Swiftness Pots in 10v10s

Rofl, yeah im bringing this here after having a discussion (basically, me talking shit to a lot of people about it) on the Ruin forums (US) due to a guild listing them as "banned" in premades against their guild.



Simple question really, does the general twink population think that swiftness potions should be banned from premades (speaking as if this were as bad as magic dust was, nightmare seeds, crystals etc) when they are easily obtainable by both factions and easily dispelled.



I for one, think they should be allowed - for obvious reasons ("easily obtainable by both factions and easily dispelled.")



Anyone else care to share their opinions?
 
I don't think they're too much of a big deal, but personally I don't think they should be used. But it's kind of hard to regulate it as compared to someone wallhacking.
 
No Swiftness Pots?... Your kidding right...there isn't actually someone out there that beleives they are unfair is there?



Simply rediculous! Buy them, Make them, Stock them, Use them, and as always LOVE them! Ban them?...Has to be a joke...I think.
 
What makes wsg fun is the fact you can use all that stuff.



Speed pots arent hard to come by, everyone has access to them, i dont see what the problem is.
 
This has to be based around someone getting their big boy diapers in a knot because they keep losing to people with Swiftness Potions. I can see it now:



"Speed pots r banned cuz I can't farm them!! I only haz this 19 twinkz on dis srvr!"



Hacking or exploiting is bad, but using in-game items as they were intended to be used in a bracket where they are usable is perfectly fine. That kind of comment gets a big "gtfo" from me.
 
Lol someone who dropped like 10k gold on their twink probably got wrecked by a team using speed pots which lead to a massive qq session about something that's been in game since the beginning and used readily. I used to use them way back when I fc'd on my drood and we did pre-made bgs before cross-server even existed. No one had a problem with them then, in fact it lead to a lot of fun rivalry. I don't see how it should be any different these days. Too much qq from people who think they have "leet skillzzzz1111!!!!!" but don't ever want to prove it in a clutch situation.
 
Not a big deal either way. I'd happily do 10v10s where anything goes and just as happily do 10v10s where the consumable rules followed arena limitations.



If those guys would rather 10v10 you without consumables, you can beat them on the same terms, or crutch on pots they're not using. Your decision.



If you vs them without pots and they still won't vs you with pots, well, that's pretty weak and I wouldn't really care what rules they wanted to play by after that.
 
Kicks, the rule is negotiable in coherence with your guild's rules as previously stated. We already had the discussion with your guild earlier about this rule. You guys also had your own rules. We don't use fish feasts or outside world buffs either, so we didn't care about it. If you don't like a premade rule, take it up with Dots and we can discuss it over vent instead of making a childish scene on the forums. Your actions were not necessary and were destructive, rather than constructive.



The players you have supporting you on here I highly doubt have taken part in truly competitive 10v10s and that's fine. I don't care what's used in pugs or 8v5, 5v4, or even spontaneous 10v10 matches in WSG. Scheduled 10v10s, however, are a different animal.



You can not at one time elevate speed pots, then in the same sentence depress other consumables such as magic dust. Both of these consumables provide game-breaking changes; the only difference is that speed pots are more easily obtained. The ease of collection, however, is a misnomer; twinking is not about getting everything that is easy, otherwise people would not be getting AGM, etc. And it's true, speed pots can be easily dispelled, but on the other hand, magic dust can easily be trinketed out of. In this light, magic dust is just as legit as speed pots. As a result, rules in 10v10s almost always rule out use of certain items so that it does not come down to a game of who was bored enough to farm the most magic dust or apexis crystals.



I believe any twink worth their stuff will agree with me when I say that twinking is not to have an advantage over another player, it is to hit the gear cap and be on a level playing field with all other twinks in an arena where skill determines who wins, not the use of gear/consumables. I don't think any twink likes the idea of playing into the age-old stereotype that all twinks just like beating up on level 10s over and over. If I win simply due to gear/consumables/etc that my opponent did not necessarily have access to, I won't feel good about that win. I want my opponent to have a fair shake as well. I believe that Blizzard was following this same line of thinking when they banned use of potions in arenas.



I also take note that 'exploting' has been taken into account in this thread. While I do not support exploiting, I do support smart use of terrain. One can easily learn the terrain with practice. On the other hand, swiftness pots is simply having the ability to press a button. I'm not sure, maybe you like to roll with a bag full of speed pots for every premade you take part in. If that's how you roll, more power to you. I am certainly not interested in a deathmatch premade where the victor is whoever spent the most time farming materials.



As for the logicality of banning speed pots, they are banned with the same reasoning that other consumables are (i.e. apexis shards, magic dust). This is to ensure a level playing field.



Good day.
 
I don't see why magic dust should be banned either. If it's an issue of farming, and people want to farm for things that they feel would be advantageous to their team or winning, these things that in turn are easily countered, then there shouldn't be any reason why they should not be allowed to do so, and/or use them.



Playing by arena rules in a bg seems like you're trying to avoid the sporadic nature that can entail in pvp via use of consumables. I'm genuinely sick of seeing everything regulated per arena rules and ratings because of the influx of post-bc/wtolk players. Arena pvp and resilience has allowed many bad pvp'ers to gain an advantage over others either due to the crutch from resilience or constantly having a heal bitch with them. Frankly unless it's a premade situation, I don't see how that is skill worthy in the lower brackets.



Turning the rest of the unchanged nature of battlegrounds into a regulated arena setting seems like a blatant avoidance of the original point of battlegrounds, and that was to do everything possibly available to oneself to not only further the advancement of your team but eventually win. That does not exclude usage of items like magic dust or speed pots. I suppose if you want to be lazy and not farm for them, then sure whine about others using them. Next we'll be seeing people saying that usage of the regen hut and zerker buff in bgs should not be allowed, if that hasn't already been done. Hell, we might as well petition blizzard to take it out, because it could give one person an unfair advantage and they don't even have to spend time farming to gain it...
 
resilience has allowed many bad pvp'ers to gain an advantage over others either due to the crutch from resilience or constantly having a heal bitch with them.



lolwut



Replace the word resillience with the word consumables, it makes lots more sense that way.



Not that I have any problem with consumable abusers (there's a difference between occasional potting and doing it every cooldown alongside the large number of extra things not on the same cooldown) because they are usually pretty easy to kill.
 
I frown on speed pots, couldnt care less for health pots, chances are if you need to use a health pot its not going to do you any good anyway. Any idiot can down a speed potion every CD, 90% of speed potters are just plain bad players anyway.

If you cant play, and win or lose, enjoy the game with the skills readily available to your class, perhaps you shouldnt be playing at all.
 
Hamcake said:
lolwut



Replace the word resillience with the word consumables, it makes lots more sense that way.



Not that I have any problem with consumable abusers (there's a difference between occasional potting and doing it every cooldown alongside the large number of extra things not on the same cooldown) because they are usually pretty easy to kill.



yes lolwut... I used to duel people with max resil on my hunter when it first came out and they'd barely win. I was in pve gear because I never really had a chance to do arenas and farm consumables, and pve, and work, and balance many other things. When those players switched over to pve gear though, they lost duels in a heartbeat, because they crutched themselves on their ability to not be crit and/or take a lot less damage from crits. They didn't have any skill to back it up, it was gear based only, they were doing stupid things and most of them were also reliant on the fact that they'd normally have a heal bitch with them, ie a lot of 2s teams. Anyone that believes resil didn't ruin the pvp system clearly never played without it... I'm not arguing that consumables make you a good or a bad player, I'm arguing that they shouldn't be banned from premades because others don't want to go about stopping people when they do use them. Dispell speed pots, big deal, it's not that hard to do. If people want to farm for the mats and/or waste the gold on them, then dispell that shit and get on with it... Their waste of gold and it doesn't affect that much.
 
Painaid said:
You can not at one time elevate speed pots, then in the same sentence depress other consumables such as magic dust. Both of these consumables provide game-breaking changes; the only difference is that speed pots are more easily obtained. The ease of collection, however, is a misnomer; twinking is not about getting everything that is easy, otherwise people would not be getting AGM, etc. And it's true, speed pots can be easily dispelled, but on the other hand, magic dust can easily be trinketed out of. In this light, magic dust is just as legit as speed pots. As a result, rules in 10v10s almost always rule out use of certain items so that it does not come down to a game of who was bored enough to farm the most magic dust or apexis crystals.



I totally disagree and it sounds as if your guild was just to lazy or incapable of getting the consumables. I agree with consumables as long as its consumables that both sides are capable of getting. Most guilds play this way.
 
Maerduk said:
yes lolwut... I used to duel people with max resil on my hunter when it first came out and they'd barely win. I was in pve gear because I never really had a chance to do arenas and farm consumables, and pve, and work, and balance many other things. When those players switched over to pve gear though, they lost duels in a heartbeat, because they crutched themselves on their ability to not be crit and/or take a lot less damage from crits. They didn't have any skill to back it up, it was gear based only, they were doing stupid things and most of them were also reliant on the fact that they'd normally have a heal bitch with them, ie a lot of 2s teams. Anyone that believes resil didn't ruin the pvp system clearly never played without it... I'm not arguing that consumables make you a good or a bad player, I'm arguing that they shouldn't be banned from premades because others don't want to go about stopping people when they do use them. Dispell speed pots, big deal, it's not that hard to do. If people want to farm for the mats and/or waste the gold on them, then dispell that shit and get on with it... Their waste of gold and it doesn't affect that much.



Everyone's got an opinion dude. I for sure played for a long time before resil (hell even my bank alt is a senior sergeant) and I think resilience improved pvp. 60 pvp really had turned into a contest of who was quicker to pop their cooldowns.



That's the thing about opinions :)
 
Ymir said:
Everyone's got an opinion dude. I for sure played for a long time before resil (hell even my bank alt is a senior sergeant) and I think resilience improved pvp.



That's the thing about opinions :)



Well then props to you.
 
Painaid said:
Kicks, the rule is negotiable in coherence with your guild's rules as previously stated. We already had the discussion with your guild earlier about this rule. You guys also had your own rules. We don't use fish feasts or outside world buffs either, so we didn't care about it. If you don't like a premade rule, take it up with Dots and we can discuss it over vent instead of making a childish scene on the forums. Your actions were not necessary and were destructive, rather than constructive.



The players you have supporting you on here I highly doubt have taken part in truly competitive 10v10s and that's fine. I don't care what's used in pugs or 8v5, 5v4, or even spontaneous 10v10 matches in WSG. Scheduled 10v10s, however, are a different animal.



You can not at one time elevate speed pots, then in the same sentence depress other consumables such as magic dust. Both of these consumables provide game-breaking changes; the only difference is that speed pots are more easily obtained. The ease of collection, however, is a misnomer; twinking is not about getting everything that is easy, otherwise people would not be getting AGM, etc. And it's true, speed pots can be easily dispelled, but on the other hand, magic dust can easily be trinketed out of. In this light, magic dust is just as legit as speed pots. As a result, rules in 10v10s almost always rule out use of certain items so that it does not come down to a game of who was bored enough to farm the most magic dust or apexis crystals.



I believe any twink worth their stuff will agree with me when I say that twinking is not to have an advantage over another player, it is to hit the gear cap and be on a level playing field with all other twinks in an arena where skill determines who wins, not the use of gear/consumables. I don't think any twink likes the idea of playing into the age-old stereotype that all twinks just like beating up on level 10s over and over. If I win simply due to gear/consumables/etc that my opponent did not necessarily have access to, I won't feel good about that win. I want my opponent to have a fair shake as well. I believe that Blizzard was following this same line of thinking when they banned use of potions in arenas.



I also take note that 'exploting' has been taken into account in this thread. While I do not support exploiting, I do support smart use of terrain. One can easily learn the terrain with practice. On the other hand, swiftness pots is simply having the ability to press a button. I'm not sure, maybe you like to roll with a bag full of speed pots for every premade you take part in. If that's how you roll, more power to you. I am certainly not interested in a deathmatch premade where the victor is whoever spent the most time farming materials.



As for the logicality of banning speed pots, they are banned with the same reasoning that other consumables are (i.e. apexis shards, magic dust). This is to ensure a level playing field.



Good day.



Lol, okay - not bringing the "drama" of it to TI since it was gone over on the forums - I legitimately wanted other peoples opinions on it. I am new to ruin, and have played in Cyclone, Vengeance and Rampage (all of which never once mentioned banning swiftness pots). So i was wanting to find out what other people thought about it and whether or not it was Ruin exclusively, or even Prodigy exclusively.



I said how Magic Dust USED to be - It was what, 30 or 45 seconds. That's just ridiculous. Speed pots do not incapacitate a person either. Apexis shards and Nightmare Seeds were incredibly OP in comparison to Swiftness Pots also. Very bad to compare them as if they are 1:1. Also in regards to Magic Dust once again - so much harder to come by than doing dailies and buying swift pots (or in my case, farming Stranglekelp and selling to buy Swift post)



I really loved the way you whipped out the double speak while talking about exploiting. Call it what you want, it is TERRAIN EXPLOITING, and for the record, i also have no problem with it. Jumps are learnable just like Swift Pots are available for purchase. If your guild is going to play by the rules that "smart use of terrain" is legal; then why not swiftness pots? You press your spacebar, i hit Shift+G for my swift pot. WEEEEE





Anyways, I'd like to see what more people have to say - so far the general consensus is they are legal in most peoples eyes (just as i view it myself)
 

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