they played F2P in CATA. then i linked the thread with posts from F2P 19s, there was also talk of having XP auto turned on when you logged in, and option to turn off XP was removed from F2P 19s.

summary
Cata 19s vs F2P19s, F2P lost ability to 19 xpoff
BFA Xpon F2P20/Vet20 vs XPoff 29s, 29s lost, most wrote this off a blizzard bug and not reverting BGs after legion
SL repeat of BFA
DF Xpon F2P20/Vet20 vs XPoff 29s, 29s won

 

[Chops]

players (even some on this forum) did do efforts and organize to move F2P and status of brackets, etc.

its very funny that one guy made an obvious troll thread on the blizz forums about F2Ps and the story has become that there was a concerted campaign by a population of twinks from one bracket to screw over another and (AND!) that blizzard fucking listened to them lol

 

[Kaxle]

Reminder 29s couldn't even get 2 people to sign up for an arena tournament. They were not organizing any kind of campaign that would garner attention from Blizz. Lets consider the far more likely scenario: The massive leveler population complained enough to get the F2Ps and Vets sent into timeout

 

[Robo]

I might consider a serious return if they brought back Legion templates. Looking back on it, that was the answer and Im sad they moved away from it.

At low level it made gameplay very stale considering the low secondaries and minimal selection of abilities. But at max level it was nice because secondaries I believe were higher, more class buffs, more abilities, artifact buffs, etc.

 

[Merlin]

it's kinda silly cause I get a lot of compliments and people saying stuff like "I wanna run with this guy" cause they enjoy the experience i've created in that moment.

It's not so much that they enjoy the experience, but rather that 99% of players in random dungeons are primarily there for fast leveling. Anything that speeds up their progress is usually welcomed. So, most of the time, the grouping benefits everyone: one player there farming gear, the other four leveling. That said, there are players in random dungeons for reasons other than these two, but they are in the minority, which gives you the idea that "majority" of the people like to be carried

 

[Chops]

Reminder 29s couldn't even get 2 people to sign up for an arena tournament.

did @Ayden ever get paid, btw?

At low level it made gameplay very stale considering the low secondaries and minimal selection of abilities.

I actually really enjoyed it, but to each their own

 

[toskosa]

I am sure that the triple hunter double disc premades gy farming levelers for 8-9 hours a day had no impact on blizzard moving f2p/vet to xpoff.

 

[obtvso]

you are knowingly engaging in a play style that ruins the experience for others

That could be said about a lot of different 'legit' play styles though.
I had people get mad at me for going too fast but also the opposite, I had people get mad at me for stopping to read fluff but also for not waiting when someone was lagging behind for doing the same, etc. And not just while twinking, btw.
So, where does the line get drawn?

I understand what you are trying to say, mind you. I just don't like the implication that there is an objectively correct play style even if I don't actually agree with Doogie's atittude towards the other player.

 

[Zly]

Chops said:
you are knowingly engaging in a play style that ruins the experience for others

I really have a hard time believing we are ruining the experience of others unless your worried about maybe .1% of the playerbase that actually think timewalking is an endgame activity which it isn't. Timewalking is a chore and a time sink for anyone that does any kind of actual endgame content. For leveling it's just a way to move the bar.
I haven't had anyone complain in my runs, almost always they instant queue to try to get me to do more, not saying it doesn't happen. I have had far more irate people in m+ runs, just goes to show you are never going to make everyone happy.

 

[Chops]

That could be said about a lot of different 'legit' play styles though.
I had people get mad at me for going too fast but also the opposite, I had people get mad at me for stopping to read fluff but also for not waiting when someone was lagging behind for doing the same, etc. And not just while twinking, btw.
So, where does the line get drawn?

I understand what you are trying to say, mind you. I just don't like the implication that there is an objectively correct play style even if I don't actually agree with Doogie's atittude towards the other player.

When you are playing an MMORPG, you are participating in a cooperative game experience with other people. If you're in a guild, say, that is committed to speed running dungeons then you are playing poorly with others if you stop to participate in the fluff. If you're in an RP guild, though, you are wrong if you're blitzing through content without pausing for fluff and RP.

Context absolutely matters, as neither of these approaches are objectively THE right way or wrong way to play. They are an agreed upon set of expectations, standards and goals for different groups of people.

When you enter the RDF, you are entering a temporary agreement with other people around expectations, standards and goals. Not respecting that agreement (however temporary and fleeting it may be!) is objectively wrong. You're being a dick. The trick is reading the room and understanding what that groups goals/expectations are. Maybe theyre down to let you blitz the content. Cool. Carry on. But maybe theyre not. In which case its up to you to adjust your behavior.

"ah but why is it on me to adjust my behavior and not them!?" you cry. Because youre the one with the power to decide. You can go at any pace between 0 and 100mph, the levelers can only go as high as 30mph. If theyre cool with catching a ride, you can do that. If they want to go 30mph, you can also do that. but if you go 100mph and the rest of the group doesnt want to, they dont have the option of doing it anyway. Youre being a dick.

Basically, treating other people as nothing but que filler for your dungeon soloing expeditions isnt always a negative experience for other people. Often, they're fine with it. But it has the potential to be a negative experience, and refusing to accept that possibility and adjust accordingly (at no real cost to you, btw) is objectively wrong within the expected context of the genre of game youre currently playing

 

[Kowardly]

I didn't realize it was a video link mb. i'll watch it now

it's kinda silly cause I get a lot of compliments and people saying stuff like "I wanna run with this guy" cause they enjoy the experience i've created in that moment. Some people just hate fun, i think.

there's also a saying that goes something like: a system acts as intended, whether you intend it to or not. basically, no matter how many times you say "I intend for the system to work this way", however the system acts is the true intention. like irl, you can say PPE loans where to help small businesses during COVID, but actually the system allowed already rich people to get richer. very similar type of situation here.

you'd think if someone needs to do their 5 dungeon quest and only has like an hour or 2 that they'd appreciate the fast carry. also /shrug

that makes sense and will do. it's just silly getting it in chat was all.

I don't think it's that they hate fun but like Chops kinda said. Its really cool to be carried. The first 9 times. Thennnn you kinda wanna hit your buttons. You kinda wanna hit the new cooldown you got. You kinda wanna use the trinket you got. You dont really wanna go from 24-30 without hitting any real abilities or be locked out of boss rooms for being too slow. And that's not exactly an experience we should expect people to be grateful for, or think is fun. Cause its not. Im hypocritical tbh. I love twinking. I hate not hitting things though. So I can understand their feeling. This normally has never been as much of an issue but I think with the anniversary event you have to keep in mind everyone and their mother was making 11 furys. So the novelty of the first X carries wears off really quick for people currently. As it was like every other dungeon it felt like.

Like mentioned we just have to understand it does break the game design, even if allowed, and it isn't fun for everyone. It's fine to twink, it's allowed, theres no real exploiting, it's not bannable. And some will be very appreciative. But we also can't sit and be pretentious and act like they should be on their knees thanking us for allowing them the opportunity to not play / learn their class or try out new spells and just hold W, because we saved them a bit of time in an already stupid fast era of leveling.

In terms of not angering people, I just do my best that I pull more like M+ I pull big but I have stop / group points that I keep in mind so that people can catch up, get a cast or two off, loot easier etc. And just make sure I wait for everyone in the boss rooms. Another thing you could try that I do is to twink at different levels or try different / non min maxed builds if you enjoy the LFG runs. Twinking at 15 or 20 opens up a lot more loot combinations with stuff like Durnholde Escape and Crypts and Mana tombs I believe, as well as lets you use some better enchants and still be op and fast without one shotting packs and a lot of the gear acquisition is the same, DF neck, BC gear, 2 socket rings. Or instead of gearing for damage gear for stam or armor or dodge or parry or something silly. Idk those are just things I like to do, I have like 2-3 actual mostly BIS 10/11s and most of my twinks are like 15 or 20 with some at like 30 or 59 just testing something goofy, like trying to get a pally with 100% crit during wings, or a 15 VDH stacking dodge, how much haste is possible on a 25 enh shaman.
Idk thats the twinking I guess I enjoy but its far less "harmful" in terms of ruining and destroying others gameplay while still getting that sensation of extreme optimization.

 

[Zly]

I do somewhat agree with what you are saying, and i do ask up front if it's ok if we go fast. i just feel like complainers are going to complain and its a very small group that views tw as content. Our level 80 tanks pull timewalking exactly like we do they just don't have the dps we have so it takes longer. Are they also ruining peoples experience because they have spent countless hours gearing? I feel like people just see level 11, its not right that you should do more dps than anyone higher, i am mad. Not anything about ruining experience its just a violation of their expectation.

 

[Kaxle]

Our level 80 tanks pull timewalking exactly like we do they just don't have the dps we have so it takes longer. Are they also ruining peoples experience because they have spent countless hours gearing?

No because that longer time to kill is allowing the other members or the dungeon to actually play the game and hit their buttons. That is the crucial difference that you are ignoring in an attempt to downplay the issue